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Healthy Sail Panel Thoughts?


AndrewPunch

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https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/09/21/royal-caribbean-new-cruise-ship-health-protocols-include-wearing-masks-social-distancing

 

What are peoples thoughts on the Healthy Sail Panel recommendations?  I recall the Royal CEO talk about it needs to be a the same or better experience pre-covid for them to sail again.  We did a lift and shift till 2022 for our next cruise but have some concerns about the recommendations.  The biggest one will be the denial of boarding if there is an issue/pre cruise testing.  We would be traveling from the midwest to Florida and who knows what will happen with the flying in a day early.  How is Royal going to handle the your kid has a fever, thanks for coming but the door is that way? or what?

The other issue is the open an honest culture mindset with crew about feeling sick.  I know way too many people that need that paycheck where they will work through stuff but with COVID its going to be difficult to encourage that behavior.  My 2 cents Royal needs to make sure that its employees are still made whole if they get sick so there isn't a penalty for reporting. 

 

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My thoughts are that they treated this like a college student who wrote their term paper the night before.  More questions than answers, and literally just made bullet points of obvious protocols, like masks and social distancing. They put on a dog and pony show, and RCL fanboys lapped it up. How about you let us know about November? My sailing is about 40 days away, and I have no clue if it's going out or not. Do I need to be looking at getting tested a week before? If so, I need to take an additional day of of work to do so. When is the cutoff point for them canceling? Is it while I'm at the airport? Shame on them for dragging people along like this. If you don't have answers 30 days prior, then you do right by your customers and cancel.

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47 minutes ago, AndrewPunch said:

The other issue is the open an honest culture mindset with crew about feeling sick.

The Panel points out there needs to be an openness in order to promote honesty.

"Cruise lines should take care in their communication with guests to help create a collective understanding of responsibility for the health of one’s fellow guests and the crew who are essential to the cruise experience. This includes education around the need for honesty and timeliness in reporting of COVID-19 symptoms or exposure without fear of negative repercussions."

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I think it's a good start and I like most of the recommendations.  They laid out the measures that they recommend be taken, which ones should be adjusted as time goes on and which ones would be here for good.  They also went into substantial detail on what each one could look like and their rational for them.

I'm ok with being in a holding pattern right now, there's too many unknowns and too much at stake to make a quick decision right now. The CWC program has given people that want more certainty the ability to get a FCC for later or lift and shift their cruise to next year, so in theory (some exceptions apply) the only people left booked are the ones that are ok with taking a chance of sailing and with what measures may be in play.

One of the important things to keep in mind for it is that this was written as a collaboration between two companies meant to be distributed to everyone involved, including the CDC and other cruise lines.  It's here in large part to get the CDC's ok on it in principal or any changes they'd like to it, and to make sure everyone's operating off the same proposal towards the same goal. It outlines what should happen not the details on how to make it happen.  The logistics and planning for getting from "This is what should happen" to "This is how we're making it a reality" are going to differ from ship to ship, cruise line to cruise line, and country to country.  

I would be _shocked_ if there weren't detailed (contingency) plans internally, various options for which ships could start first, what itineraries could be, how to get crew back and trained, any potential modifications to ships, ongoing discussions with different cruise ports, etc etc etc.  They're internal though because until there's less uncertainty around a start time and (potentially mandated) restrictions they're meaningless.  I have a feeling that once things are firmed up and there's an actual start date that information will be flowing fast.

Or I'm wrong and instead of working towards saving a multi billion dollar company and industry they're just playing in a bouncy castle drinking beer and hoping it blows over.  It's all just speculation at this point unless you're directly involved.

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1 hour ago, CruisinForABruisin said:

My thoughts are that they treated this like a college student who wrote their term paper the night before. 

They didn't craft their response to the CDC on a whim.  The panel has some pretty seasoned members many of who also have active roles related to the virus for other organizations while they also do work for the Healthy Sail Panel.   The panel was formed July 6.  They worked on their response for over two months and wrote the 74 page response based on what the CDC asked them to submit not what some of the public might be seeking.

They aren't finished.  It's the first step of a process with a goal of obtaining CDC approval to move to the next step.    

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I am not a fan of the cruise sponsored excursions only, which is supposed to be temporary. I do understand the point of it from a safety aspect, but it also destroys the destination for those that just want to visit a new area and don't want to pay for an excursion just to get off the boat in the destination that they already paid to travel to.. Just my opinion, I realize there is not an easy option for any of the cruise lines to offer, so I get it. Everyone has to make sacrifices if we want to return to cruising. 

