MrB Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 We've been waiting for months for clear CDC guidance. Well, we got it. Personally, I think it's great. It can turn cruise ships into the safest places on earth. Literally. The guidance is not without its issues: First, it might mean no children at all. There is no vaccine in the US approved for under 16, but that could change. This means Disney cruises are dead in the water, along with the the raison d'etre of a lot of the infrastructure on Royal ships. Second, those who can't get vaccinated for real medical reasons may not be able to cruise. My impression is that's what the 5% pax slop percentage is for, but management of that 5% is going to be crazy. It might be easier for the cruise line to say 100% vaccinated or no go. Exceptions like this are tough to manage, especially in the first cruise out of dock. Third, I have no idea what those people who have not been vaccinated will do. I have outlandish ideas of what might be attempted, but that's all they are at this point. What are your thoughts on the guidance? I'm excited, vaccinated, and ready to go! Curt From Canada and cruisellama 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I'm not sure it means Disney ships have to remain anchored offshore if they do sample cruises. We still don't know what that looks like without seeing the revised CDC technical instructions. The silence from all mass market cruise lines tells me it isn't simple. If it were we would have heard firm dates from at least one of them. With each passing day it's beginning to look more and more like the CDC has pulled another one and duped us all. If it goes another two weeks without any cruise line breaking silence we'll know for sure. Baked Alaska and cruisellama 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Until this guidance gets published to the CDC website, I'll continue to believe this was just a trial balloon to the cruise lines. And remember the guidance wasn't 95% vaccinated, it was an enticement to not have to do test cruises. cruisellama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted May 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, twangster said: The silence from all mass market cruise lines tells me it isn't simple. If it were we would have heard firm dates from at least one of them. I have been noticing this too. Crickets. Those numbers (98% / 95%) must be darn impossible to meet or they would have said something by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 If I'm a cruise boss, this is what I tell the CDC. 95% is way too high, especially just to avoid test cruises. You've told us 60-80% vaccinated is the national goal, so let's set that at 70% and we'll talk. Also, if the majority are vaccinated, then let's scrap this concept of local shore agreements to handle a massive outbreak that'll never happen with all the protocols in place now. Kayleigh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 One thing is becoming clear. If the cruise lines can't make these latest "simplified and easy" CDC revisions work, there will be no US cruising until Nov. 1 because the CDC doesn't want it. jticarruthers and DunkelBierJay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkelBierJay Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Announcements will happen when they happen and cruising will start when it starts. It seems like with all the news last week, a lot of pressure came off the CDC. I wonder if that's a good thing (I think that's a bad thing because I am too much of a pessimist). I'd love to see more news about the lawsuits and of the CDC being dragged through the mud. I just want our certainty back so we can YOLO book it when we want and know we are going to sail...unless there's a charter that pushes me out. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/05/05/royal-caribbean-says-kids-may-be-able-cruise-under-cdcs-95-vaccinated-restart-plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampurp85 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I think we might not have heard anything yet because the cruise lines might be doing both approaches. Also this is a real-time situation: it was April 28th when the claim was made, its just the 5th of May. It has only been a week since talks have begun. They just started vaccinating the crews so I would expect more information to come out after Mother's day. They could be setting up for test cruises and seeing what ships might meet the metrics. Having 95% of pax vaccinated is not a hard goal. While the country may sit at 35%, the amount of vaccinated people who are ready and willing to cruise could be at 80-90%. Children aren't super-spreaders so they might be counted different and/or still be allowed to cruise. Personally I think having 80-90% vaccinated cruises to start is a good idea and feasible. I want to give the CDC the benefit of doubt, let hope they aren't dangling a carrot that is impossible to reach just for giggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Ampurp85 said: While the country may sit at 35%, That's 35% of the entire population who are fully vaccinated. Take those under 18 out and it's 41%. But 57% of those over 18 have gotten at least one dose. So even if 10% opt out of dose 2, that's till over 50% of all adults who would be fully vaccinated before cruises start. I do agree that the amount of potential cruisers would be higher as I'm sure some non-trivial amount of people got vaccinated primarily to cruise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 No children under the age of 18 should be required to have been vaccinated. I do not want my children to have a vaccine whilst still in the trial period and its wrong of anybody to insist on this in order for them to enjoy a holiday. Especially when all the adults will be vaccinated (those that can). