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Royal Caribbean to require crew to be vaccinated


Mike.s

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One of my friend's got very sick after the 2nd Moderna vaccine (although she agreed that it was a small price to pay).  Mr. SpeedNoodles had zero side effects ... ZERO ... from either the first or the second dose of the Moderna vaccine.  So there's just no knowing (and either way, I look forward to my turn).

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On 2/11/2021 at 7:17 PM, bretts173 said:

I don't have a problem with people saying it's their right to not have the vaccine but a private company then has the right to allow who they want on their ship. It's your right to wear sneakers out on a Saturday night but if those bouncers say no, there's no way you are getting into the club.

It’s funny how people expect everyone to honor their rights but ignore the other sides.

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On 2/12/2021 at 8:20 AM, HeWhoWaits said:

Not necessarily. While some people report feeling very badly after getting the second dose, others (anecdotal evidence here as I am reciting what older friends have experienced) say they didn't have any ill effects from the second dose.

Yes.. I've also heard these results. 

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The reason for the apparently wide variance in symptoms following inoculation with any of the mRNA vaccines is the multitude of factors that define the human innate (T and CD cells) and adaptive (Ig) response. There really is no practical way of knowing in advance how you will react to a vaccine in preparation for the likelihood that the cruise lines will require these to board in the coming months (JMO, YMMV).

There are blood tests that can be run to assess Ig (allergy testing for example), T and CD cell populations in your blood but these aren't routine, they are expensive and are used more in management of severe allergies and immune compromising diseases like HIV. Researchers doing studies might use them as well.

Many people have been exposed to the coronavirus (common cold). That SARS-2 is a coronavirus, you may have developed CD4 and 8 cells that will recognize inoculation with a SARS-2 vaccine. It is generally understood by immunologist that a strong T-Cell response (the intel gatherers of the innate immune system) will produce a stronger inflammatory (cytokine mediated) response - fever, body aches, etc.).

That's not a slam dunk reason but it is a reasonable explanation. You may have heard of "cytokine storm" - the body's over-reaction to an assault by a pathogen. Early on in the pandemic this was killing people infected with SARS-2. The treatment, simple enough, was prednisone -  an immune suppressant and more complex therapies involving immune-modulators.

Thus, if either you don't have a strong innate immune system to begin with or you've never developed CD4,8 memory cells from a previous exposure to a coronavirus in the past, you are probably more likely to have a stronger inflammatory response as your body's immune system explores and learns when exposed to the SARS-2 vaccine. 

The bottom line on the immune system: There is a lot that isn't known with scientific certainty about the human body's immune system. It's complex with a lot of moving parts working together so that humans can survive the thousands of pathogens that assault us.

NB: This is a post based on the science as I understand and can explain it. I support Matt's efforts to keep discussion to cruising ..... I did mention cruising ?

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4 hours ago, JeffB said:

The reason for the apparently wide variance in symptoms following inoculation with any of the mRNA vaccines is the multitude of factors that define the human innate (T and CD cells) and adaptive (Ig) response. There really is no practical way of knowing in advance how you will react to a vaccine in preparation for the likelihood that the cruise lines will require these to board in the coming months (JMO, YMMV).

There are blood tests that can be run to assess Ig (allergy testing for example), T and CD cell populations in your blood but these aren't routine, they are expensive and are used more in management of severe allergies and immune compromising diseases like HIV. Researchers doing studies might use them as well.

Many people have been exposed to the coronavirus (common cold). That SARS-2 is a coronavirus, you may have developed CD4 and 8 cells that will recognize inoculation with a SARS-2 vaccine. It is generally understood by immunologist that a strong T-Cell response (the intel gatherers of the innate immune system) will produce a stronger inflammatory (cytokine mediated) response - fever, body aches, etc.).

That's not a slam dunk reason but it is a reasonable explanation. You may have heard of "cytokine storm" - the body's over-reaction to an assault by a pathogen. Early on in the pandemic this was killing people infected with SARS-2. The treatment, simple enough, was prednisone -  an immune suppressant and more complex therapies involving immune-modulators.

Thus, if either you don't have a strong innate immune system to begin with or you've never developed CD4,8 memory cells from a previous exposure to a coronavirus in the past, you are probably more likely to have a stronger inflammatory response as your body's immune system explores and learns when exposed to the SARS-2 vaccine. 

The bottom line on the immune system: There is a lot that isn't known with scientific certainty about the human body's immune system. It's complex with a lot of moving parts working together so that humans can survive the thousands of pathogens that assault us.

NB: This is a post based on the science as I understand and can explain it. I support Matt's efforts to keep discussion to cruising ..... I did mention cruising ?

So the dreaded "cytokine storm" is treatable now? I hadn't heard that. Great news!

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35 minutes ago, KWofPerth said:

So the dreaded "cytokine storm" is treatable now? I hadn't heard that. Great news!

Correct ........ effective treatment does require early recognition of signs and symptoms and targeted therapies  based on physical exams and labs.  There's also a butt-load of caveats for specific drug therapies which are beyond the scope of my post. If you're interested and have a sense for the medical science, these are credible links. The NEJM link is pretty current:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7365905/

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra2026131

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On 2/16/2021 at 4:10 PM, JeffB said:

If you're interested and have a sense for the medical science, these are credible links. The NEJM link is pretty current:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7365905/

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra2026131

Thanks for the links, as I am always interested in Science and a self-professed Science geek.

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