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With the new Vaccine information when it will be possible to cruise normally


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Here are some mRNA vaccine facts but before we list them, some background on DNA and RNA. 

DNA encodes all genetic information, and is the blueprint from which all biological life is created. And that’s only in the short-term. In the long-term, DNA is a storage device, a biological flash drive that allows the blueprint of life to be passed between generations2. RNA functions as the reader that decodes this flash drive. This reading process is multi-step and there are specialized RNAs for each of these steps. 

https://www.technologynetworks.com/genomics/lists/what-are-the-key-differences-between-dna-and-rna-296719

To put this into the context of the question can an mRNA vaccine change your DNA? The answer is no. That is because mRNA has as no roll in altering DNA. It is possible to alter DNA by splicing in different base pairs made up of two nucleosides. RNA or mRNA vaccines can't do that carrying only multiples of single nucleoside - square peg in a round hole. Won't happen. The primary roll of RNA, specifically messenger or mRNA is building proteins essential for biologic functions of the human body.  

mRNA and traditional vaccines:

mRNA vaccines represent a novel vaccine technology that does not rely on any type of traditional deactivated virus to provoke an immune response in humans. This approach to neutralizing a virus and limiting or eliminating viral epidemics/pandemics has never been treid before.

As noted above, the mRNA injected into humans as a vaccine co-opts the regular cellular function of RNA (coding for the production of proteins) and produces the S or spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 that then circulates in the body. The body recognizes this as foreign and its presence provokes an adaptive immune system antibody response and an innate immune system T-Cell response. The human body is now primed for the real thing and when it arrives it is almost immediately neutrlaized.  

The AstraZenaca vaccine is a traditional one that contains a deactivated virus from monkeys (a vector) that has been infected with the common corona or cold virus. When injected into humans, the vector causes the cellular production of the S or spike protein that is common to SARS-CoV-2. The mechanism of action is the same as an mRNA vaccine. The body recognizes this as foreign and its presence provokes an adaptive immune system antibody response and an innate immune system T-Cell response. The human body is now primed for the real thing and when it arrives it is almost immediately neutralized.

More important vaccine facts:  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

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Some good news , 

There might be more Pfizer vaccine portion than we thought.

In each bottle after preparing it there suppose to be 5 portions of the vaccine but it found out that there is between 6 to 8 portions. The FDA approved yesterday the use of the extra portion in each bottle as they consider it to be safe and effective. Pfizer said as long as you inject 0.3 mm of the prepared vaccine its OK . so it might be that if in average there are around 7 portion in each bottle and US bought 200 M portions   extra 40 million people will be able to get the vaccine  

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6 hours ago, Traveler said:

Some good news , 

There might be more Pfizer vaccine portion than we thought.

In each bottle after preparing it there suppose to be 5 portions of the vaccine but it found out that there is between 6 to 8 portions. The FDA approved yesterday the use of the extra portion in each bottle as they consider it to be safe and effective. Pfizer said as long as you inject 0.3 mm of the prepared vaccine its OK . so it might be that if in average there are around 7 portion in each bottle and US bought 200 M portions   extra 40 million people will be able to get the vaccine  

This was discussed on one of the news podcasts I listen to just last night. A doctor invited to the show explained that there is always extra vaccine in every vial to account for variations in the syringes that could be used to draw out the vaccine for injection. Some syringes have a needle that is designed in a way that allows for those extra doses to be drawn. But others have a needle that ends up leaving that extra amount in the vial because it just doesn't have the right... design? shape? angle on the piercing end? That part wasn't clear.

Upshot is that some places that happen to have the right syringe type can reliably get the extra doses, at least as long as they have those syringes in stock. But not every place will have them, so there is some effort being made now to get those better syringes more widely distributed to max out the vaccinations that can be given.

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5 hours ago, JLMoran said:

This was discussed on one of the news podcasts I listen to just last night. A doctor invited to the show explained that there is always extra vaccine in every vial to account for variations in the syringes that could be used to draw out the vaccine for injection. Some syringes have a needle that is designed in a way that allows for those extra doses to be drawn. But others have a needle that ends up leaving that extra amount in the vial because it just doesn't have the right... design? shape? angle on the piercing end? That part wasn't clear.

Upshot is that some places that happen to have the right syringe type can reliably get the extra doses, at least as long as they have those syringes in stock. But not every place will have them, so there is some effort being made now to get those better syringes more widely distributed to max out the vaccinations that can be given.

can i have some pulp fiction GIF

Can I have your leftovers please?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Vaccine news - AstraZeneca wrapping the retest (after the data issue they had few weeks ago) and it should be published soon. it seems that it will have at least 90% success rate preventing getting infected and 100% against severe COVID disease  (or in other words 100% against the need to be hospitalized). The data currently being reviewed by the UK equivalent FSA committee  and may be approved in a week or so.