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovetoCruise87 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Royal Caribbean says kids may be able to cruise under CDC's 95% vaccinated restart plan Royal Caribbean's Senior Vice President, Sales, Trade Support and Service, Vicki Freed, told travel agents in a webinar that the CDC's plan was purposefully left short of requiring 100% vaccinated passengers so that kids could sail. "The reason for that is because children do not have to be vaccinated if they are under 18," Ms. Freed explained after getting asked why not require everyone to be vaccinated. "And so at this point, that is where the difference between the ninety five and one hundred percent." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, LovetoCruise87 said: Royal Caribbean says kids may be able to cruise under CDC's 95% vaccinated restart plan Royal Caribbean's Senior Vice President, Sales, Trade Support and Service, Vicki Freed, told travel agents in a webinar that the CDC's plan was purposefully left short of requiring 100% vaccinated passengers so that kids could sail. "The reason for that is because children do not have to be vaccinated if they are under 18," Ms. Freed explained after getting asked why not require everyone to be vaccinated. "And so at this point, that is where the difference between the ninety five and one hundred percent." But this goes on to mention that the vaccine will soon be approved for 12+, there is no mention of whether this will be compulsory to cruise. Also what happens if more than 5% of passengers are under 18? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, icf75 said: No children under the age of 18 should be required to have been vaccinated. I do not want my children to have a vaccine whilst still in the trial period and its wrong of anybody to insist on this in order for them to enjoy a holiday. Especially when all the adults will be vaccinated (those that can). That's your choice to make but why I think the CDC is going in this direction. The CDC wants to create a situation where vaccinated people get to do more than unvaccinated. They said as much. They want to motivate parents to vaccinate their children. That's not my position, but it is what the CDC is trying to do. The CSO is basically unworkable so the CDC left that mess for any cruise line who doesn't want to require vaccines. They aren't saying no to unvaccinated cruises, just it's super hard to the point the cruise lines would be daft to try. The recent easy button they put on the table for cruise lines requires 95% to be vaccinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 The worlds gone mad, it will soon be 'show us your papers' to do anything! I can only hope I get one more cruise in before this all happens. jticarruthers, Shari and Dan Curtis 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 It does put cruise lines in a bad spot. It forces the cruise lines into a position where they have to approach everyone, including guests who booked a cruise before this requirement was known and ask if everyone is vaccinated. I'm sure the cruise lines don't want to be in that position, it's a terrible thing to have to do. The silence we are hearing right now is probably from the cruise lines trying to figure out how to get this done. What are the legal impacts? What is the best way to create the messaging? What options should be available to cover all scenarios? Offer L&S or FCC or refunds? It's a government condition so how does that impact the cruise contract? And so on... All that needs to be determined before they can announce anything. Baked Alaska, Neesa and Tanner 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki007 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I'd like to see 100% vaccination mandatory for adults At this point in the US you are choosing to get COVID if you choose not to take the vaccine and that's fine with me, just sit on the sidelines so we can all return to living. Have a 50 year old in the ICU today...if they ever wake up I bet they'll wish they got vaccinated. foxrunner, joshgates, JC Pats and 6 others 4 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Remember it's not 95% or bust. It's 95% or still have to do a test cruise. I think cruise lines would be nuts not to do a test cruise and risk future pigeonholing by the CDC on that 95% limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovetocruise2002 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Health Canada (our version of the FDA) just approved Pfizer for 12+ this morning. Bring it on. Now I don't have the leave my kids behind in the dust, but I totally would have foxrunner, MamaShark, MrB and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbieBell Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 My position on this is more to the 100% for both guests and crew. I realize that shuts out some including kids, but in due time they will be eligible for vaccinations as well. As for the folks that choose not to get vaccinated that’s certainly