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How would a vaccine AND mask mandate affect your decision to cruise?


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18 minutes ago, wordell1 said:

The CDC statement was really weak considering the evidence on the vaccine effectiveness, and on Covid transmission outdoors.  Disappointed, but not surprised - they will be the last ones keeping this thing going when everyone else sees that it is over.  Their 15 minutes of fame has run for over a year.

It's a carrot to motivate vaccinations. Unfortunately they have proven themselves so far out of touch it's a carrot being dangled from a stick in a desert absent of any people.  I'm quite confident they all giving high fives around the office about what great things they've done. 

If a carrot falls from a stick in a desert, does it make a sound?

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

This latest CDC guidance that it's safe to walk around outside and take a bike ride without wearing a mask gives me a lot of confidence that I made the right decisions to do both actions many months ago and I'm glad I live in a free country where I was able to make those decisions for myself, by myself.

It may have taken the CDC a little long to reach the same conclusion I did but I'm confident they will eventually come to the same conclusion I have regarding cruise ships and how safe they are given the current situation.  Just wish I lived in a free country where I could make that decision for myself, by myself.  

I couldn’t believe that statement from the CDC was real! Did they actually want fully vaccinated people to still wear masks outdoors prior to this?!

 

If this is their standard I’m starting to question weather cruising will start in the US before November. 

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A female friend of mine brought up something interesting about Royal requiring the vaccine for cruises out of Nassau.  She will not get it because she is concern about the possible affects it might have from the time of thinking of having children to having the child.  They have NO research on pregnant women or how it may affect the baby if pregnant.  Wouldn't this be some type of discrimination not letting her cruise because she doesn't want the vaccine?

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7 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

A female friend of mine brought up something interesting about Royal requiring the vaccine for cruises out of Nassau.  She will not get it because she is concern about the possible affects it might have from the time of thinking of having children to having the child.  They have NO research on pregnant women or how it may affect the baby if pregnant.  Wouldn't this be some type of discrimination not letting her cruise because she doesn't want the vaccine?

Beyond the scope of a cruise forum.  

Interesting legal question though.  Perhaps a law forum that understands Bahamian law can offer opinions.

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7 minutes ago, twangster said:

Beyond the scope of a cruise forum.  

Interesting legal question though.  Perhaps a law forum that understands Bahamian law can offer opinions.

I don't think it's beyond the cruise forum.  You don't think we have mom's on this forum to be concerned about this?

It's a tough question that Royal is going to have to address.  I know we have people that could give top level thoughts (for those of us that aren't savvy lawyers) some general direction.

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19 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Interesting legal question though.  Perhaps a law forum that understands Bahamian law can offer opinions.

Unfortunately, I just read this headline on another forum "Royal Caribbean CEO Bayley Highlights Role of Vaccine in Caribbean Cruising".  So it would not only be Bahamian laws we need to be concerned with!  He mentions North America throughout this article.  

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54 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

I don't think it's beyond the cruise forum.  You don't think we have mom's on this forum to be concerned about this?

It's a tough question that Royal is going to have to address.  I know we have people that could give top level thoughts (for those of us that aren't savvy lawyers) some general direction.

The legality of private business performing an action in another country?

AFAIK a private business can establish any policy it desires as long as it doesn't discriminate based on gender, race or religion.  

Some cruise lines don't allow people over 60 to participate on a scuba diving excursion even though that isn't a policy of any scuba certification organization.  Is that grounds for a lawsuit?  Need to ask a lawyer.  

41 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

Unfortunately, I just read this headline on another forum "Royal Caribbean CEO Bayley Highlights Role of Vaccine in Caribbean Cruising".  So it would not only be Bahamian laws we need to be concerned with!  He mentions North America throughout this article.  

To the best of my knowledge Royal Caribbean has not required a vaccine for any cruise sailing from the US.

Mr. Bayley also said Voom would be free on Enchantment.  #didnthappen 

Mr. Bayley also said the Windjammer would be closed due to the pandemic.  #didnthappen (it's open on Quantum in Singapore)

If I got a nickel every time Mr. Bayley said something that didn't end up happening I'd get a discount on a cup of Starbucks.  

