Jump to content

Celebrity Beyond Announcement coming April 29, 2021


twangster

Recommended Posts

I may or may not have posted this but in February, before the scurrying by various entities to sue the CDC, introduce legislation to block the CSO and all that,  I was thinking European ports would open before US ports. I booked a Celebrity Reflection cruise in July out of Amsterdam on a Norwegian Fjord itinerary. This itinerary was on my bucket list. Well, this is a fast moving ball game. The Netherlands may or may not open its boarders to Americans anytime soon. What we do know is that Greece is open, welcoming vaccinated US citizens and Apex is sailing from Athens on 7 and 8n itineraries in the Greek Isles in June and July. Let's go for it!

Here are some lessons learned and hoops I had to jump through to cancel Reflection and book Apex in July.

First, I was inside the final payment window for the Reflection cruise. A voluntary cancellation incurs a 25% penalty. That amounted to a bit over $1K. Second, when I looked at cabin availability on the 7/09/21 8n Apex sailing in the Greek Isles, very few Veranda cabins were available, If I waited for Celebrity to cancel my booked Reflection cruise, I would have limited cabins available. Moreover, Celebrity uses demand pricing algorithms. I have no doubt prices, currently pretty good, would go up. I could easily spend more than I might wish to spend to sail. Finally, I booked air to Amsterdam from Miami with Flights by Celebrity. The R/T fair was high by normal US to EU fare standards. Rebooking these also incurs a penalty.

I have a TA that I have used for years so, I give her a call and we start to investigate. Yep, I'll get busted with a 1K penalty to cancel and rebook. But wait, my TA tells the Celebrity agent, this guy has been sailing almost exclusively with Celebrity since 2001. Is there anything you can do? Let me check is the response. For $100pp Celebrity cancelled the Amsterdam sailing and booked the Athens sailing. ALWAYS ASK - I've found Celebrity to be accommodating to most requests when they make sense.

The Apex sailing from Athens was about $200 more pp (8n v. 7); what I had already paid was applied to the new booking and I paid an additional $400. To do that I stepped down from a CatC2 to a 1A. Going from Reflection to Apex that's pretty much a wash. I could have retained the C2 cabin (Concierge) but it would have cost more to do the rebooking. I declined not caring about special soaps, cabin location and a cool shower head.

So much for that. Now comes the interesting part and what made the switch a no-brainer for me. When you use Flights by Celebrity (something you should be seriously considering in the COVID environment), your air itinerary is attached to your booking number. The Celebrity agent used the same booking number for the new booking on Apex - this is important when doing stuff like this if you are attempting to do a switch-o-change-o on a booking that includes air, make sure you do this or ask to do it. 

The Celebrity agent, not my TA or me in this case, has to notify the Air Department of the cancellation of the Reflection sailing and attached R/T Amsterdam air itinerary. ONly then will the system allow a R/T Athens air itinerary to be booked. There's a $200pp change fee when you change flights voluntarily like I was doing. However, Flights from Miami to Athens and back were more than 1/2 of the price of the Amsterdam flights - at least they were when I booked them. Like I said, the R/T Amsterdam flight were ridiculously high. 

In the end, even with all the penalties off-set by cheaper air - much cheaper - Switching from the Reflection to the Apex saved me a couple hundred bucks. Wow! As well, I'm more comfortable with what is likely to be a sure thing in Greece, a place I have been 2X before on cruises and absolutely love. It took me a lot of digging and persistence (and a good TA0 for this to work-out the way it did. Be prepared to do your home work and be persistent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another interesting adventure over the last year involving refunds, FCCs and L&Ss ....... I started thinking about one of the refunds I got from Celebrity for a Celebrity cancelled cruise and wondered, did I get what I was supposed to get.

First, remember that when Celebrity provides a refund, how the amount of the cruise fare is calculated and refunded is confusing, understandable if you are paying attention but, nonetheless, confusing. As well, taxes and port charges (fees) are refunded separately from cruise fares. When I checked my credit card statement for these refunds, they were there but there were 6 of them for one refund in weird amounts but all totaled it seemed about right. "About" right isn't exactly what I was looking for though.

