Italy prepares for an Easter lockdown as Covid-19 cases grow exponentially

[princevaliantus]

Seems as the Med are still having issues: 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/13/europe/italy-coronavirus-national-lockdown-intl/index.html

[Jill]

RCG did the right thing moving Odyssey. I’m super bummed about being cancelled but Italy is a mess. 

[JeffB]

The problem for the EU right now - THE #1 problem that needs coordinated and cooperative attention among member states is - obtaining and distributing vaccines. What is happening in Italy was entirely avoidable if vaccines had been obtained and distributed within EU nations at the same rate that they were obtained and distributed in the UK, US and similarly in Israel and the UAE. The EUC should rightfully be pilloried and I've heard of moves by frustrated governments, Italy and Greece in particular, to obtain their own vaccine supplies and not wait on the EUC to get its act together.

I don't claim to fully understand what the EUC's role in all of this is. I have read some but you know the phrase, "excuses are like (***) ..... every one has one." Europe in general did great in containing SARS-2 and had a leg up on everyone else until they blew it with vaccines, including the non-sense with questions about the safety of the AZ product. Concerns about that are without basis according to many yet, ????? . Selfishly I want to yell at Ursula von der Leyen and I suspect I'm not alone.

[Ray]

41 minutes ago, JeffB said:

What is happening in Italy was entirely avoidable if vaccines had been obtained and distributed within EU nations at the same rate that they were obtained and distributed in the UK, US and similarly in Israel and the UAE. 

EU has more than twice the population of US so it needs a lot more vaccine to go around. 

Uk is only giving 1 shot not the recommended 2 shots as other European countries are doing. Im 52 and have just been diagnosed with a heart condition yet i have still not heard anything about getting my 1st shot.

 Where some countries have held onto their vaccines just for themselves,  vaccines made in EU countries have been shipped to other parts of the world such as Mexico to help fight the virus and when italy decides to withhold shipment heading for OZ it starts issues that will end in a court battle.

Cant blame countries or governments just the people who havent followed the rules 

[JLMoran]

35 minutes ago, Ray said:

m 52 and have just been diagnosed with a heart condition

Sorry to hear this, Ray. Hope that it's treatable and not anything that will lead to long-term problems.

And does this mean that now you have to switch from Scotch and beer to red wine? They say it's good for your heart, after all.

[Ray]

23 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

 

And does this mean that now you have to switch from Scotch and beer to red wine? They say it's good for your heart, after all.

Never been a whisky drinker, hate the stuff. But i have stopped smoking! 10 days now cold turkey,  had to be done.

[mattymay]

As Ray said the EU are a bit unpopular here as they are blocking shipments of the AZ vaccine that was destined for Australia so it can be used in Italy instead. 
 

That being said there is basically no COVID here anyways so I’m not sure it really matters.

[smokeybandit]

I'm surprised at how the vaccine roll outs have been in Europe.  Seems a lot of in fighting.

[Ray]

13 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm surprised at how the vaccine roll outs have been in Europe.  Seems a lot of in fighting.

Because we all basically hate each other!!! 

 

 

[Mike.s]

11 hours ago, Ray said:

Uk is only giving 1 shot not the recommended 2 shots as other European countries are doing. Im 52 and have just been diagnosed with a heart condition yet i have still not heard anything about getting my 1st shot.

All depends where in the UK you are, the joyus postcode lottery, some parts of the UK they are now contacting the under 50's for their first jab. Re the gap between jabs, I'll leave that to the experts, depending who you believe we've either got it spot on, or we haven't!!

[JasonOasis]

Pfizer, Moderna and J&J are all shipping vaccines all over the world, it is how Isreal was able to vaccinate more than half of their population in such a short period of time.  Also on earlier this month both the EU and Italy blocked more than 250,000 vaccines doses of Astra Zeneca which was headed to Australia Italy is one of a few EU countries still using Astra Zeneca.  On the other hand  there are other countries within the EU according to publish reports people do not want the Astra Zeneca shot. It has been reported countries like Germany, France, Spain and the Netherlands all have thousands of doses of Astra Zeneca just sitting in cold storage, while they have very few Pfizer, and Moderna shots available (the shots people want).  Keep in mind Pfizer main production plant is in Belgium not Michigan.  The first Pfizer shots that arrived in the US didn't come from Michigan they can came from Belgium flown in on a commercial aircraft with no passengers onboard. 

 

I'm not sure what Astra Zeneca did or did not do but even South Africa has stop using Astra Zeneca's vaccine and have switched over to J&J.  I'm not sure what is going on with Astra Zeneca even the German Chancellor said she will not take Astra Zeneca.  Except for the UK most Western countries seem to now be turning away from Astra Zeneca which is putting more pressure on Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J.

[Ray]

18 minutes ago, JasonOasis said:

Pfizer, Moderna and J&J are all shipping vaccines all over the world, it is how Isreal was able to vaccinate more than half of their population in such a short period of time.  Also on earlier this month both the EU and Italy blocked more than 250,000 vaccines doses of Astra Zeneca which was headed to Australia Italy is one of a few EU countries still using Astra Zeneca.  On the other hand  there are other countries within the EU according to publish reports people do not want the Astra Zeneca shot. It has been reported countries like Germany, France, Spain and the Netherlands all have thousands of doses of Astra Zeneca just sitting in cold storage, while they have very few Pfizer, and Moderna shots available (the shots people want).  Keep in mind Pfizer main production plant is in Belgium not Michigan.  The first Pfizer shots that arrived in the US didn't come from Michigan they can came from Belgium flown in on a commercial aircraft with no passengers onboard. 