 

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Is it the Bahamian government that is requiring the vaccine or Royal?

"Some Cruise Lines" Who? I would love to see one of our active older population from the US be told from an american company they could't scuba dive because of their age.  Maybe for medical reason.  Think AARP   

And comparing scuba diving to the vaccine is totally unrelated.  Here is a definition of "vaccine" and "scuba diving"

  • a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
  • the sport or activity of swimming underwater using scuba gear.

And while you have made several good points about things that were going to happen that didn't happen, cruise lines have tossed the idea of requiring vaccines on cruises that leave from the US. If our government puts pressure on the cruise lines to make it mandatory is where I see a major problem. 

My wife just made a simple suggestion (I love her), if you choose not be to vaccinated, offer to be tested everyday and wear a mask in doors.  And if you test positive you will quarantine in your stateroom.

 

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8 minutes ago, RBRSKI said:

Is it the Bahamian government that is requiring the vaccine or Royal?

"Some Cruise Lines" Who? I would love to see one of our active older population from the US be told from an american company they could't scuba dive because of their age.  Maybe for medical reason.  Think AARP   

And comparing scuba diving to the vaccine is totally unrelated.  Here is a definition of "vaccine" and "scuba diving"

  • a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
  • the sport or activity of swimming underwater using scuba gear.

And while you have made several good points about things that were going to happen that didn't happen, cruise lines have tossed the idea of requiring vaccines on cruises that leave from the US. If our government puts pressure on the cruise lines to make it mandatory is where I see a major problem. 

My wife just made a simple suggestion (I love her), if you choose not be to vaccinated, offer to be tested everyday and wear a mask in doors.  And if you test positive you will quarantine in your stateroom.

 

I'm not a social justice warrior.  

Good luck with your quest. 

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7 minutes ago, twangster said:

I'm not a social justice warrior.  

Good luck with your quest. 

All I was trying to do was point out another reason why making the vaccine mandatory to cruise is going down a slippery slope.  I understand the whole thing about companies have the right to require it but we also have a right not to get it because of medical side affects the vaccine may have on things in the future.  

Instead of cruise lines saying No Vaccine, No Cruise, they could offer other options!  And maybe they will! 

My crystal ball and magic eight ball told me to go to bed.  lol

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The real question we should be asking is: if there is a vaccination requirement then WHY mask? I am a doctor and this is all troubling how misinformation is out there.  If you have the full vaccination then there is no need to mask.   Just like when you get the measles vaccination, you get it so you cannot contract nor spread the measles to others.  I wish the USA did a better job educating the public about how our immune systems work ?‍♀️

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If you chose not to be vaccinated, then do not go on the cruise, do not fly on a plane, do not go out to restaurants, do not go to the office.  You are not welcome around those of us who are concerned with staying healthy.  

There is a public health reason why schools require students to be vaccinated.  These illnesses spread and can kill people.  COVID-19 is still a global pandemic.  Look at India.  If you don't want to get the vaccine.  Your choice.  Just stay home.

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9 minutes ago, SteelersNationVA said:

If you chose not to be vaccinated, then do not go on the cruise, do not fly on a plane, do not go out to restaurants, do not go to the office.  You are not welcome around those of us who are concerned with staying healthy.  

There is a public health reason why schools require students to be vaccinated.  These illnesses spread and can kill people.  COVID-19 is still a global pandemic.  Look at India.  If you don't want to get the vaccine.  Your choice.  Just stay home.

My take is different, I'm vaccinated so I'm not worried if the person next to me is or isn't. If you aren't and you get sick, I don't want to hear your whining ... you made a choice.

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30 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I wish the USA did a better job educating the public about how our immune systems work

It is not an education issue.  The government for whatever reason is intentionally putting out this what most doctors are saying is "false" information.  Maybe it is do to an over abundance of caution.  I am not going to give my opinion as to why but...

