MuttMutt Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 It seems similar to what the Bahama's was trying to do. They want to say they don't want the business because there are too many people. Yet the ships that would fit don't want to go there anyway. Eventually the local's will see places that only thrived because of the ships coming through close up and when it's their favorite restaurant they always went to on a birthday or anniversary that is the one that closes they will complain and moan. They will also likely have people who were once able to make a living move away because the jobs they made great money at don't do a quarter of the business they used to. It will heavily effect their economy to say the least. In 5 years or less they will be repealing it or thinking about it. For me personally I don't see it as a loss. I would much rather just head out to Florida and spend a couple weeks visiting places than to stop in on a cruise. To me it's kinda like going to another town. I can do it any time I want and don't have to make plans ahead of time by a few months. If I can technically drive there I would also much rather do that. I often see itinerary that is stopping in the US and for me it's a waste of a day. I would rather stay on the water during that time and have a closer stop at a different port. Plus if I am in Florida I will probably be planning to spend a few days being underwater for a few hours seeing wrecks or reefs. For instance I can see the stop in Key West being turned into a second stop in the Bahama's when the ships come out of New Orleans which will be much more attractive to a lot of people from the US anyway. And the stuff going out of MD and NJ are stopping in Orlando and Charleston most of the time. The only way I see these being attractive for a lot of people is if they are traveling from outside the US and taking a cruise, otherwise if it's a 7 or 8 hour drive (not to mention the train ride that is also possible in that area) who really wants to go down and spend 8 hours off the cruise ship in Charleston or Port Canaveral? The worst one that I find is this one https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises/itinerary/8-night-southeast-coast-perfect-day-from-baltimore-on-grandeur/GR08BWI-3213887477?sail-date=2021-03-26¤cy=USD&country=USA where you end up spending almost 20 hours futzing around in US ports... Kick them both to the curb and along with CoCo Cay you could easily turn that into a stop at Labadee and Falmouth IMHO. Which would be much more attractive to me for an 8 day trip, there would be one less stop but an extra day on the water. The bad thing for Key West is once the cruise lines make changes they will probably find they make a little more cash dumping them and when the decision is changed back the lines won't really be interested in making the stop anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 The drive down is usually beautiful and fun, best done at a lesurely pace. KW is a lot of fun, and is definitely different when ships are not in port. I was scheduled to drive down tomorrow and stay a few days but TS Eta had other ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuttMutt Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 Exactly, make the trip at your own pace. Can head there when the weather is good and take some time. Cruise's are nice for some places that are a little smaller and for a quick chance to test things out then go for a longer trip later on. My first cruise I actually dropped off some bags in Jamaica so I didn't have to pay to transport them on a plane. I was in Jamaica for two weeks a couple months later and did my advanced open water certifications while I spent some time just knocking around MoBay. There were a few days where I spent most of the day just chilling on a hammock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 18 hours ago, PRC said: The drive down is usually beautiful and fun, best done at a lesurely pace. I hear the drive down is even better in a Hummer PRC and rjweber3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 On Friday Florida senate bill SB-426 made it onto the committee agenda to be discussed on 3/10/21. SB-426 would grant the state preemption with respect to Florida seaports effectively giving the state the authority to overturn the cruise ship ban in Key West. While not the last step to becoming a law it is progressing. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/426 TXcruzer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, twangster said: On Friday Florida senate bill SB-426 made it onto the committee agenda to be discussed on 3/10/21. SB-426 would grant the state preemption with respect to Florida seaports effectively giving the state the authority to overturn the cruise ship ban in Key West. While not the last step to becoming a law it is progressing. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/426 The text as written does make a good point. Having widely varying local rules on maritime commerce could get pretty messy. twangster and cruisellama 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditchdoc Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 Key West, Venice ..... maybe others. Cruise ships carrying 6,000 passengers has it down side. You can only put so many people in VW, or a phone booth (both extinct now and perhaps a warning) and towns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 40 minutes ago, Ditchdoc said: Key West, Venice ..... maybe others. Cruise ships carrying 6,000 passengers has it down side. You can only put so many people in VW, or a phone booth (both extinct now and perhaps a warning) and towns. Royal's largest ship that can fit into KW carry around 2,500 passenger at max capacity, 2,100 typically. Once Royal retires Vision and Radiance class they'll never again be able to visit KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 I am looking at a cruise on Jewel of the Seas for April 2022...but it lists stops in key West AND Cayman Islands...both of which are iffy at this point. Surprised Royal would still be offering these knowing its highly unlikely they could port at either??! Am I missing something or has something changed recently? Its a great deal and a ship i have never been on with a couple great stops..not sure if its worth the risk to book..I certainly wouldn't do that or pay that if it turns into 2 seas days instead??