 

I'm not sure what Astra Zeneca did or did not do but even South Africa has stop using Astra Zeneca's vaccine and have switched over to J&J.  I'm not sure what is going on with Astra Zeneca even the German Chancellor said she will not take Astra Zeneca.  Except for the UK most Western countries seem to now be turning away from Astra Zeneca which is putting more pressure on Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J.

Norway has reported cases of blood clotting in a small number of individuals who have received the AZ vaccine, because of this some countries have suspended the use of the vaccine until an investigation can be done to see if the vaccine is the root cause of the clotting or if there are other issues which should be taken into account.

Ireland has also suspended the use of AZ 

[stevendom57]

While the trend in Italy is not good, the number of new cases is NOT growing exponentially. That makes for a very dramatic headline, but it incorrect. 

 

[Ray]

Thing is when you actually think about it logically it makes sense to lock italy down of easter weekend! 

[JeffB]

This is a short read on what is known about blood clots in recipients of the AZ vaccine:

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n699

Two take-aways from the article: (1) There has been a pause (around 2w plus/minus) in use of the vaccine in the countries who have chosen to do so not a termination of it's use. (2) During rigorous AZ trials before approval by European Health Authorities of it's use in the general population, there were no reports of blood clots as a side effect in persons receiving the vaccines. In millions of AZ vaccine doses already administered, there are 5 reported cases of blood clots and 1 death. 

Regarding the perception that the current rise in new cases among European countries is due to people not following the rules, it is impossible to assign a cause. It is possible to speculate. Low on the list of speculated causes is people not following the rules. If anything, people reduce mobility, as measured by anonymous cell-phone tracking, when public health officials report rising case numbers. According to reports, mobility among Europeans has decreased as officials report rising case numbers. This seems to be a typical human response globally.  At the top of speculated reasons is the increase in R(0) or transmission rates of two variants known to be in circulation in Europe - the increases are regional not Europe wide but when reported collectively the increase in absolute numbers as well as the rate of acceleration appears significantly more impactful than it actually is.

South African PH officials are studying the mystifying drop in cases after the surge of new cases and deaths in that country in January. One casual reason has been identified as close quarters housing in poor regions of SA. This contributes to close contacts and increases spread in these poorer regions. Upper income areas are not experiencing the same increases. Again, it's regional and remains as very hard to assign causality.

Finally, yes you can blame government for the slow vaccine roll-out within Europe and especially the EU. Right now, it amounts to not much more than finger pointing but the comparative numbers of inoculated as a percentage of 100K population between nations that have accelerated vaccine purchase and roll-outs and EU nations is, by itself, condemnatory. This isn't about Europe having a higher population than other countries when it is compared from a common baseline of per 100K. 

I don't think the press has all the answers and I certainly don't.  Governments are being less than forth coming. I looked extensively this morning trying to find reliable, other than speculative and politically biased reporting on the several issues causing delays in getting vaccines into arms. Hard to find. But I know this: The number 1 thing that is going to get us back to cruising, folks, the number one thing is vaccinations in arms. We know this. Governments know this. The ones acting aggressively, taking action, on that knowledge are helping to bring the global pandemic to a close. The ones that aren't are prolonging it. Not recognizing that the benefits of getting a SARS-2 vaccine into arms is greater than, I mean hugely greater than, the risks of blood clots from an effective vaccine like the AZ product and stopping it's use, even for a few weeks, is anti-science. Yes, I am pissed at some EU countries, e.g., Denmark and yes, at the EUC and want to yell at it's Commissioners.

[Ray]

Did you say a short read? 

[em.down.the.rabbit.hole]

There's no link between blood clotting deaths and astra zeneca - needs further investigation.  Although there is some suggestion that it may be one batch of the vaccine (but again needs further investigation)

[Ray]

1 hour ago, em.down.the.rabbit.hole said:

There's no link between blood clotting deaths and astra zeneca - needs further investigation.  Although there is some suggestion that it may be one batch of the vaccine (but again needs further investigation)

Think there has only been 1 death and 4 or 5 cases, as you say no link just a country taking measures to ensure its safe and other countries have followed. i read about the 1 batch that may have an issue, this batch can now be purchased online from Lucky lenny's online market catering for all your needs lol 

[cruisellama]

On 3/13/2021 at 3:06 PM, JeffB said:

The problem for the EU right now - THE #1 problem that needs coordinated and cooperative attention among member states is - obtaining and distributing vaccines. What is happening in Italy was entirely avoidable if vaccines had been obtained and distributed within EU nations at the same rate that they were obtained and distributed in the UK, US and similarly in Israel and the UAE. The EUC should rightfully be pilloried and I've heard of moves by frustrated governments, Italy and Greece in particular, to obtain their own vaccine supplies and not wait on the EUC to get its act together.

I don't claim to fully understand what the EUC's role in all of this is. I have read some but you know the phrase, "excuses are like (***) ..... every one has one." Europe in general did great in containing SARS-2 and had a leg up on everyone else until they blew it with vaccines, including the non-sense with questions about the safety of the AZ product. Concerns about that are without basis according to many yet, ????? . Selfishly I want to yell at Ursula von der Leyen and I suspect I'm not alone.

Which is why I flushed my June B2Bs from Venice.  No way Americans will be able to cruise from there by June '21.  Hoping things settle by '22.  Need to get some vaccines.  I believe the French are close to releasing one - fingers crossed.

[mattymay]

Just got the AZ jab, wish me luck!