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17 minutes ago, SteelersNationVA said:

If you chose not to be vaccinated, then do not go on the cruise, do not fly on a plane, do not go out to restaurants, do not go to the office

Where is the line drawn.  If it is ok for the government, or a privet company to say you need "the shot" then can they say you have to have been vaccinated for shingles to take a cruise?  If one is ok then the other should be also.   

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17 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

My take is different, I'm vaccinated so I'm not worried if the person next to me is or isn't. If you aren't and you get sick, I don't want to hear your whining ... you made a choice.

Well said!  This is what most people are not putting together.  If you get the vaccine then why would you care if someone else did not.

 

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13 minutes ago, PaulRC said:

Well said!  This is what most people are not putting together.  If you get the vaccine then why would you care if someone else did not.

 

If we are all forced to wear masks because some choose not to vaccinate or a cruise is forced to end early and every one must quarantine in their cabin because one unvaccinated became infected.  

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8 minutes ago, twangster said:

If we are all forced to wear masks because some choose not to vaccinate or a cruise is forced to end early and every one must quarantine in their cabin because one unvaccinated became infected.  

If you are vaccinated and I am not then why would either of us need a mask.   You are safe because you were smart enough to get the shot.  If I get it or not you are still safe.  To me that is common sense.

 

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12 minutes ago, PaulRC said:

If you are vaccinated and I am not then why would either of us need a mask.   You are safe because you were smart enough to get the shot.  If I get it or not you are still safe.  To me that is common sense.

 

I don't need a mask yet I'm required to wear one to enter a store right now.  Not because I am a risk.  Not because I am at risk.  Because unvaccinated folks are a risk.  

Their actions are causing requirements to be imposed on the rest of us just as they will be with cruising.  

There will be no need for me to wear a mask on a ship but if unvaccinated are allowed to sail I'll be required to wear one.  

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8 minutes ago, twangster said:

I don't need a mask yet I'm required to wear one to enter a store right now.  Not because I am a risk.  Not because I am at risk.  Because unvaccinated folks are a risk.  

Their actions are causing requirements to be imposed on the rest of us just as they will be with cruising.  

There will be no need for me to wear a mask on a ship but if unvaccinated are allowed to sail I'll be required to wear one.  

Your required to wear a mask because people are running scared and do not use common sense.  That is the ONLY reason.

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16 hours ago, RBRSKI said:

A female friend of mine brought up something interesting about Royal requiring the vaccine for cruises out of Nassau.  She will not get it because she is concern about the possible affects it might have from the time of thinking of having children to having the child.  They have NO research on pregnant women or how it may affect the baby if pregnant.  Wouldn't this be some type of discrimination not letting her cruise because she doesn't want the vaccine?

There are a lot of actual cases of pregnant women getting Covid without it affecting the baby.  There is no reason to think the vaccine would be dangerous to pregnant women.  If the FDA/CDC had any concerns, they would have been left out of the emergency approval.

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7 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

I think what we are arguing about is the CDC nanny state not allowing the unvaccinated to be responsible for their own actions so they are punishing the vaccinated.

Absolutely, that's been going on for a while.

The difference is now that there are more vaccinated compared to unvaccinated.

As misguided as we may believe the CDC and any retail store that requires a protocol to be, we are left dealing with their misguided choices.  

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45 minutes ago, twangster said:

If we are all forced to wear masks because some choose not to vaccinate or a cruise is forced to end early and every one must quarantine in their cabin because one unvaccinated became infected.  

As usual, you are correct.  I will take it one step further. The only reason I care at all whether others get vaccinated is because I know that the CDC/Politicians/Private businesses will keep all current restrictions in place until the cases and hospitalizations drop to zero.  Vaccines will hasten that process.

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6 minutes ago, wordell1 said:

As usual, you are correct.  I will take it one step further. The only reason I care at all whether others get vaccinated is because I know that the CDC/Politicians/Private businesses will keep all current restrictions in place until the cases and hospitalizations drop to zero.  Vaccines will hasten that process.

Yep.  I said a long time I am getting vaccinated to get the CDC out of my life.  They have been living rent free in my life and the quickest way to get them gone is to vaccinate.  

