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Royal Caribbean to require crew to be vaccinated


Mike.s

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9 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

At the risk of getting too far off topic, let me blow your mind. There is a massive healthcare system in my area. The require a “no smoking”pledge as a condition of employment. Annually everyone must submit to bloodwork and a health assessment. Nicotine positive on your blood work is cause for termination of employment. 
 

Employees must also where a 2 way communication fob on their uniform at all times while on the clock, this fob also records and reports their location in real time to a central hub. 

Point being, employers have a lot of influence over their employees. 


TX is an “at will” employment state as well. 

As condition of employment meaning that you are aware of this when you apply for the job correct????  

What stops Walmart or Costco ect from forcing employees to get this vaccine?  You're telling people you have to get this or not be able to provide for your families.....Thats not right and its not the same as what you posted above.

 

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10 minutes ago, Yo2slick said:

As condition of employment meaning that you are aware of this when you apply for the job correct????  

What stops Walmart or Costco ect from forcing employees to get this vaccine?  You're telling people you have to get this or not be able to provide for your families.....Thats not right and its not the same as what you posted above.

 

Uhh, why wouldn't 2 of the largest employers in the US require that their employees be vaccinated? What do they gain from having a potential outbreak?

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4 hours ago, DD474 said:

I also have one of these cards.  (I'm sure millions of American's also have one of these cards). 

I will also attach this card to my passport. ? 

I received my doses at the local pharmacy and though I got one of those CDC cards, I actually got one of those prescription receipts for both shots and they are very detailed. I am keeping both as confirmation of having received my shots until if/when they are replaced with something different. 

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1 hour ago, Yo2slick said:

As condition of employment meaning that you are aware of this when you apply for the job correct????  

What stops Walmart or Costco ect from forcing employees to get this vaccine?  You're telling people you have to get this or not be able to provide for your families.....Thats not right and its not the same as what you posted above.

 

Yes, if I don’t get the vaccine I can not practice at the hospital where I have for 30 years. 

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11 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Not surprised...although the vaccines doesn't prevent you from getting it or giving it to someone so I am not sure what the point is really.

 

This is not entirely true. The vaccines may in fact greatly reduce the chance of infection and transmission, however this has not yet been studied in depth, therefore the manufacturers are not permitted from making that claim. It is currently being studied in Phase IV trials (i.e. the real world).

It is most likely that vaccinated individuals' viral loads are greatly diminished if they get infected, making it less likely they will pass the virus onto others. The more people in this situation (i.e. vaccinated) the less of the virus gets passed around over time.

What we do know for certain, is that for those infected, having been vaccinated prevents severe Covid and death. I would say that's a pretty good point, regardless of 'getting it or giving it'.

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6 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Not everyone. This would exclude trial participants who received their vaccines in October or earlier. I guess that's another fringe benefit of having initially been in the placebo arm.

Good point.  I wonder if trial participants who did receive the actual vaccine will get documents to that effect.  I suppose some may have had varying dosage levels or different timing compared to the final go forward plan.   Things that make you go... hmmm.  

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I don't have a problem with people saying it's their right to not have the vaccine but a private company then has the right to allow who they want on their ship. It's your right to wear sneakers out on a Saturday night but if those bouncers say no, there's no way you are getting into the club.

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32 minutes ago, twangster said:

Good point.  I wonder if trial participants who did receive the actual vaccine will get documents to that effect.  I suppose some may have had varying dosage levels or different timing compared to the final go forward plan.   Things that make you go... hmmm.  

We get the same cards... The unblinded participants who were in the initial vaccine arm can either pick them up at the 6 month follow up or earlier from the trial sites if needed. I think they'll have 50% of their enrollment at +6 months in April, so that might be about when you see an extension of the 3 month mark to 6 months (helps that we'll have the big general population data at 3 months around then, too).

This is all in reference to Pfizer, btw. Moderna is a week or so behind.

Edit: it just occured to me I have no idea what happens to the phase I or II participants, who like you said, have a good chance to receive a much different product. I'll ask tomorrow (when I get my second shot! *Happy dance*).

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30 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

I don't have a problem with people saying it's their right to not have the vaccine but a private company then has the right to allow who they want on their ship. It's your right to wear sneakers out on a Saturday night but if those bouncers say no, there's no way you are getting into the club.

I like the analogy you used because no one is saying everyone must be vaccinated.  Everyone will still have a choice even those who work for the cruise line if they choose to not be vaccinated they they are choosing to end their employment with the cruise line.  Anyone can choose to not be vaccinated and that is okay it is their choice like you pointed out.  However the cruise lines have every right to then say you can not work for us or cruise with us if you haven't been vaccinated.  I honestly think this is coming and I think this is probably the only way the CDC allows cruising to resume from US ports.  

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5 hours ago, monctonguy said:

It doesn't in Canada....you can still get it and give it even when vacinnated......

