Family is suing Royal Caribbean after misdiagnosis aboard Symphony of the Seas

[princevaliantus]

2 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Your first paragraph is pure non sequitur: if RC isn't prepared to provide standard emergency medical care to children, as outlined by the medical organizations which govern such things, they shouldn't let children sail.

As for your second: unless you're a medical doctor or healthcare practitioner I'm not sure why your opinion or rhetorical question about "what else could be done" counts for anything. It is the standard of care to treat suspected meningitis in babies with a cocktail of drugs by IV until it is ruled out. The child presented with classical symptoms of meningitis and a high level of parental concern. I wonder why you believe an airlift wouldn't have been possible... In cases where that's truly the case (some portions of TA or where there are more than 2 sea days in a row) the sailing age is raised to 12 months for precisely the reasons I brought up above: you cannot get a child to medical care as quickly as may be required because of the severity and rapid onset of things like... Well: meningitis. Responsible sailing hinges on making tough decisions when needed. 

There is ONE important thing you are constantly avoiding to see which is that cruise lines are NOT governed in any by the United States, but have different standards and requirements outlined below:

Ships from the main cruise lines all will have at least one doctor and two nurses onboard. Many larger ships sail with two doctors and three or four nurses. Ships must have medical staff on call 24 hours. Medical personnel (both physicians and registered nurses) must have at least three (3) years of postgraduate experience in general and emergency medicine or board certification in emergency medicine, family medicine or internal medicine.

To get an idea of the staff's credentials, most cruise lines requires that its physicians be registered in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, South Africa, a European Union country or any other country approved by the fleet medical director. Medical personnel must also have completed the required number of years of training in a recognized school of medicine.

Staff must be able to perform advanced life support practices, emergency cardiovascular care and minor surgical procedures. They are expected to stabilize seriously ill patients, perform reasonable diagnostic and therapeutic interventions, and help evacuate seriously sick or injured patients. Doctors and nurses also are required to be fluent in the predominant language of the ship.

Cruise ship medical facilities must adhere to the standards set by the American College of Emergency Physicians. The ACEP guidelines dictate that the infirmary must contain the proper equipment to handle a range of treatments and diagnostics. Among its equipment, the facility should have wheelchairs, a stretcher, back board for spine immobilization, lab capabilities for tests, oxygen, EKG capability, two defibrillators, cardiac monitors and other equipment to gauge vital signs.

The Cruise Line International Association, the world's largest cruise industry trade organization, also sets standards of care for its member cruise lines.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says ship infirmary capabilities vary depending on size, length of sailing and passenger demographics. The CDC compares shipboard facilities to ambulatory care centers.

As it stands now, their are stories floating around of what really was done. In my 30+ years in the Medical Malpractice field, I've seen and heard alot of stories and I've learned not to jump to conclusions as we have not seen the videos, transcripts, meds, etc. in order to come to a FINAL conclusion as to who is at fault, but, what I've seen so far is that this child had meningitis before boarding the cruise and RCG did the best it could. No doubt this is a child who will have a rough road ahead of them. My prayers will remain with the family who is going through this whole ordeal. Let's all keep calm and be rational thinkers as we cannot be put in the same shoes as this family or this child.

[LizzyBee23]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

Now should we blame RC or should we blame the medical staff? 

I think that's where the crux of the case is... I would think it would end at the doctor who repeatedly sent them away, though I guess you could argue that doctor was under pressure *not* to order a medical evacuation or that RC somehow encouraged a culture of under-reaction. 

My issue is with the people waving this away as some unavoidable tragedy. That's just not accurate... A trigger-happy standard of care around meningitis is one of the reasons infant mortality has dropped so much in the last few decades. At the very least, this doctor should face a very thorough professional review and this lawsuit will accomplish that. Hopefully we'll find that RC's policies didn't discourage the doctor from recommending medical evacuation, but if that happens to be the case then I hope this forces their hand to change their culture as well.

[TXcruzer]

1 hour ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Your first paragraph is pure non sequitur: if RC isn't prepared to provide standard emergency medical care to children, as outlined by the medical organizations which govern such things, they shouldn't let children sail.

