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State of Florida Sues CDC Over Cruise Shut Down


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2 hours ago, twangster said:

This is the effect that CDC was hoping for.  It seems they have succeeded.  

They are saving you.  You can thank them later.  

I'm getting ready to thank Rochelle Walensky in very clear English  when I get back from the Bahamas and Keys next week. 

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2 hours ago, twangster said:

This is the effect that CDC was hoping for.  It seems they have succeeded.  

They are saving you.  You can thank them later.  

Just sent a little love her way on Facebook... Its important to note that even as mad as we are communications need to remain respectful and to the point. In presenting our case I would think the largest impact it may have on them  is that the industry supports what amounts to a number of people equal in population to the CDC's home Atlanta... 

 

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Governors of MD, VA, AK, LA, HI and PR are all calling on the CDC to open up.

 

https://www.winnmediaskn.com/governors-of-five-states-and-puerto-rico-sign-on-to-bryans-letter-to-cdc-calling-for-the-easing-of-cruise-travel-restrictions/

 

Then there's this article which I don't have access to read, but I'd be real curious if the headline was accurate

 

 

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36 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Then there's this article which I don't have access to read, but I'd be real curious if the headline was accurate

I paid the paywall (it's a business expense for me) and here's the jist

Director of the maritime division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Martin Cetron was interviewed.

“In an ideal setting where we don’t have an overwhelming fourth wave of variants that are unresponsive to our mitigation strategies, that if all things go well as planned...I think with following the guidance we laid out we can all probably get to a place of partial resumption of sailing in July.”

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Well that's promising. The guy seems to be someone whose opinion should be listened to:

 

Director, Division of Global Migration and Quarantine

Martin Cetron, MD, is the Director for the Division of Global Migration and Quarantine (DGMQ) at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).  Dr. Cetron holds faculty appointments in the Division of Infectious Disease at the Emory University School of Medicine and the Department of Epidemiology at Rollins School of Public Health. He received his B.A. from Dartmouth College in 1981 and his M.D. from Tufts University in 1985. He trained in Internal Medicine at the University of Virginia and Infectious Diseases at the University of Washington before joining the CDC’s Epidemic Intelligence Service and becoming a Commissioned Officer in the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) in 1992. His primary research interests are global health and migration with a focus on emerging infections, tropical diseases, and vaccine-preventable diseases in mobile populations. Dr. Cetron has co-authored more than 100 publications.  Dr. Cetron has also been a leader in public health emergency preparedness and response activities at CDC and is a graduate of the Harvard School of Public Health & Kennedy School of Government’s National Preparedness Leadership Institute.  For over 20 years, he has conducted epidemiologic research globally, developed global health policy and led domestic and international outbreak investigations including high profile international emergency responses to emerging infectious disease outbreaks [Anthrax bioterrorism 2001, SARS epidemic 2003, U.S. Monkeypox 2003,  Hurricane Katrina/ Rita 2005, H1N1 influenza pandemic 2009, Haiti Earthquake / Cholera Responses 2010-11, Japan Tsunami-Radiation 2011, H7N9 2013, and MERS CoV 2012-3, Coronavirus Response (2013), Unaccompanied Children Central America (2014), Ebola Response (2014) & Zika Virus (2015)].

Dr. Cetron has been a consultant to several WHO Expert Committees: the US delegation intergovernmental negotiations of IHR 2005, the Pandemic Influenza and IHR Review Panel 2010, and the IHR emergency committee roster of independent experts. He also was elected in 2016 for a fellowship with IDSA (Infectious Diseases Society of America) & ASTMH (American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene).

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22 minutes ago, Matt said:

I paid the paywall (it's a business expense for me) and here's the jist

Director of the maritime division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Martin Cetron was interviewed.

“In an ideal setting where we don’t have an overwhelming fourth wave of variants that are unresponsive to our mitigation strategies, that if all things go well as planned...I think with following the guidance we laid out we can all probably get to a place of partial resumption of sailing in July.”

So ... still "no" ...

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5 hours ago, Matt said:

I paid the paywall (it's a business expense for me) and here's the jist

Director of the maritime division at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Martin Cetron was interviewed.

“In an ideal setting where we don’t have an overwhelming fourth wave of variants that are unresponsive to our mitigation strategies, that if all things go well as planned...I think with following the guidance we laid out we can all probably get to a place of partial resumption of sailing in July.”

Didn't the cruiseline's already say the guidance put forth was un-workable?

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On 4/2/2021 at 5:13 AM, Traveler said:

4. The number of people who are allowed on the ship will be calculate by the fowling simple formula  length of the ship divided by the number of floors multiply by the integral of the ship stern multiply by square root   of -1/2 + image.png.db6b8c2674bb61860aad8ddef1f02169.png  but no more than 10.5 including the crew.

I'm just happy to see the Navier-Stokes equation on a cruise forum.

Edit: and used appropriately, since as far as I know, there's still a millennium prize out there for anyone who can solve it (meaning as far as we know, it's unsolvable).

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Port of Galveston adds their voice:

https://www.portofgalveston.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=166

OPEN PLEA TO THE CDC: ALLOW PHASED CRUISING NOW

As CEO and port director of the fourth most popular cruise port in North America and the only cruise port in Texas, I am joining Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), major cruise lines and many others in calling for the CDC to lift the Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and allow safe, sustainable phased cruising to begin in July.
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7 minutes ago, twangster said:

Kind of big news.  DeSantis is suing the CDC.

