"The World Is Desperate for Vaccines and Israel Wants to Sell Them to a Luxury Cruise Line"

[LizzyBee23]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-covid-and-israel-country-wants-to-sell-vaccines-to-a-luxury-cruise-line-1.9790995

 

I know we spend a lot of time talking about potential headlines in an outbreak situation, just wanted to share one that illustrates the nature of the problem. This is unfair, particularly in the context of relative numbers, and especially considering we're talking about urgently injecting kids with the vaccine when they're at orders of magnitude less at risk than even the crew, but here is the headline all the same. 

[TXcruzer]

This really isn’t the appropriate place for this discussion. 

[smokeybandit]

Kind of a circular argument.  Because some countries are having a hard time getting a vaccine, they're mad that Israel may sell vaccines to a company whose employees are largely people from those countries that are having a hard time getting a vaccine.

[LizzyBee23]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I disagree. Public sentiment about cruise ships and cruise companies as expressed by a prominent newspaper in a country with an imminent startup seems relevant to me.

[LizzyBee23]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Kind of a circular argument.  Because some countries are having a hard time getting a vaccine, they're mad that Israel may sell vaccines to a company whose employees are largely people from those countries that are having a hard time getting a vaccine.

Couldn't agree more. Showcases that there is a hostility toward cruising that will not be tempered by reality.

[twangster]

No worries, it is relevant even if the blogger who wrote it doesn't have a position we agree with or like to see.  

Keep in mind the site is a revenue generating company seeking to gain subscribers and ad revenue.

Controversial blogs about cruise ships are nothing new.

[LizzyBee23]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

No worries, it is relevant even if the blogger who wrote it doesn't have a position we agree with or like to see.  

Keep in mind the site is a revenue generating company seeking to gain subscribers and ad revenue.

Controversial blogs about cruise ships are nothing new.

I wish it were just a blog, but it's in Haaretz's news section underneath a shared byline.

[twangster]

8 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

I wish it were just a blog, but it's in Haaretz's news section underneath a shared byline.

Blogger, reporter, jerk with a keyboard.  All the same these days.

A company seeking money.  

[JeffB]

Vaccination equity is a huge deal right now. The WHO is pushing it hard. Western governments are embracing solutions for the purpose of improving their global standing. Those that aren't are getting hammered by Putin and XI.

But Twangster is right in his post above. This kind of journalism, blogging or reporting  isn't going to disrupt a start-up of cruising from Haifa between RCL and the Israeli Health Ministry. 

What might do that is the threat of a rocket attack or other terrorist undertaking by Hamas. People, especially Jews, enjoying travel and leisure while Arabs, especially Palestinians, are suffering make a nice terrorist target.

[LizzyBee23]

1 hour ago, JeffB said:

Vaccination equity is a huge deal right now. 

Couldn't agree more... That's why headlines like this targeting the crew of several thousand misses the mark when the west is about to start vaccinating adolescents by the millions before the vulnerable in neighboring countries (let alone the rest of the world).

[JeffB]

32 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

the west is about to start vaccinating adolescents by the millions before the vulnerable in neighboring countries (let alone the rest of the world).

I don't think it's that straight forward. Vaccine inequity has a very large number of underlying causes. I'm loath to make it out as the rich West countries not serving the rest of the poor, and often exploited for its cheap labor, underdeveloped third world. Vaccines are available, likely pretty close to get the word's entire population vaccinated to some level by the end of this year. COVAX is a miserable failure for reasons that have nothing to do with not enough money or not enough vaccines. This isn't the place to discuss this but trust me on this.

The principle problem is one of distribution via reliable infrastructure. You can't build that overnight. Corruption in countries where aid gets diverted into the pockets of government officials is also pretty high up on the list of reasons for vaccine inequity. Not far behind that is the sheer ineptitude of federal governments. India's Modi administration is a good example.

My point is that western democracies that can afford to take care of their own citizens while at the same time have abundance may be able and willing to help citizens of other countries not as fortunate. But there are significant obstacles to getting aid, in this case vaccines, that have nothing to do with typical arguments that cast the problem as rich versus poor, greed versus need and all those arguments entail.  

 

[twangster]

8 minutes ago, JeffB said:

I don't think it's that straight forward. Vaccine inequity has a very large number of underlying causes. I'm loath to make it out as the rich West countries not serving the rest of the poor, and often exploited for its cheap labor, underdeveloped third world. Vaccines are available, likely pretty close to get the word's entire population vaccinated to some level by the end of this year. COVAX is a miserable failure for reasons that have nothing to do with not enough money or not enough vaccines. This isn't the place to discuss this but trust me on this.

The principle problem is one of distribution via reliable infrastructure. You can't build that overnight. Corruption in countries where aid gets diverted into the pockets of government officials is also pretty high up on the list of reasons for vaccine inequity. Not far behind that is the sheer ineptitude of federal governments. India's Modi administration is a good example.

My point is that western democracies that can afford to take care of their own citizens while at the same time have abundance may be able and willing to help citizens of other countries not as fortunate. But there are significant obstacles to getting aid, in this case vaccines, that have nothing to do with typical arguments that cast the problem as rich versus poor, greed versus need and all those arguments entail.  

 

Blah, Blah, blah.  Accurate details don't sell newspapers.  Gory headlines do.

"Luxury vacation for the rich stops vaccines from reaching poor people"

 

[JeffB]

Now you know the details. I'm routinely stunned by the level of misinformation floating around out there. I have no doubt why that is so and for the very reasons you mention. Just doing my part to pass on the straight scoop ..... or at least help people have informed views. 

[LizzyBee23]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Blah, Blah, blah.  Accurate details don't sell newspapers.  Gory headlines do.

"Luxury vacation for the rich stops vaccines from reaching poor people"

 

Yeah, and that's not going to change once cruises get started, either. My concern is that instead of acknowledging there will be overreactions at cases on board and moving on, we're letting the people with a motive to overreact frame the debate in such a way that crowds out reason. 

[nate91]

46 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Yeah, and that's not going to change once cruises get started, either. My concern is that instead of acknowledging there will be overreactions at cases on board and moving on, we're letting the people with a motive to overreact frame the debate in such a way that crowds out reason. 

Critical thinking/wisdom, is sadly hard to find these days. Many people are happy to regurgitate what they hear with no comprehension and understanding. The stalwart cruisers, those on this forum, will still cruise regardless of what the media says (I imagine something about a 3000% increase in onboard cases, while in reality, it was from 0 cases to 1 case, and it was a false positive). But the general cruising public may be dissuaded from cruising through headlines, thus cruise leadership has to step particularly carefully. 

[twangster]

I think the media (at least in the US) is savoring the new conflict in the region.  After months and months of virus coverage they have something else to focus on.  With the US election over and most political coverage returning to the old normal they need something new that's "newsworthy" to shake it up.

With US media broadcasting headline after headline declaring rocket attacks the optics of vacation cruising from Israel will be too tempting for the media to ignore.  Throw in luxury cruise line stealing vaccinations from poor people and it's like the perfect storm for the media.   

Buy stock in keyboard companies because the media is burning up their keyboards getting ready for this "media moment".

[smokeybandit]

USA is sending 80 million doses to other countries. I haven't seen anything on who will get them.