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July 4th


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This is probably going to upset a few people, but I tend to speak my mind, especially when I feel insulted.

  • I read Mr. Fain's recent comments published on the Home Page of RCB and I find it disturbing that he refers refers to President Biden's July 4th date as a "major reopening milestone, especially since President Biden clarified his remarks: 

     If we do all this, if we do our part, we do this together, by July the 4th, there's a good chance you, your families and friends will be able to get together in your backyard or in your neighborhood and have a cookout and a barbecue and celebrate Independence Day.

    That doesn't mean large events with lots of people together, but it does mean small groups will be able to get together. After this long, hard year that will make this Independence Day something truly special where we not only mark our independence as a nation, but we began to mark our independence from this virus.

  • The CDC also made it clear this past week that the President's mention of the July 4th date for "backyard gatherings of small vaccinated individuals in no way compares to a cruise ship." ---apples and oranges.

  • What disturbs me most is that, apparently, there are those who think that the general public is not informed, does not read, and can be lulled into the I-want-it-so-bad mentality that they will believe anything.

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11 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

We're in an era that the first thing said (whether right, wrong, truthful or not) is what people remember.


Fain is rightly using that July 4th Biden comment to his advantage. As is NCL.

I disagree. Your statement is an oversimplification of a complex situation. Given that, there are those who remember all and use it in formulating their beliefs.  

Both Fain and Del Rio (or their PR people) are aware of the clarification of President Biden's comment, and if they are not, they should be.  To use it as the basis of encouragement to both their current and future customers is unethical. There is nothing "rightly" about it.

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Yes, and Biden made that remark about July 4 before he moved up dates for people to get vaccines

its not wanting it bad enough. It’s the cruise lines being unfairly shutdown in US until oct 31 when no sail order is expired

given the data, the cruise lines are being very realistic about when they should be allowed to sail again especially given the CDCs inaction 

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I agree the July 4th statement by President Biden is not an open call for pre-2020 life to resume. However, it is a symbol.  A mile marker on the road to life moving away from the pandemic.  Obviously, the President's statement is really a call to action for vaccines so we can do that.

As it relates to cruising, I don't think Fain necessarily believes it's a 1:1 from a backyard bbq and Oasis of the Seas, but the notion that we want to move towards normalcy is what the statement is about.

I really don't think the July 4th is the basis of either NCL or RC's plans.  Their motives for getting permission to sail again is based on two tenants:

  1. Safe protocols + vaccine requirements
  2. Double standard that every other form of travel is unhindered.

The July 4th date is just icing on the cake.

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I understand the concern about equating backyard barbecues and cruising, they’re certainly not the same. But let’s be honest, there are many who have been hosting and attending much bigger than that since the start of the pandemic. The cruise lines are simply using that date as the “return to (some) normalcy”. 

Cruising is a choice, not all that different than most other vacations. If thousands can pack into a theme park every day, I believe that cruise lines should be afforded the same option to reopen. Just my opinion though. 

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15 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

Yes, and Biden made that remark about July 4 before he moved up dates for people to get vaccines

its not wanting it bad enough. It’s the cruise lines being unfairly shutdown in US until nov 31 when no sail order is expired

given the data, the cruise lines are being very realistic about when they should be allowed to sail again especially given the CDCs inaction 

 

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

I agree the July 4th statement by President Biden is not an open call for pre-2020 life to resume. However, it is a symbol.  A mile marker on the road to life moving away from the pandemic.  Obviously, the President's statement is really a call to action for vaccines so we can do that.

As it relates to cruising, I don't think Fain necessarily believes it's a 1:1 from a backyard bbq and Oasis of the Seas, but the notion that we want to move towards normalcy is what the statement is about.

I really don't think the July 4th is the basis of either NCL or RC's plans.  Their motives for getting permission to sail again is based on two tenants:

  1. Safe protocols + vaccine requirements
  2. Double standard that every other form of travel is unhindered.

The July 4th date is just icing on the cake.

At this point, It is an imaginary cake.

 

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25 minutes ago, MaritimeR&R said:

I disagree. Your statement is an oversimplification of a complex situation. Given that, there are those who remember all and use it in formulating their beliefs.  

Both Fain and Del Rio (or their PR people) are aware of the clarification of President Biden's comment, and if they are not, they should be.  To use it as the basis of encouragement to both their current and future customers is unethical. There is nothing "rightly" about it.

The CDC is doing the exact same thing right now. Using Diamond Princess as its main motivation to keep cruising locked down.

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Thank God its not only the UK government that has said this type of thing!!!