their right to choose but sometimes those choices come with consequences. You can’t have it both ways and put a struggling industry and other folks in jeopardy because you made a personal decision not be be vaccinated. Fair or not, jeeeze folks “fair” isn’t really a grown up word so stop trying to ruin cruising for everyone. One case is all the CDC will need to put the brakes on again! Tcruisin, MrB and CruiseGus 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Remember it's not 95% or bust. It's 95% or still have to do a test cruise. That was one reporter's statement. I believe it is more like... Option 1 - Establish a 95% vaccination rule Option 2 - The old CSO applies with test cruises except we'll review test cruises in 5 days ane ports can share health clinics. All other CSO requirements stand as is. The CDC is giving them an easy road to take IF they agree to sail with a 95% vaccinated requirement. Otherwise the CSO stands nearly as is. MamaShark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, BarbieBell said: My position on this is more to the 100% for both guests and crew. I realize that shuts out some including kids, but in due time they will be eligible for vaccinations as well. As for the folks that choose not to get vaccinated that’s certainly their right to choose but sometimes those choices come with consequences. You can’t have it both ways and put a struggling industry and other folks in jeopardy because you made a personal decision not be be vaccinated. Fair or not, jeeeze folks “fair” isn’t really a grown up word so stop trying to ruin cruising for everyone. One case is all the CDC will need to put the brakes on again! Im not sure vaccine apartheid is a good look! And fwiw I am vaccinated. I can only hope for those that choose not to be vaccinated for any reason get to enjoy the same freedoms as those who are. Whilst not on the same scale, the flu vaccine was never a requirement and does kill people, we need to live with this just like flu! Its a case of people fully understanding the risks, which will be minimal (as it is now for the majority of people-99%survival rate, avg age of death 82 in UK) jticarruthers, Tanner and Loops 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 29 minutes ago, BarbieBell said: My position on this is more to the 100% for both guests and crew. I realize that shuts out some including kids, but in due time they will be eligible for vaccinations as well. As for the folks that choose not to get vaccinated that’s certainly their right to choose but sometimes those choices come with consequences. You can’t have it both ways and put a struggling industry and other folks in jeopardy because you made a personal decision not be be vaccinated. Fair or not, jeeeze folks “fair” isn’t really a grown up word so stop trying to ruin cruising for everyone. One case is all the CDC will need to put the brakes on again! But kids haven't made the personal choice not to get vaccinated because no vaccine is available to them. Loops and MamaShark 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/05/05/cdc-announces-new-instructions-cruise-lines-be-able-restart-cruises-united-states Every single ship needs a test cruise? @Matt your article says everyone needs to be vaccinated. According to this, that's not true. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html The cruise ship operator must ensure all volunteer passengers have either: Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO); or If not fully vaccinated, written documentation from a healthcare provider or self-certified statement that the volunteer passenger has no medical conditions that would place the volunteer at high risk for severe COVID-19 as determined through CDC guidance. MamaShark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGTLH Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Full details: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Here's the onboard guidance. This simply wouldn't be fun at all as strict as these rules are https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 This is my favorite bit: This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle OG Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 "proximity bands" Yikes. Imagine your wrist beeping every time you got too close to someone? MamaShark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Is this all for test cruises? or how it will be for 'real' cruises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 There's a distinction between "volunteers" for test cruises and pax on revenue cruises. Volunteers on test cruises have to be fully vaccinated with proof or get a letter from your PCP that "the volunteer passenger has no medical conditions that would place the volunteer at a high risk for severe COVID - 19 as determined through CDC guidance." A pax on a revenue cruise will be following one of the two pathways to restart..... and we don't yet know how that is going to play out. Frankly, for revenue cruising I think this, again, is unworkable. Confusion will reign supreme among management, ships officers and crew and passengers. Hoping the Judge rules this craziness unlawful. Back in March of 2020, we debarked on a Friday in PEV from one ship, planned to go home for the weekend and sail again on Monday. To do that because I was 72 at the time and per "CDC Guidance" I was high risk. I'm perfectly healthy but have had my entire life what amounts to a insignificant