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CDC reiterates restrictions until November 1st, 2021


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Just heard on CNBC that the CDC is basically ignoring any communication and guidance from CLIA and the Mayor of Miami recently and not changing their stance on the Conditional sail order. Instead of having cruises lifted by July under certain conditions, the CDC (aka Can't Do Cruising / Can't Do Crap) has stated they will not change or lift any restrictions until November 1st of this year. Bunch of BS if you ask me.

I think it's time to seriously start considering cruises departing not from a US port. The CDC is not on the cruise line side and it's so blatantly obvious. They allow all other travel modes but not cruising even though it is the safest w/protocols etc.

Cruise stocks took a big hit intraday including RCL.

I hate the CDC ?

May be an image of 1 person and text that says '[+0.35% CRUISE OPERATORS CARNIVAL CORP. (CCL) 25.42 +0.09 NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE (NCLH) 26.55 -0.06 [-0.21% ROYAL CARIBBEAN (RCL) 83.73 0.17 [-0.20% CNBC ARKET FLASH 6:22 CNBC CRUISE STOCKS DROP SHARPLY AS CDC RUSS 2K REITERATES CRUISE LIMITS IN EFFECT UNTIL NOV. VIX TRANSP. y'21) 110.3 S&P/GSCI (Apr'21) 471.2 VIX Index (Apr'21) 22 S&P 500 M) 130.13 2.39 Moderna Inc (MRNA) 134.45 2.08 Invesco 3,927.17'

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11 minutes ago, Matt said:

Here's my question.... did CDC's "statement" today simply reitterate the current company line right now? Similar to how Royal Caribbean says cruises will restart in June....until the next round of cancellations.

Meaning, they are giving the Nov 1 date, but it could be rescinded earlier?

Yes, they reiterated it in response to the CLIA request to restart cruising 

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In my don't believe a thing the MSM says mode, the CLIA announcement is quoted and while I can't find a link to the CLIA announcement's text, the verbiage is appearing at the usual places like Cruise News. I've not seen anything resembling a quote from Walenski or someone close to her in the organization identifying whether the CDC actually responded directly CLIA today with a date certain of November, 2021.   I don't think Fauci, from Allergies and Infectious Disease, has said anything either. He is the face of US infection control. I'd be looking to him to say something that won't be specific - he rarely is - but will try to present a happy, encouraging face.  

I do think it's pretty clear that the temperature in the room has risen - RCI starts sailing from ports easily reachable from the US and outside the CDC/US Treasury's jurisdiction, Fain is pretty clear that he's done waiting for the "technicals" to be provided to his company that were supposed to be provided months ago according to the CSO. RCI and others are operating cruise ships in parts of Europe and Asia. Launch the boats!..... and more are coming.

Most of us have been calling for a hard stand by cruise industry big-wigs and CLIA. We'll we have it. I'm thinking we need to see how the US government responds over the next week or so. The CDC may be moved to the back of the room and assigned an advisory role. CDC claims they really aren't in charge of deciding when the cruise industry sails again. Statements like that are usually a lead in to a punt to someone else higher up in the chain of command. Stuff like this is usually some kind of face saving effort on the part of government officials to circle the wagons and not let the CDC appear to have fumbled the ball on this. Too bad it is obvious they have and they have egg all over their faces. Something I think Fain and his colleagues were trying to prevent. Too bad, times up.

Bottom line, I'm not buying restarts until after November 1st.

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I wish the CDC would just give a straight answer. If the answer is on Nov 1 we will lift the order and you can cruise out of the US just say so. That way cruise lines can plan and the public can also plan. I want to go on a Thanksgiving cruise and a New Years cruise.. If the order is listed by Nov 1 that can happen but if it isn't am I going to have to rebook a cruise out of Nassau?? Its so very frustrating

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I just read the article in USA Today and I'm literally fuming right now.  For the CDC spokesperson to say so defiantly the CDC's CSO remains in effect until November 1st is ridiculous.  Even USA Today pointed out to the CDC last year they stated guidelines would be forthcoming and yet there have been no guidelines not a single one communicated to cruise lines.  The CDC has done nothing but sit on its hands for the past 5 months, and now when multiple news agencies and the Mayor of Miami start asking hard questions the spokespersons response was the CSO remains in effect until November 1st this is 100% unacceptable.  Which means the CDC has done absolutely nothing behind the scenes to resume cruising in this country all they are doing is stringing along this industry with no intentions of giving any updates.