So, I called Celebrity and got routed to guest services. Very helpful ..... as long as you know the booking number of each cruise you want to learn about. I keep good records so, I had them. Together we went through each cancelled booking. Out of the 7 cancelled bookings, I had 3 sets of FCCs, 2 refunds and 2 L&S. Every thing seemed in order but to my surprise, I had 2 FCCs from one cancelled cruise that I had apparently forgotten about.

Whooo - whooo. Another paid for cruise that I'll book for 2022. Point is, keep track, your TA may or may not be doing this for you, review and question Celebrity or RCL to make sure your not giving anything away. In my case Celebrity was very helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m seeing Kelly Hoppen’s name a lot in that video. When the M and S class ships were revolutionized, there was a ton of negative feedback over on “the other place” about her designs and the new furniture / knick-knacks / other elements. All to the effect of, “Has this woman ever actually sailed on a cruise ship before??”

The consensus being that her designs were far too neutral in color scheme in an environment that desperately needs some lively colors, and the materials used would never hold up well in a humid salt air environment. Even crew said they had to keep replacing cushions all the time because they got ruined after their first exposure to salt water mist.

Let’s hope Ms. Hoppen has learned some lessons as they build her designs for Beyond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JLMoran said:

I’m seeing Kelly Hoppen’s name a lot in that video. When the M and S class ships were revolutionized, there was a ton of negative feedback over on “the other place” about her designs and the new furniture / knick-knacks / other elements. All to the effect of, “Has this woman ever actually sailed on a cruise ship before??”

The consensus being that her designs were far too neutral in color scheme in an environment that desperately needs some lively colors, and the materials used would never hold up well in a humid salt air environment. Even crew said they had to keep replacing cushions all the time because they got ruined after their first exposure to salt water mist.

Let’s hope Ms. Hoppen has learned some lessons as they build her designs for Beyond.

There were some interesting public restroom faux pas in the Edge design.  For example on aft pool deck there was a window on the restroom door which neutralized privacy to those using the area.  Also as a matter of decor preference, the lavatory soap dispensers were tucked under the mirror making them hard to find.  Needless to say most I observed in that area skipped the soap step as they couldn't find it...  Having easy access to soap and sanitizer dispensers will be even more important in the next era of cruising.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JLMoran said:

I’m seeing Kelly Hoppen’s name a lot in that video. When the M and S class ships were revolutionized, there was a ton of negative feedback over on “the other place” about her designs and the new furniture / knick-knacks / other elements. All to the effect of, “Has this woman ever actually sailed on a cruise ship before??”

The consensus being that her designs were far too neutral in color scheme in an environment that desperately needs some lively colors, and the materials used would never hold up well in a humid salt air environment. Even crew said they had to keep replacing cushions all the time because they got ruined after their first exposure to salt water mist.

Let’s hope Ms. Hoppen has learned some lessons as they build her designs for Beyond.

We were on Summit after the revolution, and I can agree with a lot of the comments.  Some design choices made absolutely no sense.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, KathyC said:

We were on Summit after the revolution, and I can agree with a lot of the comments.  Some design choices made absolutely no sense.  

Like chairs in the cabin that would not fit under the desk.  Or the fabric wall coverings that inhibited using magnetic hooks/clips over the desk area.  Seemed like the materials would not wear very well either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Celebrity Beyond is.

Well Beyond my price tolerance.

Single balcony is $500+ per night.

I've had SilverSea bookings that were cheaper solo.    

For just a little bit more I've got Star Class solo bookings.

Single balcony on Beyond or Star Class on Oasis class?  Hmmm.  

The good news is that RCG will recover all losses from the pandemic in a single year from Beyond bookings.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, twangster said:

Celebrity Beyond is.

Well Beyond my price tolerance.

Single balcony is $500+ per night.

Wow. I had observed the drastic upward price trend on Celebrity sailings over the last year and a half, but that is just bananas. They’re pricing themselves right out of the market. They’re getting into (if not surpassing) HAL pricing, without offering anything close to HAL amenities or itineraries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, JLMoran said:

Wow. I had observed the drastic upward price trend on Celebrity sailings over the last year and a half, but that is just bananas. They’re pricing themselves right out of the market. They’re getting into (if not surpassing) HAL pricing, without offering anything close to HAL amenities or itineraries.