Yes, you can still get it. But, even in Canada, the vaccine prevents severe disease.  If it eliminates severe disease then it's a positive thing.  Even in Canada.

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15 hours ago, Yo2slick said:

So you agree with violating peoples rights then?  This is where this entire situation turns political.  Ones rights only matter depending on which side of the agenda you are on.  

As @Cruisin4ABruisin points out, the employer requiring vaccination is not a violation of the individual rights of their employees. Each employee has the RIGHT to choose - Do I want to get the vaccine and keep my job? Or do I want to skip the vaccine and leave my job? Free will.

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15 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

At the risk of getting too far off topic, let me blow your mind. There is a massive healthcare system in my area. The require a “no smoking”pledge as a condition of employment. Annually everyone must submit to bloodwork and a health assessment. Nicotine positive on your blood work is cause for termination of employment. 
 

Kudos to the system for having this policy. Almost nothing irks me more than driving by the hospital and seeing dozens of doctors and nurses smoking.

Does the employment condition also include no use of smokeless tobacco? That could also create a nicotine positive.

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12 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Yes, you can still get it. But, even in Canada, the vaccine prevents severe disease.  If it eliminates severe disease then it's a positive thing.  Even in Canada.

You state..."yes, you can still get it"........well hello....if you can still get it after being vaccinated, that's the whole problem...no??!...what the hell am I missing ppl.

I am not a doctor..but the top doctor in Canada who controls us tells this....(your equivalent of Dr. Facui)

 

I am quoting her word for word,,,,,,I can post links here if noone believes me.....I don't get it....

 

masks, social distancing and you can still give it and get it after being vaccinated...all facts according to Canada.....

 

So I base all my comments and thoughts around Covid and the impact based on what the top Doctor in Canada tells us everyday on the news.....we are not going to be able to travel or leave the country without quarantining even once vaccinated we have been told....at  least for the near future.

 

Why do you think Canada is blocking cruise ships till at least Feb 2022...everyone in Canada is supposed to be vaccinated by Sept of 2021??...hmmmm

 

Everything I have posted above is FACT......anyone can PM me for direct links and quotes but please don't accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about or I am wrong....

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14 hours ago, MaritimeR&R said:

I received my doses at the local pharmacy and though I got one of those CDC cards, I actually got one of those prescription receipts for both shots and they are very detailed. I am keeping both as confirmation of having received my shots until if/when they are replaced with something different. 

I received my dose at my office and my wife received hers at Gillette Stadium, we both got one of those CDC cards. ?

Now I get my 2nd in two weeks from today and my wife's in 3 weeks from today. ?

So that'll be two Saturdays in a row that one of us feels like crap. ?

 

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10 minutes ago, DD474 said:

I received my dose at my office and my wife received hers at Gillette Stadium, we both got one of those CDC cards. ?

Now I get my 2nd in two weeks from today and my wife's in 3 weeks from today. ?

So that'll be two Saturdays in a row that one of us feels like crap. ?

Not necessarily. While some people report feeling very badly after getting the second dose, others (anecdotal evidence here as I am reciting what older friends have experienced) say they didn't have any ill effects from the second dose.

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40 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said:

Not necessarily. While some people report feeling very badly after getting the second dose, others (anecdotal evidence here as I am reciting what older friends have experienced) say they didn't have any ill effects from the second dose.

Feeling crappy is supposedly a sign of a well-tuned immune system, so there's that as a silver lining.

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51 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

You state..."yes, you can still get it"........well hello....if you can still get it after being vaccinated, that's the whole problem...no??!...what the hell am I missing ppl.

Vaccines aren't shields that stop a virus from getting into you, they prime your system to protect itself from it and fight it off.  In general that means that while you can still be infected your immune system can fight it off before you're able to infect others (in many cases) and do it efficiently enough to eliminate hospitalization and deaths from it.

This makes it more difficult for the virus to spread, if your immune system is fighting it off well enough that you never get to the infectious stage than it stops the spread with you. When enough people are doing that we have herd immunity and the spread dies out because it can't find enough hosts. 

It sucks, we've been dealing with this for a year now and we've got several more months (at least) to go, but there's a very real, very visible light on the horizon.

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34 minutes ago, joshgates said:

Vaccines aren't shields that stop a virus from getting into you, they prime your system to protect itself from it and fight it off.  In general that means that while you can still be infected your immune system can fight it off before you're able to infect others (in many cases) and do it efficiently enough to eliminate hospitalization and deaths from it.

This makes it more difficult for the virus to spread, if your immune system is fighting it off well enough that you never get to the infectious stage than it stops the spread with you. When enough people are doing that we have herd immunity and the spread dies out because it can't find enough hosts. 

It sucks, we've been dealing with this for a year now and we've got several more months (at least) to go, but there's a very real, very visible light on the horizon.