heart arrhythmia and I take a cholesterol lowering drug. My primary wouldn't write the letter and neither would a local doc-in-the box. The cruise got cancelled on Sunday before embarkation anyway. Unless you are in the under, or there about, 40ish group and don't take any medications, docs aren't going to risk the liability. They may not write one under any circumstance related to your health and age. Basically, forget abut volunteering for a test cruise unless you're vaccinated and can prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 "CDC Guidance for US cruises- 98% Crew, 95% Pax vaccinated. Are you OK with that?" I'm fine with it, in fact I prefer it but I'm also OK with the alternative the CDC has laid out. Given a choice, I'd choose a sailing where vaccination is required to board. MrB, deep1, SebagoSue and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, icf75 said: Is this all for test cruises? or how it will be for 'real' cruises? Pretty awful, unless the 95% route allows them to not have to follow these rules. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Pretty awful, unless the 95% route allows them to not have to follow these rules. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html If it is like this I dont particularly want to go, especially as paying top dollar. Im hoping RC will offer l&S/refund? I dont want to travel from UK for that shambles. What are the conditions on board the European cruises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zurc Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 49 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html The cruise ship operator must ensure all volunteer passengers have either: Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO); or If not fully vaccinated, written documentation from a healthcare provider or self-certified statement that the volunteer passenger has no medical conditions that would place the volunteer at high risk for severe COVID-19 as determined through CDC guidance. If you were a cruise line and had to pass test cruises before revenue sailings, would you bank on the first or second volunteer option? Wrong choice could potentially delay revenue sailings even longer for a cruise line, should an outbreak occur. Patt Whitmore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Zurc said: If you were a cruise line and had to pass test cruises before revenue sailings, would you bank on the first or second volunteer option? Wrong choice could potentially delay revenue sailings even longer for a cruise line, should an outbreak occur. You could easily only require vaccinated passengers on a test cruise. Plus you can do test cruises with only 10% of the expected capacity of your cruises. So a couple hundred people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Babe Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I have to say, none of this sounds like something "gee, I can't wait to go on a cruise this summer". The staff at the ports, the crew, etc will be subject to (again, speculating) a lot of supervision, making sure everything is going according to "CDC" etc. I also have to chime in about the vaccinations. They DO NOT prevent you from getting the virus, just "lessen the symptoms", so there's a very real possibility a vaccinated person can get it. I pray that I can someday go again on a cruise. I currently have 8 booked since losing my husband and have had 4 cancelled. My idea of cruising as I'm sure it's everyone's is what we experienced prior to Covid and I hope it can end up being that. Just not sure it's this year. MamaShark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zurc Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: You could easily only require vaccinated passengers on a test cruise. Plus you can do test cruises with only 10% of the expected capacity of your cruises. So a couple hundred people Yes, that sounds like best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icf75 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, Boston Babe said: I have to say, none of this sounds like something "gee, I can't wait to go on a cruise this summer". The staff at the ports, the crew, etc will be subject to (again, speculating) a lot of supervision, making sure everything is going according to "CDC" etc. I also have to chime in about the vaccinations. They DO NOT prevent you from getting the virus, just "lessen the symptoms", so there's a very real possibility a vaccinated person can get it. I pray that I can someday go again on a cruise. I currently have 8 booked since losing my husband and have had 4 cancelled. My idea of cruising as I'm sure it's everyone's is what we experienced prior to Covid and I hope it can end up being that. Just not sure it's this year. Exactly this, whats the difference from having vaccinated passengers 2021 or next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 I'm shocked, the CDC didn't slide an easy button across the table after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Boston Babe said: They DO NOT prevent you from getting the virus, just "lessen the symptoms", so there's a very real possibility a vaccinated person can get it. Here's the CDC data on breakthrough cases. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html Based on that, if you had 2 cruises ships with 5000 people on them, 1 person across both cruises would be infected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.