Cruising hasn't started yet.  A lot of pent up demand, with limited cabins/sailings available for the next year. Low supply - high demand - high prices.    If the industry gets back to normal next summer ('22) with full fleet deployment and new ships sailing, I think we'll see those prices come down.   Betting there's still a notable percentage of passengers that won't come back for a while (or may not cruise again).  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

Cruising hasn't started yet.  A lot of pent up demand, with limited cabins/sailings available for the next year. Low supply - high demand - high prices.    If the industry gets back to normal next summer ('22) with full fleet deployment and new ships sailing, I think we'll see those prices come down.   Betting there's still a notable percentage of passengers that won't come back for a while (or may not cruise again).  

In my case I am comparing it to a 2023 Star Class booking.  I looked at that pricing again today. 

I can sail in a Star Class suite in 2023 for 80% of a balcony on Beyond on a similar sailing in the same region.

So apparently the high demand, low supply is only a Celebrity thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there is any question that since Lutoff-Perlo became CEO at Celebrity, the company has been pursuing a niche of pricing insensitive, exclusivity seeking cruisers. That is an industry trend, BTW. 

Spenders like that are out there. Probably lots of them with money to spend. Right now and going forward for at least a year, maybe longer, big spenders are going to spend big-bucks on travel. Not only is there pent-up demand for cruising, there is a huge amount of cash laying around in the bank and investment accounts of high income folks. 

 I don't know what the margins are for a ship like Beyond carrying around 800 passengers paying upwards of $10K, along with those paying lower inside and OV cabin rates, compared to an M class ship with 50 guests paying that much and the rest who sought lower fares and picked an M class ship because of those savings. I would think a pricing structure like we're seeing appear on Beyond is much more profitable than sailing an M class ship.  We'll see more of this industry wide as older ships are sold and replaced with newer ships. Although good fares will still be available, this trend is going to drag lower priced cabin fares upward along wit them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, JeffB said:

I don't think there is any question that since Lutoff-Perlo became CEO at Celebrity, the company has been pursuing a niche of pricing insensitive, exclusivity seeking cruisers. That is an industry trend, BTW. 

Spenders like that are out there. Probably lots of them with money to spend. Right now and going forward for at least a year, maybe longer, big spenders are going to spend big-bucks on travel. Not only is there pent-up demand for cruising, there is a huge amount of cash laying around in the bank and investment accounts of high income folks. 

 I don't know what the margins are for a ship like Beyond carrying around 800 passengers paying upwards of $10K, along with those paying lower inside and OV cabin rates, compared to an M class ship with 50 guests paying that much and the rest who sought lower fares and picked an M class ship because of those savings. I would think a pricing structure like we're seeing appear on Beyond is much more profitable than sailing an M class ship.  We'll see more of this industry wide as older ships are sold and replaced with newer ships. Although good fares will still be available, this trend is going to drag lower priced cabin fares upward along wit them. 

I'm just surprised to see them approach SilverSea rates on select sailings.  

Granted that isn't all ships, all sailings, but Beyond moves Celebrity closer to SS compared to the gap with RCI.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not at all surprised. It's a money grab .... make hay while the sun shines type of deal. If demand for pricing like this is out there, harvest it. The last year has been just awful for the cruise industry. If, I'm in Lutoff-Perlo's shoes I'd be doing exactly the same thing so as to keep the company's  BOD off my ass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 2023 booking on the Silver Dawn, also their newest ship that hasn't carried guests yet.

7 nights Caribbean $5,690 including airfare and excursions in a mid-level suite (not the lowest one available).

For that money I get Concierge Class on Beyond, same week in the Caribbean, but no airfare or excursions.  

True luxury or faux luxury?  Hmmm.  

Plus the itinerary on the Dawn is much more appealing.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do see why they got rid of Azamara more clearly now.  They needed to create space for Celebrity to move it's pricing model into.  

