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The tide has turned...


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I noticed there’s a lot of ship movement going on over the past few days and not just for RCL, Allure, Harmony and Explorer are headed back to Miami/Coco Cay; Carnival has ships heading back to the US on both east and west coast; Princess has a few ships heading back to California...wonder if this means anything or is it just typical movement due to weather or something?

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1 hour ago, Geoff P said:

I noticed there’s a lot of ship movement going on over the past few days and not just for RCL, Allure, Harmony and Explorer are headed back to Miami/Coco Cay; Carnival has ships heading back to the US on both east and west coast; Princess has a few ships heading back to California...wonder if this means anything or is it just typical movement due to weather or something?

They need to move at some point so I guess they figure they might get them into the right part of the ocean now, satisfy any quarantine requirements, start warming the ships up, training, preparing, getting standard USCG inspections done, etc.

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I'm eligible (hospital worker, > 55) as high priority in my workplace, so could get mine as early as next week, and should get the first injection within 3 weeks, with the 2nd coming 3 weeks after that.  However, the rest of my family are not nearly as high up the list, but since I spend the most time out of the house, in an area where I'm more likely to be exposed, I figure my getting the vaccine increases my family's safety exponentially, so there is that.  Don't think we'll be sailing in March though...?

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On 12/14/2020 at 10:26 AM, PG Cruiser said:

Getting emotional...

The first shots of the vaccine have been administered. THIS IS IT!!!  The tide has turned in the war against this Coronavirus!  Hoping this will fast track our return to cruising.

Praying against issues and complications.

Don't be so sure..new strain/mutation...thousands infected in the UK...knew about this since Sept but we are now only hearing?..hmm....shutting down air tavel in and out of the UK......

 

I have a bad feeling about 2021...

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17 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

Don't be so sure..new strain/mutation...thousands infected in the UK...knew about this since Sept but we are now only hearing?..hmm....shutting down air tavel in and out of the UK......

I have a bad feeling about 2021...

Concur.  I'm also surprised by the growing number of anti-vax sentiments specific to these vaccines.  At least one major cable news outlet is promoting a lot of anti-vax rhetoric.  If enough people aren't willing to vaccinate it will take longer to get society to a place where the CDC will allow cruise ships to sail.  That could eventually lead to a vaccine requirement to board a ship but there are implications to such requirements so that isn't a sure thing early on.  It may take time to reach that point where they'll be forced to go down this road and deal with the ramifications.  Either way it could slow down the travel industry recovery.

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16 minutes ago, twangster said:

I'm also surprised by the growing number of anti-vax sentiments specific to these vaccines.

There will always be anti-vaxxers. All eyes are on the vaccine now so anti-vaxxers are in the spotlight. No one is mentioning the majority of the people who will get the vaccine when it is available to tham.

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7 minutes ago, stevendom57 said:

There will always be anti-vaxxers. All eyes are on the vaccine now so anti-vaxxers are in the spotlight. No one is mentioning the majority of the people who will get the vaccine when it is available to tham.

The traditional anti-vax community remains but there is specific COVID anti-vax sentiment being stoked and influencing people who aren't die hard anti-vaxxers.

A majority of 60% will result in a longer timeline to fully reopen society.  A majority of 85% gets us there faster.   

A difference of 10% or 15% makes a difference to the timeline of how this plays out. A difference of 20% or 25% make a significant difference to the timeline.  

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Count Dan and me in that specific "anti-COVID" anti-vax group.  We are very trusting vaxers in all other cases but there are just too many unanswered questions about the COVID vax at this point.  Perhaps most of these questions are just conspiracy theories...only time will tell.  We will definitely NOT be among those who are jumping to the front of the line to get it.  Will we get it, in the end, just to be able to cruise ?  Unknown, at this point.

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Kinda how I feel...I was all ready to sign up for the vaccine if its going to allow me to travel, but it appears it will not be that simple. You can still get Covid for up to a month after??..plus you can spread it but not have it affect you???...so masks and social distancing and border closures are to be expected for months and months...probably most of 2021 at this point...and thats assuming nothing wacky happens..like issues with the vaccine..or delivery....or new strains/mutations.....

 

No rush here to get it either at this point...as nothing changes for me so its not worth the risk at this point...sad as it looks like 21 will be a wash....not sure the cruise industry can handle  another year of lock downs

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I'm not a scientist or health expert. I barely can put on my shirt on the right way every day.  But I'd advise skeptics to look into the stringent protocols and methodologies any vaccine goes through before it can reach the public.

Then remind yourself that more than 3,000 people die every year from taking Aspirin.

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1 hour ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

We are very trusting vaxers in all other cases but there are just too many unanswered questions about the COVID vax at this point. 

It is perfectly normal to have questions and concerns regarding the vaccine.  This is new to all of us.  I directed my questions to my pharmacist.  He was able to answer most of my concerns.  

Hopefully I will have all my questions answered by the time my name is called to get the vaccine.  

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I will take the vaccine at the earliest time that it  will be available to me. Based on my age and known health, however, it looks like I will be "last in line." DH will probably get the vaccine earlier because of underlying medical conditions and my two daughters and son-in-law are educators, so they will likely be invited to get the shot(s) after the first large group is invited. That leaves my other son-in-law, my 22-year-old graduate student son, and myself, to bring up the rear of the line. 

If cruise lines will require proof of vaccines in order to sail, then I may not be able to go on our May cruises - it would hinge on when I can get the 1 (or 2 ) doses of vaccine.  If I don't have it by then, dh and I will likely just cancel the cruises. ? 