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Do we have a link to this "spokesperson's" actual quote allegedly in response to the public release of the CLIA position (link to that is above) saying "defiantly the CDC's CSO remains in effect until November 1st?" 

I'm not about to believe CNN or CNBC on this one. There was an article in the NYT's on line this morning writing about a negative COVID bias in news reporting. A study was undertaken to compare positive to negative press reporting among MSM (CNN was one of them). 87% of the reporting was negative. Meanwhile, scientific reports and journals were generally balanced or positive.

There is no story if the CDC doesn't respond (I suspect they may not have). There's a juicy story if they responded like CNN is reporting they allegedly did. 

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1 hour ago, JeffB said:

I'm not about to believe CNN or CNBC on this one. There was an article in the NYT's on line this morning writing about a negative COVID bias in news reporting. A study was undertaken to compare positive to negative press reporting among MSM (CNN was one of them). 87% of the reporting was negative. Meanwhile, scientific reports and journals were generally balanced or positive.

I read this article as well. I was happy to finally see someone actually doing JOURNALISM. 

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1 hour ago, JeffB said:

87% of the reporting was negative

Negative news generates interest.  Interest means ad revenue.

Positive news is great but doesn't tend to generate revenue for the media.  

Several cable news outlets put out blatantly incorrect stories because it generates interest and ad revenue.  They aren't reporting "news" they are creating it because it sells and they make more money.

It's all about money.

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1 hour ago, JeffB said:

Do we have a link to this "spokesperson's" actual quote allegedly in response to the public release of the CLIA position (link to that is above) saying "defiantly the CDC's CSO remains in effect until November 1st?" 

Not definitely, but it does list November 1, 2021 as one of the potential end dates if it precedes the other two situations that could lift the order.  I think this has always been the date, though?

It's on their website: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.htmlcruise.thumb.png.48cf9369f599c5cbf87291ee50358e88.png

 

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My read on what transpired>>>>  Mind you I have seen the CLIA statement but not an official CDC rep  for the response.  Just what was reported. The statement was meant to say the Nov date is STILL in effect and no decisions regarding  the recent request by Miami Dade and todays CLIA have been made YET and that the order AT THIS TIME still stands... I see CNN, CNBC and NYT involved with the reporting and if you adhere to what they sell as "press" I have an oceanfront condo in Kansas you need to buy...

 

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6 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

NOW that the CDC announced no sailing till November, let's see what RCG is going to do with all those months of reservations.   RCG and other cruise lines have just been put on notice by the CDC. Cancellations and/or still take cruisers money. I can smell a class action brewing.

They "announced " that last October... They are saying (I Think) No meetings have taken place so nothing has changed. AT THIS TIME

 

 

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10 hours ago, deep1 said:

They "announced " that last October... They are saying (I Think) No meetings have taken place so nothing has changed. AT THIS TIME

 

 

Let me rephrase it. The CDC publicly made a statement reiterating that the no-sail order is to remain in place until Nov. 1st despite cruise association requests. Here and now, ALL cruise lines have been put on notice publicly. Inasmuch, are ANY cruise lines going to drag the cancellations and/or keep taking the public's money via reservations for the dates of the "order" despite they now know that nothing is moving till later this year?? IF the cruise lines take that stance, they could be facing a class-action suit.  Knowing and willful deceit is frowned upon in any business transaction.

Case at bar: The prohibition of 18 U.S.C. § 1001 requires that the false statement, concealment or cover up be "knowingly and willfully" done, which means that "The statement must have been made with an intent to deceive, a design to induce belief in the falsity or to mislead, but § 1001 does not require an intent to defraud -- that is, the intent to deprive someone of something by means of deceit." United States v. Lichenstein, 610 F.2d 1272, 1276-77 (5th Cir.), cert. denied, 447 U.S. 907 (1980).

This is something that ALL cruise lines should really take their time and think as I'm already seeing talk about legal ramifications.

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I remain troubled regarding the implications of this thread's title and several of the posts within it affirming that a renewed stand against the restart of cruising from US ports by the CDC was precipitated by CLIA's press release yesterday. Other than reports yesterday on CNN and CNBC that a CDC spokesperson responded to the CLIA press release by saying, as if this was new and in the present tense, cruising won't resume from the US until November 1st (paraphrased), a CDC spokesperson isn't identified. I conclude that CNN/CNBC probably added the report they claim was a from a CDC spokesperson erroneously.