In layman's terms (and based on my understanding) ....

Traditional vaccines work by basically making you "slightly" sick so your body develops antibodies and you are now "immune" to the virus since your body already knows how to beat it.

The "new" vaccines don't work that way, instead of giving you the virus and letting you beat the weakened version it attempts to block you from getting sick and in the event you do get sick to lessen your symptoms. So you can still catch it and become contagious even though you have been vaccinated ... this is the bit that Monctonguy is referring to on the canadian side ... if you can still catch it and become contagious, then you can still spread it so the vaccine is good at protecting you from the severe side effects but not for stopping you from being a potential spreader.

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In the US, at present about 1/3 of 1% of the population has been vaccinated in the first month of availability. If the availability and rate of vaccination improves tenfold that still only equals 3% of the population receiving the vaccine per month. Assuming that only 75% of the population WANTS to be vaccinated, that's still two years until all who opt to be (partially) protected can do so. Of course, that also assumes this is found to be a "once in your life and you're protected forever" vaccine.

In order for "most of us" to be vaccinated by the end of the year, the availability and vaccination rate will have to increase greater than twenty fold (assuming that increase could happen immediately).

So-called "herd immunity" resulting from the vaccine(s) is still a long way off.

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11 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

In layman's terms (and based on my understanding) ....

Traditional vaccines work by basically making you "slightly" sick so your body develops antibodies and you are now "immune" to the virus since your body already knows how to beat it.

The "new" vaccines don't work that way, instead of giving you the virus and letting you beat the weakened version it attempts to block you from getting sick and in the event you do get sick to lessen your symptoms. So you can still catch it and become contagious even though you have been vaccinated ... this is the bit that Monctonguy is referring to on the canadian side ... if you can still catch it and become contagious, then you can still spread it so the vaccine is good at protecting you from the severe side effects but not for stopping you from being a potential spreader.

Yes and no.  The "new" vaccines work in a different way but to the same end goal, they prime your immune system to recognize the infection and produce antibodies to fight off an infection. It's not a perfect protection, you can still get sick, you can still be infectious, but the chances of both are greatly reduced.  Canadian, US, Europe, it doesn't matter where you're at, it works the same way, just the messaging is different.

Right now most people are advocating for an abundance of caution and doing whatever can be done to reduce transmission to get things under control while the vaccine is rolled out.  That doesn't mean it's not working, it just means it's a process.

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So then to bring it back to the topic of this post.......who cares if the crew is vaccinated??!...they can still get Covid, the can still give Covid, spread Covid, get sick from Covid,...and we will still need to wear masks, quarantine and social distance.?

 

Boy, makes a great case for this vaccine.......and doesn't give me much hope for anything opening or returning to normal anytime soon...I may have to rethink my predictions now to 2023 based on all these facts i have been presented here..lol

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18 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

So then to bring it back to the topic of this post.......who cares if the crew is vaccinated??!...they can still get Covid, the can still give Covid, spread Covid, get sick from Covid,...and we will still need to wear masks, quarantine and social distance.?

 

Boy, makes a great case for this vaccine.......and doesn't give me much hope for anything opening or returning to normal anytime soon...I may have to rethink my predictions now to 2023 based on all these facts i have been presented here..lol

Royal Caribbean and the crew would greatly care, it'd take a huge mental strain off of them and make planning everything easier.

I would care because it lowers the chance of infection spreading once on board.  Just because it's not 100% doesn't mean it's not a huge improvement.

Social distancing, masks, etc won't be around forever.  For now though, every cruise line has include in their planning perception and PR.  No line wants to have an outbreak on board and have the news be their lack of precautions, or be like SeaDream and have one cruise cut short and the rest of the season canceled.

My guess, and it's just a guess since I have absolutely no inside knowledge, is everyone will be overly cautious at first and then restrictions will slowly fade though 2022.  There's a very strong probability that cruising will not be for everyone when it does restart, but they have to weigh the survival of the business long term and perception is a huge part of that.

Course I could be completely wrong and we have to wear something like this going forward...  That'd push me over to the "yeah, no cruises for me" side.  Probably.

 s-l640.jpg.84b1d51b03bde57f7098526131762ce0.jpg

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Instead of this idea that we must completely eradicate the virus, let's start from this premise: the virus is very nearly already present among any group of 8 or more (even if none have symptoms). Best case is vaccines reduce that by 75% or so, based on the only data we have about that so far. So 1:25 will be infected with the virus post vaccination until... Well, that's the question.

The vaccine offers you personal protection, and that's all we should expect from it. It's possible it will significantly reduce transmission, but probably not by enough that we reach a true herd immunity. In my view, once the proof is in the pudding that we have enough immunity to stop the disruptions to the healthcare system and stem the loss of life, then COVID has become something we must survive and we can switch to developing boosters to save seniors or other susceptible people from the worst effects of waning immunity. The short version is this: once everyone has been given the opportunity to reduce their personal risk through the vaccine, and we have proof it's working (which will naturally be dependent on uptake and infection derived immunity) then we have achieved "enough" to go back to normal. 