Vaccine safety - By mistake one of the people that got the Pfizer vaccine had injected with 5* time of the required dose (apparently he  got the dose before it was diluted) , although he was kept for observation  for few hours he got released and feeling very well.

Vaccine testing (will it work or not) - Looks like  that the first place with good indication if the vaccine is a game changer or not  going to be in Israel (due to:  population size, number of available vaccines and speed of given the vaccine)   . Currently , 400000 people got the first shoot and the rate is around 100 K per day which  going to be increased to  around 150 -200 K per day , therefore in about 6 -7 weeks all the population  with higher risk (health care, people, older than 60 and people with chronic conidiations)  should be vaccinated (mostly with Pfizer). It will  be interesting to see the impact on the number of new cases and the number of people who require hospital services. 

 

Here a link to track number of vaccine per 100 people 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=2020-12-10..latest&region=World

Total number of people that got the vaccine : 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-covid-vaccinations?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=2020-12-26..latest&region=World

the charts from our world of data site: 

 

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image.thumb.png.1361dbe93cb1c62b106ae4fe638cc612.png

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AstraZeneca vaccine was approved for use in the UK .

That will expedite the UK vaccination program and might indicate that the FDA will also approve it.

AstraZeneca vaccine  not require  deep freezing for shipment which is a big advantage and will help ship the vaccine to remote places.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-approved-for-use-in-uk-12155958

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The 1st step was approval of the vaccine.  Now we need as a country and world to distribute it and get it into our arms.  The federal government's goal was 20M doses administered by year end.  As of today 2.1M have been administered or 0.6% of the population.  At this rate it will take years.  As a country we are at 10% of the YE goal.  A score of 10% on any exam in school is an F.  A CEO of a public company would be fired for achieving 10% of the key financial goals.

The new administration is taking a different approach. Instead of leaving the logistics to the states, they will use the powers of the federal government to make it happen.  It has to work.  It will be a huge effort that.  It will take everybody's effort.  Why can't cruise lines have their medical staff help administer the vaccines?  It has to work.

But the vaccine also has to be rolled out in Canada, the UK, Germany, China, India, Egypt and Morocco for it to be safe to travel globally.  On a cruise ship, a plane, train or theatre or neighborhood restaurant there are people from all over the world.  If they were not vaccinated, you are not safe.  

It will take leadership.  The US  has traditionally provided that leadership. 

The buck stops on the President's desk.  

My guess is that it is way to early to say when it will be safe to travel.  In the meantime, wear a mask, social distance, stay home, be smart and watch videos of past vacations.

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I'm going to preface this by saying this is a very naive comment and I definitely know the answer is $$$$. But I can't help by think that considering this is a world wide pandemic and people are dying everywhere...shouldn't Pfizer etc give labs around the world the formula and pump it out like crazy. If it was a cure for something small I can understand wanting to make it a monopoly. But considering it could get the world back on track to normalcy im sad it doesn't work like that...

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11 minutes ago, Marlena said:

I'm going to preface this by saying this is a very naive comment and I definitely know the answer is $$$$. But I can't help by think that considering this is a world wide pandemic and people are dying everywhere...shouldn't Pfizer etc give labs around the world the formula and pump it out like crazy. If it was a cure for something small I can understand wanting to make it a monopoly. But considering it could get the world back on track to normalcy im sad it doesn't work like that...

To date they are the only company selling vaccine at a substantial profit at about $30 a shot compared to the Oxford Vaccine which is about $3 a shot, however 70+ third world countries will get the Oxford Vaccine at cost price, less than the $3

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15 hours ago, Marlena said:

I'm going to preface this by saying this is a very naive comment and I definitely know the answer is $$$$. But I can't help by think that considering this is a world wide pandemic and people are dying everywhere...shouldn't Pfizer etc give labs around the world the formula and pump it out like crazy. If it was a cure for something small I can understand wanting to make it a monopoly. But considering it could get the world back on track to normalcy im sad it doesn't work like that...

I am certain $$$$ come into play somehow, but aseptically filling vials is a very difficult thing to do at scale.  The companies who do it have extremely expensive equipment plus a dedicated highly trained and skillful workforce (taking years, sometime decades, to develop).  Wide "distribution" of the formula will not help produce more vials of vaccine available quickly.

The good news is the number of available dosages is not the bottleneck.  How "fast can we jab" is dictated by the logistics of getting the vaccines to where they are required (we seem to have this figured out), and then having enough trained people to administer them (this is definitely the bottleneck currently).