It's already been pointed out the November 1st date applies to the original issuance of the CSO. Nothing new. What is new is that Fain and CLIA are making their case against the arbitrariness of the CSO more strongly than before. That's the good news but we do not know how the CDC is going to respond to those overtures. Walaneski did make a statement yesterday and the link below is to it. The video is included in an AP story that is very positive with regard to the state of the global pandemic. Walenski acknowledges that but continues to caveat the positive news with a cloak of pessimistic pronouncements. This isn't anything new. Both Fauci and Walneski have continually wrapped good news with more bad news. There's no question in my mind that the CDC still beleives the CSO shouldn't be updated or changed in any substantial way for a while. I think the cruise lines know this and are taking the steps we are seeing with an expansion of operations from foreign ports accordingly. I think there were a few people here who predicted that would happen if the CDC continued to stone wall cruise lines.

https://www.9news.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/us-improving-covid-19-vaccinations-rise-deaths-fall/507-c9ace044-8434-4bcb-92b3-cea03c03ebb9

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17 hours ago, JeffB said:

Do we have a link to this "spokesperson's" actual quote allegedly in response to the public release of the CLIA position (link to that is above) saying "defiantly the CDC's CSO remains in effect until November 1st?" 

I have yet to see any proof of this statement either.

Moreover, even if it is true, it just sounds like someone reiterating the CSO is in effect until Nov 1. They didn't say it wouldn't be rescinded or has zero chance of changing.  The alleged quote is kind of like when Royal Caribbean tweets to someone cruises will start in June.

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14 minutes ago, Matt said:

I have yet to see any proof of this statement either.

Moreover, even if it is true, it just sounds like someone reiterating the CSO is in effect until Nov 1. They didn't say it wouldn't be rescinded or has zero chance of changing.  The alleged quote is kind of like when Royal Caribbean tweets to someone cruises will start in June.

Agreed. I think what's getting lost in the mix here is that the CSO is a CONDITIONAL SAIL ORDER. It is NOT a NO SAIL order. 

I don't think that anyone is expecting that cruises will be free of any/all COVID restrictions before the November 1 date.

What we DO expect to actually "conditionally sail" rather than just being continually denied by the CDC.

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18 hours ago, twangster said:

Negative news generates interest.  Interest means ad revenue.

Positive news is great but doesn't tend to generate revenue for the media.  

Several cable news outlets put out blatantly incorrect stories because it generates interest and ad revenue.  They aren't reporting "news" they are creating it because it sells and they make more money.

It's all about money.

Here Here! Journalism as it was conceived in the last century is dead. Sacrificed on the altar of profit.

 

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21 hours ago, johnt83 said:

The CDC is not on the cruise line side and it's so blatantly obvious. They allow all other travel modes but not cruising even though it is the safest w/protocols etc.

Here is my take on this.  

With other modes of travel, if a case of COVID that needs medical attention is found , they can turn around, make emergency landings, etc.  That would be difficult to do with a cruise ship, especially if it is in the middle of the ocean.

Another thing, cruising is not a necessity, it is non-essential. We can even say it is a luxury.  Other modes of travel are needed to be in operation to keep essential business going.

Please don't think I'm being insensitive to the plight of cruise crew members.  Half my church in the Philippines are displaced cruise ship workers, my sons included. Their savings have all been depleted after a year of not working.  I want them to be called back to work again but when I think of the accommodations and living conditions of crew members in "steerage", I have second thoughts.  I don't know how much care they will get from the ships' medical crew if they get COVID.  Vaccination is hard to get in the Philippines at the moment.

I want to be able to cruise again as much as many people here but I'm being realistic.   I know the CDC is not perfect but I believe it is doing what it can to be a part of the solution, not the problem.

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14 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

Here is my take on this.  

With other modes of travel, if a case of COVID that needs medical attention is found , they can turn around, make emergency landings, etc.  That would be difficult to do with a cruise ship, especially if it is in the middle of the ocean.

Another thing, cruising is not a necessity, it is non-essential. We can even say it is a luxury.  Other modes of travel are needed to be in operation to keep essential business going.

Please don't think I'm being insensitive to the plight of cruise crew members.  Half my church in the Philippines are displaced cruise ship workers, my sons included. Their savings have all been depleted after a year of not working.  I want them to be called back to work again but when I think of the accommodations and living conditions of crew members in "steerage", I have second thoughts.  I don't know how much care they will get from the ships' medical crew if they get COVID.  Vaccination is hard to get in the Philippines at the moment.