As for your second: unless you're a medical doctor or healthcare practitioner I'm not sure why your opinion or rhetorical question about "what else could be done" counts for anything. It is the standard of care to treat suspected meningitis in babies with a cocktail of drugs by IV until it is ruled out. The child presented with classical symptoms of meningitis and a high level of parental concern. I wonder why you believe an airlift wouldn't have been possible... In cases where that's truly the case (some portions of TA or where there are more than 2 sea days in a row) the sailing age is raised to 12 months for precisely the reasons I brought up above: you cannot get a child to medical care as quickly as may be required because of the severity and rapid onset of things like... Well: meningitis. Responsible sailing hinges on making tough decisions when needed. 

I am a medical practitioner (30 years, albeit not in pediatrics), you have your thoughts, and I have emergency medical and surgical experience. It’s obvious we will not see eye to eye on this. I postulate that appropriate care was given with the facilities at hand. 

i also know for a fact that your opinions on airlift from a cruise ship are just plain wrong; however we will also not agree on that. 
 

Enjoy your day. 

[LizzyBee23]

16 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

I postulate that appropriate care was given with the facilities at hand. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3508436001

The baby had petechial rash. The doctor didn't prescribe antibiotics until the family essentially holed up in the infirmary demanding that a doctor actually come and see their daughter. The doctor finally acknowledged a possible diagnosis of meningitis almost 24 hours after the baby first showed up in clinic with tell-tale symptoms of a disease with a 50% mortality rate if treatment doesn't begin immediately. Tell me how on earth this is adequate care. 

Honestly, this has me reconsidering our cruises with our kids.

[SpeedNoodles]

27 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3508436001

The baby had petechial rash. The doctor didn't prescribe antibiotics until the family essentially holed up in the infirmary demanding that a doctor actually come and see their daughter. The doctor finally acknowledged a possible diagnosis of meningitis almost 24 hours after the baby first showed up in clinic with tell-tale symptoms of a disease with a 50% mortality rate if treatment doesn't begin immediately. Tell me how on earth this is adequate care. 

Honestly, this has me reconsidering our cruises with our kids.

Again, this is one side of the story and may, or may not, be accurate.

[twangster]

There are thousands of malpractice lawsuits against health care practitioners in process across America today.  It still amazes me how you add the word "cruise" to one of those and it becomes newsworthy.   

[TXcruzer]

5 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3508436001

The baby had petechial rash. The doctor didn't prescribe antibiotics until the family essentially holed up in the infirmary demanding that a doctor actually come and see their daughter. The doctor finally acknowledged a possible diagnosis of meningitis almost 24 hours after the baby first showed up in clinic with tell-tale symptoms of a disease with a 50% mortality rate if treatment doesn't begin immediately. Tell me how on earth this is adequate care. 

Honestly, this has me reconsidering our cruises with our kids.

I think you are right, you should stay home.

By the way, Petechiae is an extremely common finding in a laundry list of disease and or traumatic processes; one has to go WAY down the list before one considers bacterial meningitis.

[LizzyBee23]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

There are thousands of malpractice lawsuits against health care practitioners in process across America today.  It still amazes me how you add the word "cruise" to one of those and it becomes newsworthy.   

You're right... But for me personally it's been a lesson in expectations, and some of that is because of the cruise line's practices. I just assumed a doctor on board a ship with a nursery would be licensed at least in family practice, or the ship would make sure there was a pediatrician available for consult. Well, I've discovered that's not the case. It looks like only MSC has committed to having a doctor capable of serving pediatric patients on board. That's kind of a big deal to me as the parent of young children. 

Having read the second account I posted above, I think the doctors on board are the ones who failed this little girl. The fact that her parents couldn't readily get a second opinion is not reassuring though... I think if I had been in their situation, I would have used a telehealth service to try to get someone else to advocate for me, and hopefully many of these health concerns will be addressed when cruising resumes out of necessity for the realities of the world today. 

[LizzyBee23]

6 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

By the way, Petechiae is an extremely common finding in a laundry list of disease and or traumatic processes; one has to go WAY down the list before one considers bacterial meningitis.

How kind. By the way, you're wrong about that... meningitis is the first thing you rule out in a child presenting with petechial rash and fever.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482331/

If you really were a medical practitioner, your account here is a perfect example of why someone qualified to care for children should be on board.

[Ray]

22 hours ago, LizzyBee23 said:

though I guess you could argue that doctor was under pressure *not* to order a medical evacuation or that RC somehow encouraged a culture of under-reaction. 

Maybe you could guess or even make up stories which spread like wildfire on the internet! 

This 1 comment above not only questions RC as a company but also questions the morals and ethics of EVERY doctor who works on cruiselines. 