With Azamara in the fold it was too compressed and hard to differentiate.  Now X has its own little place between RCI and SS to sail free within.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting on your SS comments and the reason Luttoff-Perlo ditched Azamara. I've often thought that Lutoff-Perlo was overly aggressive in changing the culture of the Celebrity brand - got rid of a ton of stuff I liked, holdovers from the Chantris ownership era. One of them was the golden age of cruising themed restaurants on the M class ships. Also downplayed Celebrity's X for excellence and substituted it for an E for expensive.... not really the X is still on the stacks but you get the point. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, twangster said:

I do see why they got rid of Azamara more clearly now.  They needed to create space for Celebrity to move it's pricing model into.  

With Azamara in the fold it was too compressed and hard to differentiate.  Now X has its own little place between RCI and SS to sail free within.  

But to do that without actually giving better itineraries or onboard perks / amenities is stupid. Making drinks, WiFi, and gratuities included offsets that to a tiny degree, since as you noted many times in other threads that was basically already a perk once you hit Elite or Zenith, or stayed in any suite.

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

But to do that without actually giving better itineraries or onboard perks / amenities is stupid. Making drinks, WiFi, and gratuities included offsets that to a tiny degree, since as you noted many times in other threads that was basically already a perk once you hit Elite or Zenith, or stayed in any suite.

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

Including drinks and wifi does not equate to luxury.  We'll see if Beyond changes the equation but true luxury requires better crew:guest ratios.  I've long said you can't scale luxury into mass market but maybe X can prove me wrong.  

A smart exec at one of those lines would introduce a status match program.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

But to do that without actually giving better itineraries or onboard perks / amenities is stupid. Making drinks, WiFi, and gratuities included offsets that to a tiny degree, since as you noted many times in other threads that was basically already a perk once you hit Elite or Zenith, or stayed in any suite.

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

 

Sometimes cruise lines change.  My in-laws used to love to sail on NCL in the 90's.  They ended up at the highest "Latitudes" level that existed at the time (more have been added since).  But then NCL implemented their "Freestyle Dining" program, and they weren't pleased.  They gave it a try for a few more sailings, but they rarely sail NCL anymore.

This is one reason why chasing loyalty program level's is risky.  Better to pick the "best" cruise, and not limit yourself to a specific line.  Perhaps that means going with Princess or HAL for that one off Alaska cruise, and then going back to your preferred cruise line for your yearly Caribbean cruise, or whatever.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

I imagine there are a lot of Select, Elite, and Zenith members who are fuming over these changes and getting ready to change lines. Princess and HAL will be more than happy to welcome them.

I'm in that group but not fuming and no, I'm not sailing on either Princess or HAL any time soon. The price of a cruise vacation has gone up, no doubt but, it still remains a remarkable value. What I don't welcome though is the industry wide drift to exclusivity and the up-pricing that goes with it. So far, that hasn't fully filtered down to, what is for me, affordable cabins.  I also don't feel like I'm treated any differently on a Celebrity ship itself because I booked an OV cabin on deck 4. I think it's coming though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

A smart exec at one of those lines would introduce a status match program.  

It would be smart, but it seems like Carnival corp doesn't believe in status matches.  They can't even figure out how to do a match between Princess and Cunard or HAL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Interesting on your SS comments and the reason Luttoff-Perlo ditched Azamara. I've often thought that Lutoff-Perlo was overly aggressive in changing the culture of the Celebrity brand - got rid of a ton of stuff I liked, holdovers from the Chantris ownership era. One of them was the golden age of cruising themed restaurants on the M class ships. Also downplayed Celebrity's X for excellence and substituted it for an E for expensive.... not really the X is still on the stacks but you get the point. 

Richard is pulling a lot of those strings too, this isn't just Lisa, I suspect it's his master plan, she is just the executioner.  

There are a lot of people willing and able to spend money to be bourgeoise.  They are simply being the outlet for this demographic.  This demographic doesn't want true luxury as in SS, that's too old and stuffy.  

I suspect Beyond may be very successful even if they lose some long time X base.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, JeffB said:

What I don't welcome though is the industry wide drift to exclusivity and the up-pricing that goes with it. So far, that hasn't fully filtered down to, what is for me, affordable cabins.  I also don't feel like I'm treated any differently on a Celebrity ship itself because I booked an OV cabin on deck 4. I think it's coming though.