I want to be able to cruise again as much as many people here but I'm being realistic.   I know the CDC is not perfect but I believe it is doing what it can to be a part of the solution, not the problem.

Well said. I still think the CDC continuously delaying their guidelines to be sent to the cruise lines is unacceptable, this is why everyone is upset.

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I can't get my head around the CDC banning cruises from the US but allowing US citizens to get on a flight to go on a cruise, where's the logic in that? If crusing is bad for your health, does it make any difference where in the world you cruise?

Here in the UK we are currently not allowed to leave the country for a vacation, but they've agreed we can go on a cruise in UK waters, our governments logic being it keeps us away from the Brazil and South Africa varients.

All in all, what a mess.

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48 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

Here is my take on this.  

With other modes of travel, if a case of COVID that needs medical attention is found , they can turn around, make emergency landings, etc.  That would be difficult to do with a cruise ship, especially if it is in the middle of the ocean.

Another thing, cruising is not a necessity, it is non-essential. We can even say it is a luxury.  Other modes of travel are needed to be in operation to keep essential business going.

Please don't think I'm being insensitive to the plight of cruise crew members.  Half my church in the Philippines are displaced cruise ship workers, my sons included. Their savings have all been depleted after a year of not working.  I want them to be called back to work again but when I think of the accommodations and living conditions of crew members in "steerage", I have second thoughts.  I don't know how much care they will get from the ships' medical crew if they get COVID.  Vaccination is hard to get in the Philippines at the moment.

I want to be able to cruise again as much as many people here but I'm being realistic.   I know the CDC is not perfect but I believe it is doing what it can to be a part of the solution, not the problem.

With that said...

Here are other businesses that are non-essential and a luxury to some people as well but are allowed to resume operations:

1. Airlines. 

2. Restaurants

3. Casinos

4. Hotels

5. Sports and attending games

6. Colleges

7. Massage parlors

8. Nail Salons

9. Gyms

10. Certain Retail Stores

Keeping Cruising suspended for 2 seasons affects more than just passengers and crew. It affects all the jobs created at the Embarkation port cities in the US as well. Port Workers, Hotels, restaurants, etc. Even the airlines are affect because of less flights being scheduled because of cruising is shut down. Thus, jobs lost, layoffs and furloughs. I understand that the CDC is concerned with the physical well being but that is where policy needs to be set looking at all factors, including economics which in turn create their own set of societal issues. This where pressure needs to be put on local governments and politicians in the areas that are hardest hit with economic loss.

Just look at how the "science" changed from the CDC with schools reopening. All of a sudden the magic 6ft rule is now 3ft. The CDC is ignoring the science in this case in 2021 and refusing to look at the data in other parts of the world where cruising has resumed 

The CDC and US Government at large is making a big mistake if they do not allow cruises to return to the US before November 1. 

 

 

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Two points:

(1) The problem I have with the US Government's stand on the resumption of cruise ship operations from US ports, articulated through the CDC and their CSO is that it represents government over-reach and abuse of it's lawful authority. But I understand why it appears government is moving at a glacial pace to rectify that. Let's be clear, there are a lot government agencies involved in this. It's hard to identify who might have the authority to modify the CSO in accordance with the provisions of it.

Generally, these agencies are acting on the basis of a public health emergency declared by then Secretary of Health and Human Services, Alex Azar. He's gone being replaced by Dr. Rachael Levine who was just confirmed yesterday I believe. Is she the gal? The underlying law for the port closures allow port authorities to deny ships to operate in and out of them that may present risks to the public health. Everything the CDC is doing is lawful, aggrieved parties know it is and that's why this overreach is not being challenged in the courts.  

From my perspective, the CDC has the responsibility to recommend public health policy to HHS. If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, they may very well have submitted  modifications or recommended implementation of phases 2,3,4 of the CSO and, "it's being staffed by involved agencies." That's going to cause delays and the chaffing of interested parties to the continuation of the the CSO that right now is simply a ban, not a plan to return to cruising. Keep in mind, I suspect HHS and its new Secretary is bogged down by a lot of issues right now, vaccine procurement and distribution and immigration being among them. 

(2) I was able to identify the name of the person within the CDC that was quoted what amounts to a reiteration of existing policy - that's all. It wasn't something new, it wasn't a middle finger to the cruise industry. It was a statement recapping existing policy. Her name is Catlin Shockey she is Associate Director for Communications for CDC's Division of Global Migration and Quarantine. I believe she sent an email in response to journalist's questions about the CLIA press release.

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