I'm in the process of utilizing Lift and Shift on my cruise since it was supposed to be for December - since the excursion I do in Cozumel isn't through Royal Caribbean. I don't have an issue waiting another year and seeing how the return to cruising goes before going myself. 

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13 minutes ago, KyleW22 said:

I am not a fan of the cruise sponsored excursions only, which is supposed to be temporary. I do understand the point of it from a safety aspect, but it also destroys the destination for those that just want to visit a new area and don't want to pay for an excursion just to get off the boat in the destination that they already paid to travel to.. Just my opinion, I realize there is not an easy option for any of the cruise lines to offer, so I get it. Everyone has to make sacrifices if we want to return to cruising. 

I'm in the process of utilizing Lift and Shift on my cruise since it was supposed to be for December - since the excursion I do in Cozumel isn't through Royal Caribbean. I don't have an issue waiting another year and seeing how the return to cruising goes before going myself. 

Welcome to the message boards!

Cruising during the restart and early phases won't be for everyone and it's great to see that you have thought through the ramifications and are choosing the best option for your vacation.  Like yourself there are many destinations where I like to self explore so I'm carefully considering my itineraries from a perspective I've never had to look at them before.  Some itinerary and ship fit this approach like a glove, other itineraries and ship don't fit this concept as well.  

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2 hours ago, AndrewPunch said:

 The biggest one will be the denial of boarding if there is an issue/pre cruise testing.  We would be traveling from the midwest to Florida and who knows what will happen with the flying in a day early.  How is Royal going to handle the your kid has a fever, thanks for coming but the door is that way? or what?

 

 

Hopefully its thanks for coming but the door is that way! 

Distance doesnt come into the equation! if anyone is showing symptoms they cannot be allowed to board! Its that simple.

Imagine the bad press and lawsuits if it came out they knowingly allowed someone with symptoms to board who then infected others. 

Travelling from UK to PR in March if i got there and wad denied boarding due to symptoms i would be more concerned with getting medical treatment 

 

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28 minutes ago, twangster said:

Welcome to the message boards!

Cruising during the restart and early phases won't be for everyone and it's great to see that you have thought through the ramifications and are choosing the best option for your vacation.  Like yourself there are many destinations where I like to self explore so I'm carefully considering my itineraries from a perspective I've never had to look at them before.  Some itinerary and ship fit this approach like a glove, other itineraries and ship don't fit this concept as well.  

Thanks! I used to have an account on here but unfortunately lost access to the email linked to it, so had to start over since I couldn't remember my login info.

It is definitely a tricky time. At this point, I'm just thankful I transferred my booking to Michelle at MEI, she has been excellent throughout this whole process with my many questions in this time of uncertainty. 

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1 hour ago, Ray said:

Hopefully its thanks for coming but the door is that way! 

Distance doesnt come into the equation! if anyone is showing symptoms they cannot be allowed to board! Its that simple.

Imagine the bad press and lawsuits if it came out they knowingly allowed someone with symptoms to board who then infected others. 

Travelling from UK to PR in March if i got there and wad denied boarding due to symptoms i would be more concerned with getting medical treatment 

 

I don't disagree at all, but I definitely understand what Andrew is saying.

Heck, people pick up sniffles and a fever all the time; what happens if one of 

those times is at pre-board?  Surely everyone in the party will have had taken the

Covid test a couple of days earlier and all with negative results.

 

I worry about having a fever when I go to the gym and being denied.  I can't imagine

the rage these folks will see from people who flew in from the midwest, or like me - I

just drove 7 hours and paid for this hotel and I can't go because I have a little fever?

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26 minutes ago, Floski said:

I don't disagree at all, but I definitely understand what Andrew is saying.

Heck, people pick up sniffles and a fever all the time; what happens if one of 

those times is at pre-board?   

Do they? (honest question, not being snarky).  The ONLY time I have a fever, I'm sick, and I know I'm sick, and I shouldn't be going to work or on a cruise.  Sniffles yes, but do people pick up a fever with allergies and common colds?

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13 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Do they? (honest question, not being snarky).  The ONLY time I have a fever, I'm sick, and I know I'm sick, and I shouldn't be going to work or on a cruise.  Sniffles yes, but do people pick up a fever with allergies and common colds?