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 58 minutes ago, monctonguy said: Am I missing something or has something changed recently? Its a great deal and a ship i have never been on with a couple great stops..not sure if its worth the risk to book..I certainly wouldn't do that or pay that if it turns into 2 seas days instead??! I'm surprised too, but I'm guessing it's based on the idea by that point, things could change. But if you don't want potentially 2 more sea days, then you might want to skip this. Or at least cancel before final payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 As SB-426 advances in committee for discussion tomorrow it has received some changes and new verbiage specifically denying a local ballot initiative or referendum from restricting maritime commerce. Might as well call this the "No Key West You Can Not Ban Cruise Ships Act". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 Cruise industry lackeys in Legislature dismiss the people’s will | Miami Herald Interesting article by the Miami Herald, detailing the real concerns that Key West citizen have...that really have not been discussed, in many places. Very similar concern, to those in Hawaii, when the Hawaiian Express Ferry was trying to start up, with inter-island services. I recall the uproar of that...and see similar modes in plays here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Zambia-Zaire said: Cruise industry lackeys in Legislature dismiss the people’s will | Miami Herald Good lord that title. Glad to see yellow journalism is still alive and well. teddy, dr martini, twangster and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, Matt said: Good lord that title. Glad to see yellow journalism is still alive and well. That's all you got out of that...not the crust or thesis, of the issue that citizens have, that was apparently legally voted on. Well, not sure how or why that "linked title" appears...it was not part of the original title of the article or the link, when I linked it here. Still, interesting and informative article imo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 The link takes me to an opinion piece written by someone who obviously isn't a fan of cruise ships. That's not a news story, it's a personal point of view. Any facts in there get clouded by the author's bias. RWDW1204, Baked Alaska, twangster and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On one hand he cites public safety and only 9 ICU beds for COVID patients as the reason why ships should be banned forever but later he goes on to explain how great it is and how vibrant tourism is on the island which is currently packed with tourist not wearing masks. Clearly seems to be of the opinion that the virus is only spread on cruise ships. He must work for the CDC. dr martini, JasonOasis and RWDW1204 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, twangster said: On one hand he cites public safety and only 9 ICU beds for COVID patients as the reason why ships should be banned forever but later he goes on to explain how great it is and how vibrant tourism is on the island which is currently packed with tourist not wearing masks. I'd point out the Key West amendments that voters banned on had nothing to do with covid. It was all about environmental impact. I know it's neither here nor there. 1 hour ago, Zambia-Zaire said: Well, not sure how or why that "linked title" appears...it was not part of the original title of the article or the link, when I linked it here. You did in fact post the title Also, Herald needs to add OP-ED to its titles, as NYT, WP and plenty of other newspapers do. Baked Alaska, twangster and RWDW1204 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Matt said: I'd point out the Key West amendments that voters banned on had nothing to do with covid. It was all about environmental impact. I know it's neither here nor there. I know right! I was like... why is he inserting COVID into this? SMH. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 Matt, It came up on it's own like that...I did not post the link like that. I just linked it & this what automatically appeared, "lackeys.....". Did not notice til your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, Matt said: I'd point out the Key West amendments that voters banned on had nothing to do with covid. It was all about environmental impact. The article is about the environmental impact....that the whole & complete thesis presented. The article only casually briefly mentioned Covid. Not sure will that the focus of rebuttal, when it's not the focus of the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantix2000 Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said: Matt, It came up on it's own like that...I did not post the link like that. I just linked it & this what automatically appeared, "lackeys.....". Did not notice til your comment. See