More good news ... soon (within a month or two) we will have shifted those courageous health care professionals from saving us to injecting us ( I guess that saves us too ?).  I am certain they will be extremely happy to make that change in their daily routine.

To all the health care professionals out there, I do not say it nearly enough, you are very much appreciated.  It is impossible for anyone to not notice your dedication and bravery.  We are forever in your debt.

Curt from Canada 

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On 12/31/2020 at 8:00 AM, Curt From Canada said:

I am certain $$$$ come into play somehow, but aseptically filling vials is a very difficult thing to do at scale.  The companies who do it have extremely expensive equipment plus a dedicated highly trained and skillful workforce (taking years, sometime decades, to develop).  Wide "distribution" of the formula will not help produce more vials of vaccine available quickly.

The good news is the number of available dosages is not the bottleneck.  How "fast can we jab" is dictated by the logistics of getting the vaccines to where they are required (we seem to have this figured out), and then having enough trained people to administer them (this is definitely the bottleneck currently).

More good news ... soon (within a month or two) we will have shifted those courageous health care professionals from saving us to injecting us ( I guess that saves us too ?).  I am certain they will be extremely happy to make that change in their daily routine.

To all the health care professionals out there, I do not say it nearly enough, you are very much appreciated.  It is impossible for anyone to not notice your dedication and bravery.  We are forever in your debt.

Curt from Canada 

As a Respiratory Therapist for the past 16+ years in Montreal I appreciate every nice word you said. 2020 has been the longest 5 years of my life! Lol

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12 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

At this rate of vaccinations, all travel companies will be bankrupt and cease to exist  current vaccination rate here in Canada is 10 years to have the country vaccinated(based on the lack of progress in the first 3 weeks we have had the vaccine)....what a joke..lol

Going to be interesting to see how it shakes out in the long run ... down here in Sunny Florida the only thing that isnt already open for business is the cruise terminal ...

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13 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

Going to be interesting to see how it shakes out in the long run ... down here in Sunny Florida the only thing that isnt already open for business is the cruise terminal ...

The way it should be!....here in Canada, the provinces with the tightest lockdowns are in the worse shape and continue to be....lockdowns don't work..they just hurt people financially, mentally and emotionally...

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I would move to Florida in a flash if I wasn't Canadian...cant get in! :(.....now if I went to Mexico and could climb a wall I would be all set.....sad you have to break the law to get in really.....

 

If anyone knows how I can do it legally...let me know!..lol

 

To keep this on the cruise topic....I would be diamond plus by now and well on my way to pinnacle if I could live in Florida!

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12 minutes ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

I told Hubby if he doesn't want to move there, then at least we can be snowbirds.

Will most likely do the snowbird thing.  Our pension travel medical insurance covers us for 90 days each trip.  Head south after Canadian Thanksgiving.  Come back for Christmas and then head out again after New Years.  

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37 minutes ago, Rose City Cruiser said:

Will most likely do the snowbird thing.  Our pension travel medical insurance covers us for 90 days each trip.  Head south after Canadian Thanksgiving.  Come back for Christmas and then head out again after New Years.  

I like that plan!! Then cruise during early December and January when it’s cheap! ?

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The next two weeks going to be very important to check if the vaccine is a game changer or not.

In Israel , more than 20% of the population got the first dose (75% of people over 60/people with health issues and most of the  first responders/medical teams)  . This week they  started to give the second dose

The high percentage was possible due to the relative small population (around 8.5 M). the size of the country (around the size of NJ) and the public medical insurance  system (everyone is a member of one of four public health organization without any connection to his/her  employment status and they have the facilities to run such operation , vaccinating 150- 200 K people per day ). The other important factor was the medical history data which the public health organizations has on each person (digital information for the last 25 years), this convinced Pfizer to send enough doses as Israel promised to share with them and other health organizations  the statistical health information . In other words , Israel becomes the "phase 4" trial of the vaccine ...

That's why, if the vaccine is working well ,  at least with the older population we should see improvement  in the next two weeks , such as reduction of  people that need to be hospitalized and even number of infected people. Let hope for good news.

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I just now scheduled my Mother's first shot for January 18th.  She will be 91 in March.  I am surprised that they are scheduling this soon here so I find that encouraging.  They are only doing 70+ now but hopefully soon, I will be able to get mine in the next round for 60+.  The sooner this get going, then the sooner we will be cruising again.  I really need my October 2021 cruise (L&S from 2020).  As hubby put it the other day, "I am so ready to go somewhere!!"