I'm there.  Fully vaccinated.  Now I'm still stuck dealing with the CDC living rent free in my life and I have to wear a frickin mask to go grocery shopping for no reason.  

 

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I am glad I live in a state that does not nanny me to death.  I do not / have not worn a mask.  I go to restaurants / shopping and they do not require me to wear a mask.  Some ask if I will and when I refuse, nicly of course, they do not push the issue.  I have not, but might get vaccinated the jury s still out on that.  This has not been needed fo any of the other COVID times.  The vaccine is not fully tested for any long term side effects. I am not saying that like some people I know that the govername of Bill Gates has ill intents on this but it is, and no one can argue that the vaccines are not long term tested.

 

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We are fully vaxxed up and are used to wearing a mask while moving about in public spaces already. Since we don't spend too much time catching the rays on crowded poolside chairs, we can deal with wearing a mask here and there if that what it takes to get back to cruising on our late Sep/Oct B2B on Symphony. 

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One unvaccinated person infected on a ship will blow up in the media and end up costing cruise lines hundreds of millions should the CDC step back in and declare them closed again.  Just the bad press from a claim of an infection from a cruise will cost all cruise lines a hit to stock prices and a drop in bookings.  That's a direct hit to their bottom line.

The absolute last thing any cruise line can afford is a case or claim of a case aboard a ship.  

I respect everyone's individual choice for or against getting a vaccine.  I also respect a business having the ability to establish policy to protect itself from a crazed media eager to see it fail.

To that end I hope cruise lines establish a vaccine requirement.  They need to do so to protect themselves. 

I'd really like to see a common sense policy of 100% vaccinated crew and guests with masks only required until you step your first foot onboard the ship.  At that point the mask comes off and the party begins.

I understand this will impact families with members that can't or choose not to vaccinate.  Unfortunately until this virus has moved past society that is an unfortunate outcome.  Once protocols are no longer used anywhere on land they can be removed from ships as well.  At that point all are welcome back on board just as they will be everywhere on land.

Cruising is NOT a constitutional right and businesses must be free to take whatever steps are necessary to operate and protect their brand.  

For those that choose not to vaccinate, including friends I have, that choice comes with consequences like not being to enjoy a cruise.  That is your right to choose, don't take this personal, it's not meant to be an attack but I'm ready to cruise and the safest way to make that happen as quickly as possible is to require a vaccine.  

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1 hour ago, PaulRC said:

I am glad I live in a state that does not nanny me to death.  I do not / have not worn a mask.  I go to restaurants / shopping and they do not require me to wear a mask.  Some ask if I will and when I refuse, nicly of course, they do not push the issue.  I have not, but might get vaccinated the jury s still out on that.  This has not been needed fo any of the other COVID times.  The vaccine is not fully tested for any long term side effects. I am not saying that like some people I know that the govername of Bill Gates has ill intents on this but it is, and no one can argue that the vaccines are not long term tested.

 

You are the problem.  If we do not wear masks and get vaccinated, we will have more spikes and end of like India.  This is real.  588,569 Americans are dead because of your lack or respect for others.  Unless you have a medical degree plus PhD, you do not have the knowledge to question the science.  These people are smart, really smart.  Wear a mask.  Get a vaccine or we will be living like this for years.  

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2 hours ago, twangster said:

Yep.  I said a long time I am getting vaccinated to get the CDC out of my life.  They have been living rent free in my life and the quickest way to get them gone is to vaccinate.  

I'm there.  Fully vaccinated.  Now I'm still stuck dealing with the CDC living rent free in my life and I have to wear a frickin mask to go grocery shopping for no reason.  

 

The vaccine may or may not be 100% effective against all of the variants.  The science is saying, if you get 1 of the variants, you may get sick but not die.  You can also spread it to others even though you are asymptomatic.  We will most likely need a booster shot (like the annual flue vaccine) to ward against the variants.  The more people who refuse to get the vaccine or fail to go back for their 2nd vaccine, the longer this will be with us.  