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31 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Kind of big news.  DeSantis is suing the CDC.

GOOD! The CDC needs to be called out on their double standard BS!

They're still holding on to the the idea of outbreaks similar to what happened on Diamond Princess OVER A YEAR AGO and paying no mind to the FACTS that we now have testing, health checks, mitigation measures, numerous other protocols, treatments, and, oh yeah, VACCINES!

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17 minutes ago, twangster said:

Now we need Texas and Alaska to join the lawsuit, or file their own.  

 

Do you suspect now that Florida has done this, and given if this has any real strength to it, that those other states will feel inclined to join and up the pressure? I know it's pure speculation as I ask... 

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6 minutes ago, nhilding10 said:

Do you suspect now that Florida has done this, and given if this has any real strength to it, that those other states will feel inclined to join and up the pressure? I know it's pure speculation as I ask... 

If the suit has proper legal merit and standing I do see other states getting involved.  

However I don't play an AG on TV so...

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7 minutes ago, twangster said:

If the suit has proper legal merit and standing I do see other states getting involved.  

However I don't play an AG on TV so...

Just like the statements two week ago, Florida lead they jumped on, I think if there is merit they will be signed on by end of day tomorrow.

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6 minutes ago, twangster said:

There is risk with this maneuver.  If the CDC wins they'll extend the industry shutdown which very much might just kill it.  

However given the CDC's clear indication of refusing to work with the industry that was the likely outcome without this lawsuit.  

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

We all believe, admittedly with some of our own bias, just how biased the CDC is against the cruise industry, and just how bad these double-standards are, and how unfair they are, but I know nothing about the legal implications and the landscape this will play out on. Without knowing the proper context of the lawsuit and what it goes after; I still can't but help thinking, how in the heck could the CDC win this one? How could anyone with any sense of reasonable judgment look at that compared to other industries and what they HAVE allowed, and not rule in the cruise lines' favor? I say that with full knowledge of how ridiculous the CDC is, but I'd love to see how they argue this in a court and spin it. 

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Since I am not in the US and do not have access to local TV there  , did one of the cruise companies or CLIA have done any commercials describing all the work place they are adding in Miami and in the US ? 

Something like , when you tale a cruise you are given jobs to the local porters , the taxi drivers you take to the ports  ,the hotel worker you are staying before and after  , the  people that works at the food providers facilities, the waiter in the restaurant and many many others .   

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9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Since I am not in the US and do not have access to local TV there  , did one of the cruise companies or CLIA have done any commercials describing all the work place they are adding in Miami and in the US ? 

Something like , when you tale a cruise you are given jobs to the local porters , the taxi drivers you take to the ports  ,the hotel worker you are staying before and after  , the  people that works at the food providers facilities, the waiter in the restaurant and many many others .   

The court of public opinion isn't going to sway the CDC.  I'm not sure TV commercials that educate the public on industry impact would accomplish anything.  

CLIA is global in nature with a focus beyond the USA.

You can read their annual state of the industry here.

https://cruising.org/en/news-and-research/research/2020/december/state-of-the-cruise-industry-outlook-2021

Page 24 addresses world wide economic impact.  

I don't see them spending money that target one region.

 

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57 minutes ago, twangster said:

Now we need Texas and Alaska to join the lawsuit, or file their own.  

Maybe California will contemplate convening a study to explore the idea of considering a tentative involvement in a limited commitment to a flexible proposal surrounding the concept of engaging in preliminary discussions with the CDC.

I will provide an update on this in 6 months.

 

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21 minutes ago, AlmondFarmer said:

Maybe California will contemplate convening a study to explore the idea of considering a tentative involvement in a limited commitment to a flexible proposal surrounding the concept of engaging in preliminary discussions with the CDC.

 

DrSteveBrule.gif

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26 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

And in my opinion, he is doing it for the state of Florida and the people who are affected by the shut down of the cruise industry.  People may be quick to judge him and say it's only a political stunt but if he makes it happen many people will benefit.

 

A stunt is saying you are looking into a lawsuit.  

Filing an actual lawsuit rises above "stunt".

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To illustrate the impact of one ship leaving Florida and sailing from the Bahamas, Michael Bayley recently estimated just under 2,000 guests per weekend will be sailing from Nassau. That sounds about right for a ship at 50% capacity.

CLIA has calculated the average cruise ship guest spends $385 in the home port before boarding a cruise.

1,800 x $385 = $693,000 per weekend not being spent in Florida bars, restaurants, hotels, taxis, etc.

That's one ship at reduced capacity.

Multiple it by two for full capacity and multiple it by many more for all ships across all lines sailing from Florida on any given weekend.

That should give you an idea of what's at stake for Florida.

And that doesn't include any of the other spend by the cruise lines for supplies and such, or other related jobs the industry supports.   

 

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I'm in favor of anything that moves the needle towards ships restarting.

I'm not still not clear under what tort they are suing, but it's good to see more support for cruises.  I think we call felt that for much of 2020, it was cruisers vs the world/CDC.  Now it seems that narrative has shifted considerably.

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