Pretty sure there is a lawyer somewhere that could look at this as being slanderish and tarnishing the name of RC and the Doctor involved when you have no evidence to back up your words 

[TXcruzer]

35 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

How kind. By the way, you're wrong about that... meningitis is the first thing you rule out in a child presenting with petechial rash and fever.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482331/

If you really were a medical practitioner, your account here is a perfect example of why someone qualified to care for children should be on board.

Well you found the end all be all authoritative article; I defer to your clinical expertise. 

[TXcruzer]

4 minutes ago, Ray said:

Maybe you could guess or even make up stories which spread like wildfire on the internet! 

This 1 comment above not only questions RC as a company but also questions the morals and ethics of EVERY doctor who works on cruiselines. 

Pretty sure there is a lawyer somewhere that could look at this as being slanderish and tarnishing the name of RC and the Doctor involved when you have no evidence to back up your words 

so correct. 
 

The fact that this poster actually believes that a medical evacuation is possible in every circumstance is laughable (add to that you need to find a pediatric capable evac option makes it even more unlikely) 

[LizzyBee23]

4 minutes ago, Ray said:

This 1 comment above not only questions RC as a company but also questions the morals and ethics of EVERY doctor who works on cruiselines. 

Umm... Context is important. I presented that as a possibility for the type of argument the plaintiff's lawyer may try to make. Cute trick, though.

[LizzyBee23]

2 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

so correct. 
 

The fact that this poster actually believes that a medical evacuation is possible in every circumstance is laughable (add to that you need to find a pediatric capable evac option makes it even more unlikely) 

Then. Stop. Advertising. Cruises. To. Families.

[twangster]

47 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

You're right... But for me personally it's been a lesson in expectations, and some of that is because of the cruise line's practices. I just assumed a doctor on board a ship with a nursery would be licensed at least in family practice, or the ship would make sure there was a pediatrician available for consult. Well, I've discovered that's not the case. It looks like only MSC has committed to having a doctor capable of serving pediatric patients on board. That's kind of a big deal to me as the parent of young children. 

Having read the second account I posted above, I think the doctors on board are the ones who failed this little girl. The fact that her parents couldn't readily get a second opinion is not reassuring though... I think if I had been in their situation, I would have used a telehealth service to try to get someone else to advocate for me, and hopefully many of these health concerns will be addressed when cruising resumes out of necessity for the realities of the world today. 

https://www.hickeylawfirm.com/blog/why-did-a-child-mysteriously-die-aboard-a-cruise-ship-earlier-this-week-msc-cruises-refuses-to

Terrible thing life can be.  Sad situation.

[TXcruzer]

7 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Then. Stop. Advertising. Cruises. To. Families.

Have. Personal. Responsibility. And. Realize. Crap. Happens. Sometimes. It. Isn’t. Always. Someone’s. Fault. 

[TXcruzer]

16 minutes ago, twangster said:

https://www.hickeylawfirm.com/blog/why-did-a-child-mysteriously-die-aboard-a-cruise-ship-earlier-this-week-msc-cruises-refuses-to

Terrible thing life can be.  Sad situation.

But, but, but wait. MSC Cruises is the ONLY cruise line in the world that staffs a pediatric specialist for their customer’s benefit!!

[Ray]

1 hour ago, LizzyBee23 said:

Umm... Context is important. I presented that as a possibility for the type of argument the plaintiff's lawyer may try to make. Cute trick, though.

Hahaha 

Thats a faster turn around than an F1 pitstop! 

Your comment said everything it needed as at no time was it described as what a lawyer may think...its what you wrote because its what you think.

You need to stop swimming in the Egyptian river as you as always in denial lol 

[LizzyBee23]

4 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

Personal. Responsibility.

Oh lord. "Personal Responsibility" isn't going to get you the resources you need in a medical emergency... Especially when you've been misled about the resources available or given bad medical advice with no recourse. And your snide comment about another tragedy on a different cruise ship: there are even fewer details about that one, but surely you can acknowledge the difference between the possibility of negligence and an act of God. 

3 hours ago, Ray said:

Thats a faster turn around than an F1 pitstop! 

Well, my hugely insulting friend: you're the one that posed the binary hypothetical my post was an answer to.

But anyway, to both of you inexplicably patronizing posters: I wish you nothing but good health, and smooth sailing (once this is all over). I have a feeling medical care on board will be much improved as a result of the times we're living through when we all get the chance to be back on the sea.

[princevaliantus]

I think it's about time @Matt locks this thread. This tit-for-tat baseless comments and claims is giving me a headache.