Anyway, for the interested: I'm waiting for my second shot to thaw right now, and I asked the trial coordinator what would happen with the Phase 1 and 2 participants... he said after unblinding, those that received anything other than the standard dosing (which I take to mean higher or lower (though he didn't say specifically), on a different schedule, or placebo) would be offered the standard course of shots. The fraction that got what ended up being the approved regimen would get cards to that effect. 

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26 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Instead of this idea that we must completely eradicate the virus, let's start from this premise: the virus is very nearly already present among any group of 8 or more (even if none have symptoms). Best case is vaccines reduce that by 75% or so, based on the only data we have about that so far. So 1:25 will be infected with the virus post vaccination until... Well, that's the question.

The vaccine offers you personal protection, and that's all we should expect from it. It's possible it will significantly reduce transmission, but probably not by enough that we reach a true herd immunity. In my view, once the proof is in the pudding that we have enough immunity to stop the disruptions to the healthcare system and stem the loss of life, then COVID has become something we must survive and we can switch to developing boosters to save seniors or other susceptible people from the worst effects of waning immunity. The short version is this: once everyone has been given the opportunity to reduce their personal risk through the vaccine, and we have proof it's working (which will naturally be dependent on uptake and infection derived immunity) then we have achieved "enough" to go back to normal. 

Anyway, for the interested: I'm waiting for my second shot to thaw right now, and I asked the trial coordinator what would happen with the Phase 1 and 2 participants... he said after unblinding, those that received anything other than the standard dosing (which I take to mean higher or lower (though he didn't say specifically), on a different schedule, or placebo) would be offered the standard course of shots. The fraction that got what ended up being the approved regimen would get cards to that effect. 

Welcome to Florida .. now if the CDC would just butt out so we could restart the only industry still locked down ...

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5 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

Welcome to Florida .. now if the CDC would just butt out so we could restart the only industry still locked down ...

I think welcome to most of the rest of the country, if the trends are to be believed. About Florida specifically, an epidimeologist there predicted COVID will have burned out to a minimus by the end of June. He held back on predicting what the fall and winter would look like.

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If they do decide to require a vaccine passport, they'll need to do something more official than the little cards the CDC prepared in the US.  I received the card when I was vaccinated, however, as I sat in the pharmacists office for 15 mins to ensure I didn't have a reaction, there was a stack of a couple hundred cards just sitting there (probably many more than the actual number of doses they had available).  It doesn't seem like those cards would be too hard to get if someone didn't want to get vaccinated but claim they did for travel purposes.

 

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9 hours ago, monctonguy said:

So then to bring it back to the topic of this post.......who cares if the crew is vaccinated??!...they can still get Covid, the can still give Covid, spread Covid, get sick from Covid,...and we will still need to wear masks, quarantine and social distance.?

 

Boy, makes a great case for this vaccine.......and doesn't give me much hope for anything opening or returning to normal anytime soon...I may have to rethink my predictions now to 2023 based on all these facts i have been presented here..lol

I care if the crew are vaccinated. Sure it is not a guarantee but if the vaccines are 90% effective at preventing covid then isnt that a good thing. You keep saying can still get covid not will thats the main thing. With no vaccine If person A with covid is close to Crew A for any length of time good chance of passing it on. Then Crew A is next to unvaccinated me then I am likely to get it without ever meeting Person A.

With Crew A and myself vaccinated I now have a 1% chance of getting Covid, albeit in a form less likely to make me seriously ill or wise.

Gee wonder which scenario I care about.

 

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Please leave the political discussion out of this.  This thread is about RC requiring crew to get the vaccine.

I don't care how funny you think your joke about any politician is, it has no place here.

Most of you are well aware of this rule, and the fact someone else posts it doesnt give you carte blanche to respond back.  Report it and the mods will deal with it.

This is not the forum for political discussion. Nor is it the place to discuss alternative theories on how vaccines "work". 

If your post doesn't include something about cruising, it doesn't belong here.

I know some of you are reading this and thinking "Can't we have civil discussions?" or "Why are you censoring us?" or "Why does @Lovetocruise2002start her live blogs so darn early?"

The reality is you will convince no one that you're right and they are wrong. All it does it antagonize everyone, make some people truly angry, and lead to insults, name calling, and pages of arguments that are meaningless.

Consider this the final warning on the political discussion.

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On 2/12/2021 at 8:20 AM, HeWhoWaits said:

Not necessarily. While some people report feeling very badly after getting the second dose, others (anecdotal evidence here as I am reciting what older friends have experienced) say they didn't have any ill effects from the second dose.

You are correct. ?

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