screenshot below - The text comes from the tab at the top, not the text of the article. Whether it was written by the author or the webmaster of the Miami Herald is impossible to tell. But when you post a link, that's what gets used. Zambia-Zaire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 Why would I want to go to Key West on a ship if the residents don't want me there ? teddy, emmef, SpeedNoodles and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff P Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 I liked Key West as a cruise stop, it’s like the perfect amount of time there...and it’s way better than say, Nassau. I’ve been to Key West a few times, both on a cruise and for a week long vacation once, the week there was too much, could’ve done more like a long weekend, but stopping for a day on a cruise is nice. I don’t think the people that own the businesses by where the cruise ships dock don’t want us there...unfortunately they were apparently out-voted. Baked Alaska and WAAAYTOOO 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyfsu21 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Geoff P said: I liked Key West as a cruise stop, it’s like the perfect amount of time there...and it’s way better than say, Nassau. I’ve been to Key West a few times, both on a cruise and for a week long vacation once, the week there was too much, could’ve done more like a long weekend, but stopping for a day on a cruise is nice. I don’t think the people that own the businesses by where the cruise ships dock don’t want us there...unfortunately they were apparently out-voted. The wealthier “conchs” don’t want tourists on “their” island and unfortunately are very influential in our local island politics. The venders who own shops that cater to the cruisers as well as the restaurants along the Duval corridor have a different opinion. coneyraven, monctonguy and Baked Alaska 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 SB-426 committee vote this morning YEAS 6 NAYS 2 emmef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, twangster said: SB-426 committee vote this morning YEAS 6 NAYS 2 Yay to ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said: Yay to ? Yay it moves forward, nay would have killed it in committee and it would never see the floor for a vote in the Senate. WAAAYTOOO and monctonguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonOasis Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 3/9/2021 at 11:49 AM, Zambia-Zaire said: The article is about the environmental impact....that the whole & complete thesis presented. The article only casually briefly mentioned Covid. Not sure will that the focus of rebuttal, when it's not the focus of the article. This isn't about the environmental impact, Key West is more than happy to accept smaller cruise ships or should I say cruise ships that cater to a high end "luxury" clientele. Now day it is so easy to hide behind the environmental claim but when you dig deeper you realize what what some people Key West want and don't want. The sad part of all this is this decision will have unintended consequences on small business that depended on cruise lines like Royal Caribbean or Disney to stay afloat. What will happen is those business will eventually be push out in favor of more high end luxury and ultra luxury shops that will cater to the smaller cruise ships that will still be allowed into Key West. At some point this way of thinking will spill over and effect the entire island if everyday people don't stand up to stop it. If allowed to continue Key West could easily become an exclusive playground for the ultra rich all under the guise of we are trying to limit the "environmental impact". If you want to truly limit the environmental impact they would ban ALL cruise ships not just cruise ship with more than 1300 passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 I think too in a state where so much comes from tourism it's a slippery slope when individual communities establish rules that threatened and reduce one of the biggest economies of the state - tourism. If any local city can create rules that restrict businesses using a ballot measure then a wealthy business owner can use the process to benefit their business interests. Next boutique hotel owners start a movement to eliminate all hotels that have more than 10 rooms in KW. Put enough money into this campaign and you too can use ballot measures to ban select businesses so it benefits your business interests. Get rid of those big hotels! They just clog the streets with gas guzzling cars that ruin the air. What if rich people in Naples wanted to isolate their community from tourists? Create a toll road that charges $45 to non residents per day to access their community. Ballot measure! Then some wealthy people in another area make it difficult for tourists to use "their" beach. Ballot measure! Then another community decides cruise ships in "their" port can be a cash cow so they add a $100 fee per guest to profit from them. Why should these big cruise companies make all the money? Ballot measure! Once you let local ballot measures target and ban select businesses it can quickly spiral out of control. No fishing boats under 28' (because a wealthy business owner has a fleet of 30' boats). JasonOasis and Baked Alaska 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmondFarmer Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 32 minutes ago, twangster said: Once you let local ballot measures target and ban select businesses it can quickly spiral out of control. No fishing boats under 28' (because a wealthy business owner has a fleet of 30' boats). When