As per link on other thread regarding international UK travel restarting in May ( this date is if everything works out as they hope it does ) yet at same time as they hope to start international travel i will only be able to have 3 households in my garden at 1 time....

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2 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

My 2 cents: I don't think July 4th would be the start date considering the below. You can't even check-in at this point which you should be able to AND by the comment made by the RCG Rep when I questioned the issue:

image.thumb.png.7a12f76dfa81fdd86384f39c6fb178ac.png

Don't read too much in to this.  I'm scheduled on Celebrity Millennium in June and Adventure in July.  I fully expect both to set sail, but I get the same message when I attempt to access my reservation through the app.

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6 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

You do realize that your June cruise is a bust at this point?

Celebrity Millennium out of St. Maarten in June? This is one of those cruises announced in the last few weeks that avoids the US and was specifically excluded from the latest round of cancellations.

So, No, I don't realize it is a bust at this point. Am I missing something?

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19 minutes ago, steverk said:

Celebrity Millennium out of St. Maarten in June? This is one of those cruises announced in the last few weeks that avoids the US and was specifically excluded from the latest round of cancellations.

So, No, I don't realize it is a bust at this point. Am I missing something?

Ohhhhh.....Leaving out of St. Marteen??? Hmmmm...didn't see that. Thanks!!!!!!

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3 hours ago, MaritimeR&R said:

I read Mr. Fain's recent comments published on the Home Page of RCB and I find it disturbing that he refers refers to President Biden's July 4th date as a "major reopening milestone, especially since President Biden clarified his remarks: 

 

3 hours ago, MaritimeR&R said:

What disturbs me most is that, apparently, there are those who think that the general public is not informed, does not read, and can be lulled into the I-want-it-so-bad mentality that they will believe anything.

I get the point of your post but I'm perplexed as to why you feel "insulted" by Fain's remarks. He's never said, nor implied that the July 4th is the planned re-start day for RCL cruises. I believe you inferred that. What he has said is this:

 "My fondest desire is that we can follow President Biden's target of July 4th as a major reopening milestone. The evidence is that we can do it. Now is our opportunity to work together towards that common goal."

That last sentence is an important rejoinder suggesting RCG isn't doing any sailing from US ports until the CDC either lifts the NSO/CSO in it's entirety or revises the CSO. He's said, along with CLIA, he thinks the CSO is unworkable and lacks identifiable gates and a time line for reopening. IMO, he, along with CLIA, are spot on 

You won't find a more informed group of cruise fanatics who post here regularly and probably do read everything and anything having to do with the restart of cruising. You're the first to post that you are "insulted" on the basis that you believe Fain thinks that cruise fans are not informed. There are some issues. I've posted that I have become frustrated by RCL's lack of forthrightness. Same for the cruise industry titans in general for their lack of courage and leadership ...... that was before the flurry of events I spoke of above a little more than a week ago. That was leadership from CLIA, from all the cruise line CEOs that chimed in challenging the unfairness of the on going situation and Governor Desantis making that very claim in a law suit filed in the federal district court system of the State of FL.  

I've stated on this message board that I'm waiting patiently to see what comes of the flurry of events that culminated in FL's Governor Desantis announcement on Friday, April 2nd, that the State of FL was suing the Biden administration over the closure of FL ports to the cruise ship industry.  Will the needle move? So far, it hasn't budged. I'm frustrated but, I'm certainly not insulted by anyone in the cruise industry who is dealing with the incredibly difficult leadership and management requirements of their positions.

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7 hours ago, MaritimeR&R said:

 

This is probably going to upset a few people, but I tend to speak my mind, especially when I feel insulted.

  • I read Mr. Fain's recent comments published on the Home Page of RCB and I find it disturbing that he refers refers to President Biden's July 4th date as a "major reopening milestone, especially since President Biden clarified his remarks: 

     If we do all this, if we do our part, we do this together, by July the 4th, there's a good chance you, your families and friends will be able to get together in your backyard or in your neighborhood and have a cookout and a barbecue and celebrate Independence Day.

    That doesn't mean large events with lots of people together, but it does mean small groups will be able to get together. After this long, hard year that will make this Independence Day something truly special where we not only mark our independence as a nation, but we began to mark our independence from this virus.

  • The CDC also made it clear this past week that the President's mention of the July 4th date for "backyard gatherings of small vaccinated individuals in no way compares to a cruise ship." ---apples and oranges.

  • What disturbs me most is that, apparently, there are those who think that the general public is not informed, does not read, and can be lulled into the I-want-it-so-bad mentality that they will believe anything.