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And the details starts to come, 

200 K people were tracked after the first dose against same number of people  which did not got the the vaccine yet. Until day 12 the number of people that were infected are more and less the same in the two groups , after day 13 there is a drastic drop of people that were infected from the first group (more than 40% and some number even shows 60%), this is a good indication that the vaccine will not just reduce the illness but also may reduce the risk for being infected.

Its just first number , we will need to wait to get more information . 

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2nd dose of the Pfizer vaccine received on 1/19!

I have injection site pain (I didn't have any on the first one), but that's it so far. Too bad they canceled my April cruise ? I was hopeful this little card would be my golden ticket to normalcy ... at least if only for a week or two... 

willy wonka and the chocolate factory GIF

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  • 2 weeks later...

Vaccine news :

J&J vaccine found to be 66% effective in the global trail with 85% preventing severe disease 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/29/health/johnson-coronavirus-vaccine-results/index.html

Although not as good as Moderna and Pfizer but still good news considering it requires only single shot and easy to transfer.

Regarding the biggest Pfizer real time test (AKA Israel vaccine program) 3 M got the first shot and 1 M got the second one (30% of all population and 83% of people above 60) .

First results of people which are one week after the second shot shows that out of 250K people only 0.04% got infected and more important no one needed to be hospitalize.

Out of 750 K people that got the second shot but are not yet passed the 7 days point  315 were infected and only 16 needed to be hospitalized. (much better than the general population) 
That still should be verified for longer duration  to see the real impact of the vaccine but its going the right direction

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@Traveler, very good news indeed. Unfortunately, the new variants from the UK, South Africa, and Brazil are reported to have multiple mutations in their spike proteins that appear to make them all at least somewhat resistant to antibodies produced against the "original" strain. There are newly reported results from a Novavax vaccine trials in the UK and South Africa showing the same kind of ~90% effectiveness against "original" and UK strains (UK trial), but only 49% against the new variant (South Africa trial, which is reported to be smaller and less-definitive). Tried to find a direct link, but these results are as reported in the link I shared on the separate thread about the new travel bans for UK, Brazil, and South Africa:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/28/south-africa-variant-south-carolina/

Lots of talk about possible booster shots, and new vaccines made to fight these variants that share the same mutation in spike protein. While getting everyone vaccinated against the original strain is still of paramount importance to eliminate spread as much as possible, it looks like we're going to still have a slog ahead of us while we deal with the emergence of new variants.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352

 

The BBC report that the Novavax vaccine was 60% effective against the South African variant, not brilliant but better than the seasonal flu jabs we get each year.

"The Novavax jab, which is given in two doses, was shown to be 89.3% effective at preventing Covid-19 in participants in its Phase 3 clinical trial in the UK, and around 86% effective at protecting against the new UK variant.

The Phase 3 trials - the final stage before a vaccine is looked at by a regulator - enrolled more than 15,000 people aged between 18-84, of whom 27% were older than 65, US firm Novavax said.

In the South African part of the trial, where most of the cases were the South African variant of the virus, the vaccine was 60% effective among those without HIV."

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38 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

@Traveler, very good news indeed. Unfortunately, the new variants from the UK, South Africa, and Brazil are reported to have multiple mutations in their spike proteins that appear to make them all at least somewhat resistant to antibodies produced against the "original" strain. There are newly reported results from a Novavax vaccine trials in the UK and South Africa showing the same kind of ~90% effectiveness against "original" and UK strains (UK trial), but only 49% against the new variant (South Africa trial, which is reported to be smaller and less-definitive). Tried to find a direct link, but these results are as reported in the link I shared on the separate thread about the new travel bans for UK, Brazil, and South Africa:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/28/south-africa-variant-south-carolina/

Lots of talk about possible booster shots, and new vaccines made to fight these variants that share the same mutation in spike protein. While getting everyone vaccinated against the original strain is still of paramount importance to eliminate spread as much as possible, it looks like we're going to still have a slog ahead of us while we deal with the emergence of new variants.

Agree , the mutations are the extra parameters that need to be take into account.

In Israel the UK is now very common , the South African one although less common also exist, that is the reason that the new cases is not dropping as fast as expect, few more weeks and we will know. 

More important , if the vaccine will still be less effective to prevent getting the C19  but will still prevent  severe disease its also something , after all , no one stops  the cruise industry when people get a flu ...

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I think people and this includes me kinda miss the point with these vaccines. Its not just about preventing Covid-19 altogether, its about not getting severe sickness, hospitalization and death most importantly.  If it can turn it basically into a common cold you get over in a few days that is a huge win obviously. I have shortsighted on this fact myself. The J&J vaccine is very, very intriguing. One shot and done, easily transported and stored. J&J can manufacture at an incredible pace and capacity. 

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