I was on Allure in Roatan, crew were fishing off the ship. So Allure is basically a 1188’ fishing boat. WAAAYTOOO, twangster and Baked Alaska 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep1 Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 9:20 PM, AlmondFarmer said: When I was on Allure in Roatan, crew were fishing off the ship. So Allure is basically a 1188’ fishing boat. They have some nerve... They always yell at me for fishing off my balcony... Baked Alaska and RWDW1204 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 Having cleared committee, SB-426 has been placed on the special order calendar. Latest update: Placed on Special Order Calendar, 04/21/21 https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/426/ Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 I'm sympathetic to these ports limiting a number of ships at any given time, but not for out right bans. Where there's "wake" erosion risk, limiting ship displacement might be valid criteria used to mitigate risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, twangster said: Having cleared committee, SB-426 has been placed on the special order calendar. Latest update: Placed on Special Order Calendar, 04/21/21 https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/426/ Looks like the only changes to the bill are some clarifications and fringe case exceptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 I've lived in a tourist beach town. The traffic and crowds are no fun. It changes the way you plan your day, avoiding traffic jams that would make a quick trip to see the dentist or shop at a store into a 2 hour affair to get home if you have to use a highway that will be jammed with tourists on a Friday or Sunday afternoon. If there is an accident forget it, don't think about going anywhere, just hunker down and wait until the damn tourists to be gone. I had a job that required I travel around the state. I'd plan my business meetings so I wouldn't be on certain roads coming home on certain days. Tourists are a pain in the *&#. Nothing would be nicer than to ban tourists from beaches so the local can enjoy them exclusively. Easy parking, no crowds. Perfect. Think of the savings to the environment if thousands of cars aren't blowing exhaust all over the place. What if Florida just banned all tourists? Then all the locals could enjoy beaches and amusement parks without the dang crowds. Perhaps Hawaii should ban tourists as well. Plus other touristy areas around the country. Ban all tourists or find ways to severely limit them so locals can enjoy their communities absent of crowds. Sorry to all the businesses and employees that will impacted, but locals should be able to exclusively enjoy their communities. This is the start of that effort. emmef and cruisellama 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, twangster said: I've lived in a tourist beach town. The traffic and crowds are no fun. It changes the way you plan your day, avoiding traffic jams that would make a quick trip to see the dentist or shop at a store into a 2 hour affair to get home if you have to use a highway that will be jammed with tourists on a Friday or Sunday afternoon. If there is an accident forget it, don't think about going anywhere, just hunker down and wait until the damn tourists to be gone. I had a job that required I travel around the state. I'd plan my business meetings so I wouldn't be on certain roads coming home on certain days. Tourists are a pain in the *&#. Nothing would be nicer than to ban tourists from beaches so the local can enjoy them exclusively. Easy parking, no crowds. Perfect. Think of the savings to the environment if thousands of cars aren't blowing exhaust all over the place. What if Florida just banned all tourists? Then all the locals could enjoy beaches and amusement parks without the dang crowds. Perhaps Hawaii should ban tourists as well. Plus other touristy areas around the country. Ban all tourists or find ways to severely limit them so locals can enjoy their communities absent of crowds. Sorry to all the businesses and employees that will impacted, but locals should be able to exclusively enjoy their communities. This is the start of that effort. As we both know, works great until you realize there aren't enough local tourists to pay the bills MamaShark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 19, 2021 Report Share Posted April 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, jticarruthers said: As we both know, works great until you realize there aren't enough local tourists to pay the bills Exactly. I was being facetious but I suspect you knew that jticarruthers, cruisellama and teddy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 Latest update on SB-426 4/22/2021 Senate • Read 3rd time • CS passed; YEAS 25 NAYS 14 cruisellama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 While SB-426 was working its way through the Florida Senate, the Florida House of Representatives has been working on their version of the identical bill. HB-267 https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/267/?Tab=BillHistory It appears HB-267 has cleared three committees, had the first reading in the House and is on the calendar for the 2nd reading. 4/22/2021 House • Bill referred to House Calendar • Added to Second Reading Calendar cruisellama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Next action for HB-267 is on Monday 4/26/2021. 4/23/2021 House • Bill referred to House Calendar • Bill added to Special Order Calendar (4/26/2021) cruisellama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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