Your choice, wear a mask at the grocery store and in crowds, or be part of continued spread.  We do not have heard immunity yet because people are refusing to get vaccinated, forgetting to get the 2nd shot, and refusing to wear masks in crowds.  

There were 56,604 cases yesterday and 954 families last a loved one.

Your choice.  

 

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19 hours ago, RBRSKI said:

A female friend of mine brought up something interesting about Royal requiring the vaccine for cruises out of Nassau.  She will not get it because she is concern about the possible affects it might have from the time of thinking of having children to having the child.  They have NO research on pregnant women or how it may affect the baby if pregnant.  Wouldn't this be some type of discrimination not letting her cruise because she doesn't want the vaccine?

She should talk to both her OBGYN and a specialist in infectious disease.  This is a question for people must smarter than any of us.

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

One unvaccinated person infected on a ship will blow up in the media and end up costing cruise lines hundreds of millions should the CDC step back in and declare them closed again.  Just the bad press from a claim of an infection from a cruise will cost all cruise lines a hit to stock prices and a drop in bookings.  That's a direct hit to their bottom line.

The absolute last thing any cruise line can afford is a case or claim of a case aboard a ship.  

I respect everyone's individual choice for or against getting a vaccine.  I also respect a business having the ability to establish policy to protect itself from a crazed media eager to see it fail.

To that end I hope cruise lines establish a vaccine requirement.  They need to do so to protect themselves. 

I'd really like to see a common sense policy of 100% vaccinated crew and guests with masks only required until you step your first foot onboard the ship.  At that point the mask comes off and the party begins.

I understand this will impact families with members that can't or choose not to vaccinate.  Unfortunately until this virus has moved past society that is an unfortunate outcome.  Once protocols are no longer used anywhere on land they can be removed from ships as well.  At that point all are welcome back on board just as they will be everywhere on land.

Cruising is NOT a constitutional right and businesses must be free to take whatever steps are necessary to operate and protect their brand.  

For those that choose not to vaccinate, including friends I have, that choice comes with consequences like not being to enjoy a cruise.  That is your right to choose, don't take this personal, it's not meant to be an attack but I'm ready to cruise and the safest way to make that happen as quickly as possible is to require a vaccine.  

I'm not against anything you have said but how can any cruise line verify it's passengers are vaccinated? The only proof the U.S. uses is a vaccine card which is easy to obtain for a few dollars. I'd be very upset if someone used a fake vaccine card to board a cruise and comes down with covid-19. Some spend thousands of dollars for the entire trip and as far as I know a cruise being cancelled because of covid-19 isn't coved by any third party insurance, if I'm wrong please show me an insurance policy that covers this as I've asked a few insurance places and they have been vague or said not covered.

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17 hours ago, RBRSKI said:

All I was trying to do was point out another reason why making the vaccine mandatory to cruise is going down a slippery slope.  I understand the whole thing about companies have the right to require it but we also have a right not to get it because of medical side affects the vaccine may have on things in the future.  

Instead of cruise lines saying No Vaccine, No Cruise, they could offer other options!  And maybe they will! 

My crystal ball and magic eight ball told me to go to bed.  lol

The cruise line could say no vaccine - you can wave from the dock.  Can't go as other countries are requiring the vaccine.  If you refuse to get the vaccine - stay home, do not go out to the store, do not go to ball games or concerts, do not infect others.

I am tired of those people who think they know more than doctors and scientists.  588,569 Americans are dead because of these idiots.

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11 minutes ago, 12thman said:

I'm not against anything you have said but how can any cruise line verify it's passengers are vaccinated? The only proof the U.S. uses is a vaccine card which is easy to obtain for a few dollars. I'd be very upset if someone used a fake vaccine card to board a cruise and comes down with covid-19. Some spend thousands of dollars for the entire trip and as far as I know a cruise being cancelled because of covid-19 isn't coved by any third party insurance, if I'm wrong please show me an insurance policy that covers this as I've asked a few insurance places and they have been vague or said not covered.

Celebrity has said they are training staff to spot fakes and will pull guest aside for a deeper review should a fake be suspected.

We won't know what that means until we see it in action.

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