I am offended that there are still those who want to decide for others what we can and can't do.

I have been vaccinated and have yet to see any valid medical reason why I shouldn't be allowed to make my own choices about how I spend my time.  The overwhelming evidence is that I am highly unlikely to get the disease - even if I were directly exposed.  If I did manage to get it the evidence shows that with near 100% certainty, I would get a mild case - no worse than many other illnesses.  It will be 100% my choice whether I decide to go on a cruise and will have the full information available as to who else would be on the cruise with me, and what protocols would be in place.

You have the absolute right to live your life as you see fit.  If you still see risk, then stay away from others.  I assure you that I will defend your right to make whatever choices you are comfortable with.  Why wouldn't you allow others the same choice?

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10 hours ago, wordell1 said:

 

You have the absolute right to live your life as you see fit.  If you still see risk, then stay away from others.  I assure you that I will defend your right to make whatever choices you are comfortable with.  Why wouldn't you allow others the same choice?

I will assume you are speaking in generalizations here as the thrust of my post had nothing to do with the right of personal choice.

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14 hours ago, MaritimeR&R said:

I will assume you are speaking in generalizations here as the thrust of my post had nothing to do with the right of personal choice.

I thought you were quite clear in your post.

Why are you "insulted" that the cruise industry wants to resume cruising?  The President is the one who mentioned July 4th as a goal for getting back some sense of normalcy.  The cruise industry is simply asking to be included in that.

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I feel like the 4th of July is not only a major American holiday but the true official/quintessential start of summer. So I can see why they both used this day as a reference. I personally don't get why this would insult you. The cruise industry has been roaring to get back into motion since last year...yet everything else has been allowed to commence. Full baseball stadiums, bubble sports, and limited capacity theme parks are in full swing.

 

On 4/12/2021 at 10:09 AM, MaritimeR&R said:

What disturbs me most is that, apparently, there are those who think that the general public is not informed, does not read, and can be lulled into the I-want-it-so-bad mentality that they will believe anything.

Your statement actually proves everyone points. People read headlines about one cruise ship that couldn't dock because we didn't know enough about Covid. And they think cruise ships are breeding grounds for viruses and germs. When in fact they are cleaned more often than the hotel, theme parks and stadiums most people frequent. Its not an issue of I want, what I want........but leveling the playing field. If every other form of travel and entertainment is allowed to commence, than so should cruises.

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I guess one of the things that intrigues me about the whole July 4 thing is how much seems revolve around July.

When does President Biden want things back to "normal?" July

When does Richard Fain want to be sailing? July

When does the COVID emergency declaration expire (unless renewed)? July

What is one of the triggers to end the CSO? COVID emergency declaration expires

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26 minutes ago, steverk said:

When does the COVID emergency declaration expire (unless renewed)? July

Where do you see this?? There is no end date per President Biden's Notice of February 24, 2021. See: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/02/24/notice-on-the-continuation-of-the-national-emergency-concerning-the-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-pandemic/

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31 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

It is my understanding that the CDC emergency declaration, which was originally issued in January 2020, must be renewed every 90 days.  It's up for renewal this month, but there's no way it won't be. Therefore, the next extension would be July.

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18 minutes ago, steverk said:

It is my understanding that the CDC emergency declaration, which was originally issued in January 2020, must be renewed every 90 days.  It's up for renewal this month, but there's no way it won't be. Therefore, the next extension would be July.

Can you provide a link to the CDC emergency declaration? I believe you are confusing it with the CDC Extends Eviction Moratorium Through End of June.

Update: I found the latest order: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html, which I believe you are referring to:

This Order shall continue in operation until the earliest of three situations. First, the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency.  Second, the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations.  Or third, 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.

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2 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

Can you provide a link to the CDC emergency declaration? I believe you are confusing it with the CDC Extends Eviction Moratorium Through End of June.

Update: I found the latest order: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html, which I believe you are referring to:

This Order shall continue in operation until the earliest of three situations. First, the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency.  Second, the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations.  Or third, 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.

I heard it on the La Lido Loca youtube channel, but I'm at work right now and won't be able to link the specific video until I get home later the evening.

BTW: my comment was an interesting observation, not a prediction.  You are free to believe that something will happen in July or not.  Either way, we'll find out in a couple months!

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8 minutes ago, steverk said:

I heard it on the La Lido Loca youtube channel, but I'm at work right now and won't be able to link the specific video until I get home later the evening.

