State of Florida Sues CDC Over Cruise Shut Down

[twangster]

And now I have that voice stuck in my head.

"Shall we play a game?"

 

[steverk]

2 hours ago, Loops said:

Once we get past the frivolous legal gymnastics, does anyone believe that the CDC has any intention to “mediate” in good faith?  Many of the demands they are making through the CSO might have been viewed by some as legitimate at the peak of the pandemic but are surely nonsensical overreach based on the facts on the ground today.

When the CDC is under pressure, they respond by "loosening" their restrictions, but throwing up another roadblock.  They are under immense pressure from several directions right now, so I think they'll make a show of being flexible.  However, the actual result will be less flexible than it first appears.

That said, the cruise lines are preparing for summer cruises from the US. Perhaps this means they think the CDC will really play ball this time.  Let's hope! But I'll believe it when I see it.

[twangster]

They've pulled the plug on Vision from Bermuda.

The cruise lines all appear to be convinced that a US restart is imminent.  They know something we don't.  

[smokeybandit]

Bermuda never really made sense as anything more than a stopgap.

 

Bahamas has the feel of a legit home port even once covid is long gone.

[smokeybandit]

Vision of the Seas June 6 to August 29, 2021: Vision of the Seas was to resume operations from Bermuda beginning June 2021. However, in anticipation for our U.S. return to service and following overwhelming feedback from our guests, the summer season in Bermuda will be cancelled.

[PG Cruiser]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Vision of the Seas June 6 to August 29, 2021: Vision of the Seas was to resume operations from Bermuda beginning June 2021. However, in anticipation for our U.S. return to service and following overwhelming feedback from our guests, the summer season in Bermuda will be cancelled.

Is this a quote or a wish?

[smokeybandit]

7 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

Is this a quote or a wish?

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/itinerary-updates

[PG Cruiser]

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/itinerary-updates

They got me at "in anticipation for our U.S. return to service"

[twangster]

While the past few weeks have certainly been tumultuous, we remain encouraged and excited about our progressive return to sailing. Recent conversations have led to promising movement for the cruise industry and are the necessary steppingstones to get Royal Caribbean^® back to what we do best – delivering the most memorable vacation experiences to both you and your clients!  
 
As a result of these developments, the likelihood of cruises setting sail from the U.S. this summer is greater each day, and with that, U.S. travelers are increasingly showing a preference for more direct access to ports of departure. Regrettably, the decision has been made to cancel Vision of the Seas^®’ summer season from Bermuda. While we are no longer homeporting from Bermuda, we still look forward to visiting the beautiful island nation with several ships across the Royal Caribbean fleet as we have for many years. We continue to work in close partnership with the Ministry of Transport and the Bermuda Tourism Authority towards our common goal of reviving local tourism as part of our larger return to service scope.   
 

[LovetoCruise87]

33 minutes ago, twangster said:

And now I have that voice stuck in my head.

"Shall we play a game?"

 

Thanks, now I do as well  lol

[twangster]

7 minutes ago, LovetoCruise87 said:

Thanks, now I do as well  lol

You are welcome!  Misery loves company...

[CGTLH]

Hate saying this, cancellation of Vision seems logical...

Sailing north-south along the Atlantic during hurricane season. Just seems to be a recipe for sailing delays and cancelations. Add to the mix the implied need of Freeport for provisions and fuel loading. Just seems too many bits that could have gone wrong.

[UNCFanatik]

It is good to see an update today. I am encouraged that they put out this communication today.

I am hopeful that the plan is succesful

[0_0]

 

Notice of mediation conference/hearing just filed. Who wants to donate to Pacer to get it? 

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, 0_0 said:

 

Notice of mediation conference/hearing just filed. Who wants to donate to Pacer to get it? 

Link?

[0_0]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Link?

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59804600/state-of-florida-v-becerra/#entry-58

[Matt]

Mediation scheduled for 9:30 a.m. on May 27, 2021.

047123019838.pdf

CC @dswallow for your records

[LizzyBee23]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Mediation scheduled for 9:30 a.m. on May 27, 2021.

047123019838.pdf 97.28 kB · 1 download

1 week! Eek.

[0_0]

I see they pushed it out past their anticipated guidance update at the end of this week. Maybe CDC is hoping Florida will agree to drop it after the new guidance is released and digested by the cruise lines. 