Yes and no.  I pretty much constantly have the sniffles this time of the year due to allergies (even on medication for it).  Fever's a bit different, I rarely get one of those unless I'm sick...and I know I'm sick.  A common cold is a virus, so yeah, you could expect a fever with that.

Until details around the secondary screening they've mentioned are announced it's hard to say what's involved, but we can look back to March of this year when they announced secondary screenings and what they'd entail: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/03/05/royal-caribbean-adding-mandatory-temperature-screenings-screen-coronavirus-guests

If your temperature is above 100.4°F or 38° C, you and those in your party will undergo a secondary health screening. Temperatures will be taken with a digital, no-touch thermometer.

If you require a secondary screening, this is what you can expect:

Your temperature will be checked again.

You'll undergo a pulse oximetry reading. This means, a small device will be placed on your finger to measure your oxygen level.

If you happen to have a chronic lung illness, like asthma, please bring a letter from your medical practitioner that indicates your normal baseline oxygen saturation levels. This will help ensure you are not denied boarding if you are healthy otherwise.

Then, a medical professional will check you for flu-like symptoms, respiratory illness, etc., and would make a final assessment to understand if you're fit to sail.

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3 minutes ago, joshgates said:

Yes and no.  I pretty much constantly have the sniffles this time of the year due to allergies (even on medication for it).  Fever's a bit different, I rarely get one of those unless I'm sick...and I know I'm sick.  A common cold is a virus, so yeah, you could expect a fever with that.

Until details around the secondary screening they've mentioned are announced it's hard to say what's involved, but we can look back to March of this year when they announced secondary screenings and what they'd entail: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/03/05/royal-caribbean-adding-mandatory-temperature-screenings-screen-coronavirus-guests

If your temperature is above 100.4°F or 38° C, you and those in your party will undergo a secondary health screening. Temperatures will be taken with a digital, no-touch thermometer.

If you require a secondary screening, this is what you can expect:

Your temperature will be checked again.

You'll undergo a pulse oximetry reading. This means, a small device will be placed on your finger to measure your oxygen level.

If you happen to have a chronic lung illness, like asthma, please bring a letter from your medical practitioner that indicates your normal baseline oxygen saturation levels. This will help ensure you are not denied boarding if you are healthy otherwise.

Then, a medical professional will check you for flu-like symptoms, respiratory illness, etc., and would make a final assessment to understand if you're fit to sail.

Yeah, I'd have to bring a letter because my pulse ox is consistently low.   My temp tends to run around 96-97 range, so if it's over 100 I feel like I'm dying.  It's very rare for me. 

 

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20 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Do they? (honest question, not being snarky).  The ONLY time I have a fever, I'm sick, and I know I'm sick, and I shouldn't be going to work or on a cruise.  Sniffles yes, but do people pick up a fever with allergies and common colds?

Great point! As an adult, no. I do not run fever with allergies nor did I as a child. However, my younger brother was a whole different story. He would run a fever for no apparent reason sometimes or it would be due to an ear infection. You would have never known the kid was running fever, but he was. 

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4 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Yeah, I'd have to bring a letter because my pulse ox is consistently low.   My temp tends to run around 96-97 range, so if it's over 100 I feel like I'm dying.  It's very rare for me. 

 

Yep, that's me as well. I had a letter (I'm asthmatic) with me for my March cruise. I was on the last ship out of Galveston before shut down. They were doing temp checks. Didn't even have to show my letter because my temp check was fine. 

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1 hour ago, Floski said:

I don't disagree at all, but I definitely understand what Andrew is saying.

Heck, people pick up sniffles and a fever all the time; what happens if one of 

 

I think it has been forgotten that even before covid RC had policies in place to refuse anyone from boarding who had a fever or was coughing badly. 

 

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1 hour ago, Floski said:

I can't imagine

the rage these folks will see from people who flew in from the midwest, or like me - I

just drove 7 hours and paid for this hotel and I can't go because I have a little fever?

I can !!!! And i can ALSO imagine the rage if you or anyone else comes down with a virus be it covid or anything else and then finding out the person was ill before boarding but was allowed to board,  im 100% certain you would be complaining to anyone that would listen and quite rightly so.