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On 12/14/2020 at 7:16 PM, Allen2 said:

Requirements for cruising in the near future will be very interesting!  Proof of negative Covid test?  Proof of vaccine (2 shots)?  Proof of no contact with Covid-positive individuals?  Proof of insurance?  Proof of evacuation costs?  Waivers?  Others?  With all this in mind, ready to start cruising again!!

If I have a note from my Mother will that count?

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:53 AM, Matt said:

Then remind yourself that more than 3,000 people die every year from taking Aspirin.

 

On 12/21/2020 at 2:06 PM, steverk said:

And 640,000 people die in the US of heart attacks each year.

 

On 12/27/2020 at 10:14 PM, JimnKathy said:

...and 12,000 people fall down stairs and die every year in the U.S. 

 

 

Are we trying to say here that because people die from taking Aspirin, heart attacks and falling down stairs that we will just let people get COVID-19 and die?

I am not a hater of cruising and the cruise industry.  Cruising has been my recreation of choice and I miss it terribly.  In fact, I'm booked for the Odyssey in November 2021.  But until I gain enough confidence that I will not be a carrier of this coronavirus, I will do my part and abide by the guidelines for mitigating its spread, however insufficient and controversial they may be.  They're all we've got at the moment.  I will wear a mask when needed, keep distance from people outside of my social bubble, and put my cruise activities on hold.

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1 hour ago, PG Cruiser said:

 

 

 

Are we trying to say here that because people die from taking Aspirin, heart attacks and falling down stairs that we will just let people get COVID-19 and die?

I am not a hater of cruising and the cruise industry.  Cruising has been my recreation of choice and I miss it terribly.  In fact, I'm booked for the Odyssey in November 2021.  But until I gain enough confidence that I will not be a carrier of this coronavirus, I will do my part and abide by the guidelines for mitigating its spread, however insufficient and controversial they may be.  They're all we've got at the moment.  I will wear a mask when needed, keep distance from people outside of my social bubble, and put my cruise activities on hold.

What I'm saying is that we've over reacted.  People dying is never a laughing matter, but it also needs to be kept in perspective.  We don't go in to a panic over the leading cause of death in the USA (heart disease) even though it is largely preventable.  People just don't worry enough about it enough to take proper care of themselves.

However, people will go in to a total panic, lockdown, financial ruin, depression, etc. out of fear for the pandemic, even though statistically there is much less risk that other problems.

I think the reason is 2 fold:

1. People are very bad at weighing relative risks.  This is especially true when the nightly news is set up to scare everyone to death. They overestimate their chances of succumbing to COVID and underestimate their chances of succumbing to more mundane issues.

2. People have been led to believe that science can fix anything.  Therefore, if we just let science solve this, life will be good.  The truth is we've never been able to beat a virus in such a short time. It is simply astounding how quickly the drug companies have developed the vaccine. However, the advice to lock down, mask up, etc. is beginning to look less like science and more like the dance of an ancient medicine man.

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34 minutes ago, steverk said:

People have been led to believe that science can fix anything.  Therefore, if we just let science solve this, life will be good.  The truth is we've never been able to beat a virus in such a short time. It is simply astounding how quickly the drug companies have developed the vaccine. However, the advice to lock down, mask up, etc. is beginning to look less like science and more like the dance of an ancient medicine man

Well said!!  I would add a number 3 and state that we Americans have let the younger generation been trained to stop thinking for themselves, and common sense is extremely un-common.   I do not know how other countries  are but I really think this is true here in the States.

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3 hours ago, steverk said:

What I'm saying is that we've over reacted.  People dying is never a laughing matter, but it also needs to be kept in perspective.  We don't go in to a panic over the leading cause of death in the USA (heart disease) even though it is largely preventable.  People just don't worry enough about it enough to take proper care of themselves.

However, people will go in to a total panic, lockdown, financial ruin, depression, etc. out of fear for the pandemic, even though statistically there is much less risk that other problems.

I think the reason is 2 fold:

1. People are very bad at weighing relative risks.  This is especially true when the nightly news is set up to scare everyone to death. They overestimate their chances of succumbing to COVID and underestimate their chances of succumbing to more mundane issues.

2. People have been led to believe that science can fix anything.  Therefore, if we just let science solve this, life will be good.  The truth is we've never been able to beat a virus in such a short time. It is simply astounding how quickly the drug companies have developed the vaccine. However, the advice to lock down, mask up, etc. is beginning to look less like science and more like the dance of an ancient medicine man.

But even with these controls in place we are seeing days of over 3000 deaths from covid. Those numbers make it the number 1 killer in the USA.  Not only this heart disease is a build up of many years of things and doesnt kill you in a week. 

 

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4 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

But even with these controls in place we are seeing days of over 3000 deaths from covid. Those numbers make it the number 1 killer in the USA.  Not only this heart disease is a build up of many years of things and doesnt kill you in a week. 

 

600,000+ have died from heart disease in 2020.  Approximately 300,000 have died of COVID.  I suppose it is possible that an additional 300,000 will die in the next 32 hours, but I doubt it.

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21 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

But even with these controls in place we are seeing days of over 3000 deaths from covid. Those numbers make it the number 1 killer in the USA.  Not only this heart disease is a build up of many years of things and doesnt kill you in a week. 

 

BTW, doesn't this support the point that the controls (i.e. masking, social distancing, lockdowns, etc.) are as ineffective as a medicine man doing a dance?

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3 hours ago, steverk said:

600,000+ have died from heart disease in 2020.  Approximately 300,000 have died of COVID.  I suppose it is possible that an additional 300,000 will die in the next 32 hours, but I doubt it.

Sure use 2020 as a timeline for your point but fact is currently COVID is the no 1 killer in America. 3880 in the last 24 hours and a quarter of a million cases. No amount of measures is going to allow cruising or normality in general to return without a succesful vaccine or herd immunity is reached.

 

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