I feel like the renewed optimism of summer US cruises we're seeing from Royal plays into this theory.

[CrznTxn]

To me it amazing that the CDC is using a document from the Galveston Wharves dated July 2020 when we had no vaccine and really were trying to understand even the basics on how COVID_19 spread. As always they are a day late and a dollar short on current information and science.

[MaritimeR&R]

13 hours ago, JennieUnderwood said:

Not sure if this was posted yet, but on today's TA webinar - Vicki Freed said we should have restart information on next week's call (Wednesday).... fingers crossed!

Sure by next week most all cruises through August will be paid in full.  

[cruisinghawg]

20 minutes ago, MaritimeR&R said:

Sure by next week most all cruises through August will be paid in full.  

yep mine is due Monday for the Aug 22nd sailing

[JeffB]

13 hours ago, twangster said:

What the state said if you follow to their reply offered in this post:

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/boards/index.php?/topic/23217-florida-and-cdc-going-to-mediation/&do=findComment&comment=249163

 

Thanks @twangsterfor that. For those that haven't made their way through the link, it is beyond question that the CSO is unlawful on multiple grounds. I stand corrected. 

What I find strange is that this is a rejoinder and additional complaint to the first filing. Not sure why they added this ..... possibly to argue that mediation isn't an option for FL. The court must enjoin the CSO to provide the relief FL, et. al. seek. 

[Loops]

9 minutes ago, cruisinghawg said:

yep mine is due Monday for the Aug 22nd sailing

Are you on the Oasis out of Cape Liberty?  If so how are you feeling about whether RCL will sail out of Cape Liberty in August?  I’m concerned about NY/NJ/Murphy.

[cruisinghawg]

7 minutes ago, Loops said:

Are you on the Oasis out of Cape Liberty?  If so how are you feeling about whether RCL will sail out of Cape Liberty in August?  I’m concerned about NY/NJ/Murphy.

No Allure out of Canaveral. Not sure about any sailing at this point. I just wished politics was out of the equation and real medical personnel were making the recommendations. 

[JeffB]

1 hour ago, 0_0 said:

I see they pushed it out past their anticipated guidance update at the end of this week. Maybe CDC is hoping Florida will agree to drop it after the new guidance is released and digested by the cruise lines. 

I feel like the renewed optimism of summer US cruises we're seeing from Royal plays into this theory.

I think FL has hardened its position if the filing yesterday in responce to HHS memo is an indicator. I think they think they can win, will not settle at mediation and press for Merryday to rule. If the CSO is immediately enjoined before mid June, sailings will start in July......lines have been preparing for that. At worst, the CSO will be significantly less burdensome out of mediation.

[LovetoCruise87]

1 hour ago, MaritimeR&R said:

Sure by next week most all cruises through August will be paid in full.  

Mine for Aug 22 is already paid

[Phoenix]

23 minutes ago, JeffB said:

I think FL has hardened its position if the filing yesterday in responce to HHS memo is an indicator. I think they think they can win, will not settle at mediation and press for Merryday to rule. If the CSO is immediately enjoined before mid June, sailings will start in July......lines have been preparing for that. At worst, the CSO will be significantly less burdensome out of mediation.

This is total speculation. No one knows what any parties stance is.

This case is currently marked "STAYED" pending mediation.

They also have to submit a Redacted Transcript with a Deadline of 06/14/2021.

The parties have scheduled mediation before Joseph H. Varner III, beginning at 9:30 a.m. on May 27, 2021.

There was an ORDER granting motion by ASTA to submit an amicus brief; permitting ASTA to submit an amicus brief by 5/21/2021; denying as moot motion for leave to reply. Signed by Judge Steven D. Merryday on 5/18/2021.

There is so many things going on in the background that the public doesn't know and/or see.

As I see this timeline and other things running in the background that most don't see , I think a July start date is a bit premature.

[steverk]

I certainly agree that we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.  

Whatever it is,  the cruise lines appear confident it will allow them to open up pretty soon. That's encouraging! 

[wolfganghowell]

Not sure how they can say Texas has not proved economic impact.  Galveston is the 3rd busiest port in the country.  Royal was about to start construction on a new pier. 1000's of jobs impacted in addition to the usual hotel/restaurant/airline/etc etc.

[Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, wolfganghowell said:

Not sure how they can say Texas has not proved economic impact.  Galveston is the 3rd busiest port in the country.  Royal was about to start construction on a new pier. 1000's of jobs impacted in addition to the usual hotel/restaurant/airline/etc etc.

All good points!!

[JeffB]

29 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

This is total speculation. No one knows what any parties stance is.

Of course it is. Did you read FL's filing from yesterday? It's the first time I've seen FL's position allege the CSO is unlawful. It strips away 264a's assumed authority under which the CSO was undertaken. It's a very strong legal position that I've not seen unwrapped. I take it as an indicator. That's all.

[JasonOasis]

44 minutes ago, steverk said:

I certainly agree that we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.  

Whatever it is,  the cruise lines appear confident it will allow them to open up pretty soon. That's encouraging! 

I certainly hope so.

I just got home from a 6 day vacation in Las Vegas and except for concerts and Cirque du Soleil every thing  on the strip and Fremont street is wide open without capacity limits. I've been putting off using any vacation days this year hoping cruising will return but I needed a mental break, and the funny thing was when the CDC announce no mask for the vaccinated within the hour people at the Venetian were taking off their masks. By the next morning I would say 95% of people had no mask on and this was at every hotel we went to. Our last vacation was to Cabo late last year everyone inside the resort was masked. But it was amazing to be in Vegas inside these fabulous hotels in the casinos going to comedy shows, the nightclubs are open no social distancing and no one is wearing a mask while indoors, yet I still can not set foot on a cruise ship.  What is the difference between the Venetian and the Oasis of the Seas?  I hope something happens to help the cruise industry out in this country because if Venetian had to adhere to even half of the restrictions the CDC has put on cruise lines they wouldn't be open right now especially not at 100% capacity.

[UNCFanatik]

25 minutes ago, JasonOasis said:

I certainly hope so.

I just got home from a 6 day vacation in Las Vegas and except for concerts and Cirque du Soleil every thing  on the strip and Fremont street is wide open without capacity limits. I've been putting off using any vacation days this year hoping cruising will return but I needed a mental break, and the funny thing was when the CDC announce no mask for the vaccinated within the hour people at the Venetian were taking off their masks. By the next morning I would say 95% of people had no mask on and this was at every hotel we went to. Our last vacation was to Cabo late last year everyone inside the resort was masked. But it was amazing to be in Vegas inside these fabulous hotels in the casinos going to comedy shows, the nightclubs are open no social distancing and no one is wearing a mask while indoors, yet I still can not set foot on a cruise ship.  What is the difference between the Venetian and the Oasis of the Seas?  I hope something happens to help the cruise industry out in this country because if Venetian had to adhere to even half of the restrictions the CDC has put on cruise lines they wouldn't be open right now especially not at 100% capacity.

I always thought that Vegas hotels and all inclusive hotels were the closest comparisons to cruise ship environments. I agree that now that Vegas is 100% open then there is no reason not to drop the CSO and let cruising begin in July. 

I believe as @JeffBpointed out in the Alaskan thread that the political climate is turning in favor of cruising returning this summer. There is no way that Alaskan Bill would have passed both House and Senate if the politicians didnt see the winds changing. This administration needs some wins right now and return to normalcy in all areas.

 

[teddy]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

And now I have that voice stuck in my head.

"Shall we play a game?"

 

Wow. 
 

This takes me back. 

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, teddy said:

Wow. 
 

This takes me back. 

Yeah.  Watching the screen slowly fill very simple graphics takes me back to the internet experience I had when I used to sail Carnival.

[LovetoCruise87]

Mediation is set for May 27 at 9:30am

[LovetoCruise87]

Have I really been waiting this long for my next cruise?

 

[CGTLH]

Not sure of this change impacts anything. The mediator is now Magistrate Judge Anthony Porcelli.

[deep1]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:14 AM, Loops said:

Are you on the Oasis out of Cape Liberty?  If so how are you feeling about whether RCL will sail out of Cape Liberty in August?  I’m concerned about NY/NJ/Murphy.

Murphy is a case study in power tripping over blown ego. Needs to be exported to Antarctica . The ports however are Pretty much federal and in a "place of their own". Port Authority is multi state. Then the Fed then its highly unionized which even the toughest of the politicians yield to up here... As anti everything opening as he is he may not have the muscle to keep the port closed...