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5 hours ago, CruisinForABruisin said:

How about you let us know about November? My sailing is about 40 days away, and I have no clue if it's going out or not. Do I need to be looking at getting tested a week before? If so, I need to take an additional day of of work to do so. When is the cutoff point for them canceling? Is it while I'm at the airport? Shame on them for dragging people along like this. If you don't have answers 30 days prior, then you do right by your customers and cancel.

If this is something that you are seriously sweating for any/all of the reasons you mentioned, that's where Cruise with Confidence comes into play.  Take the FCC and use it on a future sailing when things are more certain and there is less of a chance that you will be inconvenienced by last minute changes, restrictions, or cancellations.  

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9 minutes ago, AshleyDillo said:

If this is something that you are seriously sweating for any/all of the reasons you mentioned, that's where Cruise with Confidence comes into play.  Take the FCC and use it on a future sailing when things are more certain and there is less of a chance that you will be inconvenienced by last minute changes, restrictions, or cancellations.  

I have a casino rate, the FCC wouldn't get me far with the high rates they have in the future. They won't let me lift and shift, so I definitely would like to know where they stand, so I can free up $$$ that I have invested in flights, hotels, drink/dining packages, and excursions.

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Has anyone looked into the COVID tests?  My insurance won’t cover it unless it’s medically required which in this case it’s not.  Most tests I’ve found our $100 each which means another $200 to our cruising budget.  I understand the need for the test but places are going to make a pretty penny with this.  Does anyone happen to have any thoughts?

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12 hours ago, mcdonaldbarbara said:

Has anyone looked into the COVID tests?  My insurance won’t cover it unless it’s medically required which in this case it’s not.  Most tests I’ve found our $100 each which means another $200 to our cruising budget.  I understand the need for the test but places are going to make a pretty penny with this.  Does anyone happen to have any thoughts?

General consensus right now is to wait it out until we get closer and see what Royal Caribbean says in terms of what will be necessary.  A lot can change in the next month.

Welcome to the message boards, @mcdonaldbarbara!

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35 minutes ago, Matt said:

General consensus right now is to wait it out until we get closer and see what Royal Caribbean says in terms of what will be necessary.  A lot can change in the next month.

Welcome to the message boards, @mcdonaldbarbara!

With all due respect, how much closer can you get? First cruise leaves in 33 days, so most have to leave in 32, which means testing is about 27 days out, and that's if you can get into a testing facility on the time and date you desire, and your results aren't delayed, or show a false positive, requiring a new test. How is this fire drill feasible?

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I don't think they have much choice. I assume if the CDC is to extend the no sail order, cruises will be cancelled, and if not cruises will be attempted to start November 1st. It would be nice if the CDC were to signal their intention, eg "The No Sail Order will be allowed to expire on October 1st." They have showed no intention of doing this, so cruise lines are at their mercy.

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2 hours ago, CruisinForABruisin said:

With all due respect, how much closer can you get? First cruise leaves in 33 days, so most have to leave in 32, which means testing is about 27 days out, and that's if you can get into a testing facility on the time and date you desire, and your results aren't delayed, or show a false positive, requiring a new test. How is this fire drill feasible?

There isn't much other choice. This isn't a space shuttle launch, it's a cruise.

If you're booked on a cruise in November and feel uncomfortable with where things are, you should absolutely Lift and Shift or take 100% FCC and defer your cruise a few months until it's clearer. There is unprecedented flexibility offered right now that no one who feels this is a "fire drill" should have to wait it out.

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23 minutes ago, Matt said:

There isn't much other choice. This isn't a space shuttle launch, it's a cruise.

If you're booked on a cruise in November and feel uncomfortable with where things are, you should absolutely Lift and Shift or take 100% FCC and defer your cruise a few months until it's clearer. There is unprecedented flexibility offered right now that no one who feels this is a "fire drill" should have to wait it out.

Casino Royale is not offering  nearly as much flexibility, i have tried 3 different times, working with 3 different people, and all they can do is give a future credit, which does nothing at those rates, when you consider how high future sailings are priced at. 

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1 hour ago, CruisinForABruisin said:

Casino Royale is not offering  nearly as much flexibility, i have tried 3 different times, working with 3 different people, and all they can do is give a future credit, which does nothing at those rates, when you consider how high future sailings are priced at. 

In the case of Casino Royale, it's such a steal of a deal and there will be others where the came from.  So ride it out until you cant knowing there will be other deals down the road.

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