BTW: my comment was an interesting observation, not a prediction.  You are free to believe that something will happen in July or not.  Either way, we'll find out in a couple months!

Oh I hope cruises happen in July as I have one booked for the July 4th weekend. I'm just tired of waiting patiently and sitting around fearing the growth of "secretary hips", and on a guy that look is not good.???????

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17 minutes ago, princevaliantus said:

Oh I hope cruises happen in July as I have one booked for the July 4th weekend. I'm just tired of waiting patiently and sitting around fearing the growth of "secretary hips", and on a guy that look is not good.???????

I hope they do as well.  I did take a few moments for a quick bing search and found this.  It shows that the emergency declaration does vary somewhat in length, but has a history of 3 month extensions.

COVID-19 Public Health Emergency Declaration Renewed – Policy & Medicine

So, it's up on April 21.  Will it be extended? Almost certainly!

Will it be extended to July? We'll know next week.

Will it expire in July? Maybe. Maybe not. It is an interesting possibility though!

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18 hours ago, Ampurp85 said:

 

 

Your statement actually proves everyone points. People read headlines about one cruise ship that couldn't dock because we didn't know enough about Covid. And they think cruise ships are breeding grounds for viruses and germs. When in fact they are cleaned more often than the hotel, theme parks and stadiums most people frequent. Its not an issue of I want, what I want........but leveling the playing field. If every other form of travel and entertainment is allowed to commence, than so should cruises.

I disagree with your statement.  There are some people who read headlines and make assumptions not based on fact, not everyone.  Too often, comments are made that as they are written place a label on the entire group.  

 

I

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20 hours ago, wordell1 said:

I thought you were quite clear in your post.

Why are you "insulted" that the cruise industry wants to resume cruising?  The President is the one who mentioned July 4th as a goal for getting back some sense of normalcy.  The cruise industry is simply asking to be included in that.

I was. You need to re-read it.

"Why are you "insulted" that the cruise industry wants to resume cruising?" Where did that come from?  There is absolutely nothing in my writing that states or implles that.

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4 hours ago, steverk said:

Will it expire in July? Maybe. Maybe not. It is an interesting possibility though!

Possibility? Sure. Actually happening? I remain skeptical. The Biden administration's pandemic policy is overly cautious to the extent bad policy is developed. e.g. the FDA recommendation to pause J&J vaccines that became policy by approval. Costs exceed any benefit, IMO. Moreover, messaging remains confusing, often contradictory and hard to flesh out purpose and intent of it. Despite enormous pressure to lift the CSO from various quarters, the CDC needle hasn't moved. If anything we're seeing retrenchment, foot dragging and digging in of heels. 

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........I should add that the legislation just submitted that by law established by Congress would lift the CSO is a nice gesture. First it has to get out of committee and I'm not well enough informed or inclined to understand the whole process. Would welcome additional insight on this process and the chance a bill could go into affect in the next 30-45d. I don't think it is possible so, just more theater I would think.

The law suit filed by FL has a chance to move the needle but the State's Attorney office doesn't seem to be knocking on the door of the judge that will hear the case. There is such a thing as an expeditious or emergency hearing. The state is mum on that. My hope for that suit having an impact is fading. I gave it two weeks. There are two days left.

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3 hours ago, MaritimeR&R said:

I was. You need to re-read it.

"Why are you "insulted" that the cruise industry wants to resume cruising?" Where did that come from?  There is absolutely nothing in my writing that states or implles that.

I guess I'm confused. So you are for letting us cruise?

 

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1 hour ago, JeffB said:

........I should add that the legislation just submitted that by law established by Congress would lift the CSO is a nice gesture. First it has to get out of committee and I'm not well enough informed or inclined to understand the whole process. Would welcome additional insight on this process and the chance a bill could go into affect in the next 30-45d. I don't think it is possible so, just more theater I would think.

The law suit filed by FL has a chance to move the needle but the State's Attorney office doesn't seem to be knocking on the door of the judge that will hear the case. There is such a thing as an expeditious or emergency hearing. The state is mum on that. My hope for that suit having an impact is fading. I gave it two weeks. There are two days left.

Legislation might pass in 2040 or so ... which might still be faster than waiting on the CDC to voluntarily change ?

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A primary responsibility of a CEO is to maintain and increase the value of the company.   That's done by drawing and keeping investors buying the stock and corporate bonds.   CEOs will make such statements as a measure to show resolve/strength in leadership  and the "brand".    So not surprise at his comment - its about keeping things positive and a lean toward showing offensive / proactive position.  (Just as the other CEOs are also doing)

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