They are all doing it.  MSC Yacht Club, Celebrity Retreat, NCL Haven and now Wonder's eighth neighborhood.  Beyond's Retreat is two level, growing bigger.

The olden days are coming back.  You have your first class passengers and steerage.  The two never mingle, except in the movies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, twangster said:

In my case I am comparing it to a 2023 Star Class booking.  I looked at that pricing again today. 

I can sail in a Star Class suite in 2023 for 80% of a balcony on Beyond on a similar sailing in the same region.

So apparently the high demand, low supply is only a Celebrity thing.

I'm only seeing Beyond itineraries out to 4/23 - still pent up demand for less Celebrity cabins.  How are you comparing cabins, foot print or just class.   Lowest/highest Star against an Iconic Suite?  Older Q/O class to new Edge class (Beyond).  There's  quite a swing in Celebrity Retreat classes.  Edge class ships are smaller than Q or O class so less inventory per ship (3000ish passenger to 5000ish).  Agree Beyond pricing is reaching beyond the Stars (pun intended).  Royal offers far more inventory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

I'm only seeing Beyond itineraries out to 4/23 - still pent up demand for less Celebrity cabins.  How are you comparing cabins, foot print or just class.   Lowest/highest Star against an Iconic Suite?  Older Q/O class to new Edge class (Beyond).  There's  quite a swing in Celebrity Retreat classes.  Edge class ships are smaller than Q or O class so less inventory per ship (3000ish passenger to 5000ish).  Agree Beyond pricing is reaching beyond the Stars (pun intended).  Royal offers far more inventory.

SilverSea has even less inventory.  

I don't believe supply and demand are factors.  I just don't see it. 

If Celebrity can get people to pay Beyond prices that's great.  More power to them but it's not due to supply and demand. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, twangster said:

SilverSea has even less inventory.  

I don't believe supply and demand are factors.  I just don't see it. 

If Celebrity can get people to pay Beyond prices that's great.  More power to them but it's not due to supply and demand. 

And SS has higher prices too, without the overhead rate of a larger ship (less restaurants, toys, attractions, but better crew/passenger ratio).   Supply is a factor in pricing, low quantity of high desirable service/product allows for  price inflation  - Econ 101.   I'll agree Celebrity charges a premium rate, and if they have problems filling cabins, you'll see prices adjust accordingly.   And Celebrity has always jacked up the price on new ships - especially Edge class.   We held off a year on sailing Edge because the early cruises were stupid high for suites.  Rates came down, and we got a decent deal.  Now  Apex is getting the premium rate over Edge.   Next year, I'm sure we'll see Apex adjust.  The premium price can result in greater margin for the company. - especially since they've been sucking wind for over a year.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, cruisellama said:

And SS has higher prices too, without the overhead rate of a larger ship (less restaurants, toys, attractions, but better crew/passenger ratio).   Supply is a factor in pricing, low quantity of high desirable service/product allows for  price inflation  - Econ 101.   I'll agree Celebrity charges a premium rate, and if they have problems filling cabins, you'll see prices adjust accordingly.   And Celebrity has always jacked up the price on new ships - especially Edge class.   We held off a year on sailing Edge because the early cruises were stupid high for suites.  Rates came down, and we got a decent deal.  Now  Apex is getting the premium rate over Edge.   Next year, I'm sure we'll see Apex adjust.  The premium price can result in greater margin for the company. - especially since they've been sucking wind for over a year.   

One ship in a fleet doubles pricing.  

This is one where we will have to agree to disagree.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beyond is 20m longer, 1 deck higher.  Up from 129,500 GT to 140,600 GT.

Two level retreat is 40% larger, accommodates 292.  "A resort within a resort".  Round pool instead of square pool.

Luminae moves to deck 16, ~10% larger with increased capacity.

Sunset Bar is 81% larger.

Larger resort deck with 8 raised cabanas that face the pool.

Rooftop Garden with two cantilevered pools.

New Aquaclass Suite blends Aquaclass with Suites.  Twenty suites in this class, sleeps 2.  Access to the thermal spa.  Retreat and Luminae access. 

Grand Plaza 16% larger.  Martini Bar move to center.

New restaurant by Daniel Boulud "Le Voyage".

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...