princevaliantus Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 The writing was on the wall ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/08/25/cruise-lines-are-already-canceling-sailings-into-2021/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_btw-cruises-8pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-top-table-main_btw-cruises-8pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&fbclid=IwAR3ASBRAntjUaRZjxRWIRU9yXTSqwUJccqFaab_wOvgI31LBB91C8f7uwNk WAAAYTOOO, crisgold52, cruisellama and 3 others 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mook1525 Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 uh oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe01 Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 I really think it's foolish to cancel sailings which are 5+ months away. You never know what could happen. I thought back in May/June that it would be several months until I got my life back since things were moving so slowly in Scotland but by the end of July and into August, I've pretty much got my full life back. I also think that the situation in the USA shouldn't dictate what happens in the rest of the world - could Royal not try cruises in Europe, Asia or even Australia? Some income and ships going is better than none. Definitely way safer to cruise from any European port than it is to cruise from the US at the moment but most companies seem to interpret CDC rules as worldwide when they only apply to sailings from the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jticarruthers Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 Disappointing to see as Joe01 noted at this point I am just about back to living my life as normal, if it was up to me i wouldnt need to see anything different from the cruise lines to sail now than they always used to do. With that said i gave up on trying to find cruises "close in" to rebook to. If they do start to sail soon I might do a last minute but my closest current booking is now at May 2021 and with the way this garbage is dragging on I wouldnt be surprised if that gets cancelled eventually too. crisgold52 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSLC5 Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, princevaliantus said: The writing was on the wall ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/08/25/cruise-lines-are-already-canceling-sailings-into-2021/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_btw-cruises-8pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-top-table-main_btw-cruises-8pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&fbclid=IwAR3ASBRAntjUaRZjxRWIRU9yXTSqwUJccqFaab_wOvgI31LBB91C8f7uwNk Disagree with you.. Princess canceled their around the world sailings.. Of course they did how could they control the amount of ports they were going to. That has NOTHING to do with Royal being able to operate some cruises to the Caribbean. I am not saying Royal will be able to operate fully and go everywhere but I do believe they will be able to go to the Caribbean.. And Cunard another specialty line I don't consider what they do to have any effect on what Royal does.. This article doesn't scare me at all.. I do believe at some point in 2021 Royal will be sailing the Caribbean and the Bahamas.. mjb1127, Baked Alaska and USFFrank 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, AGSLC5 said: Disagree with you.. Princess canceled their around the world sailings.. Of course they did how could they control the amount of ports they were going to. That has NOTHING to do with Royal being able to operate some cruises to the Caribbean. I am not saying Royal will be able to operate fully and go everywhere but I do believe they will be able to go to the Caribbean.. And Cunard another specialty line I don't consider what they do to have any effect on what Royal does.. This article doesn't scare me at all.. I do believe at some point in 2021 Royal will be sailing the Caribbean and the Bahamas.. There is nothing to disagree with as I neither wrote the article nor did I state that Princess cancelled all their sailing. I just stated the writing was on the wall in reference that we all knew ports of calls access would be an issue, which is what Princess Cruises has stated in the article, and I quote, “due to limitations with border and port access.”. RCCL will be sailing, most likely, shorter cruises and since RCCL has private island(s), that is the saving grace under the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, insofar, if ports do not open, RCCL still will have the capability to cruise if the Caribbean ports do not open at some point. teddy and ehw51 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 44 minutes ago, Joe01 said: I really think it's foolish to cancel sailings which are 5+ months away. You never know what could happen. I thought back in May/June that it would be several months until I got my life back since things were moving so slowly in Scotland but by the end of July and into August, I've pretty much got my full life back. I also think that the situation in the USA shouldn't dictate what happens in the rest of the world - could Royal not try cruises in Europe, Asia or even Australia? Some income and ships going is better than none. Definitely way safer to cruise from any European port than it is to cruise from the US at the moment but most companies seem to interpret CDC rules as worldwide when they only apply to sailings from the USA. Yup!! Agree 100%! Joe01 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe01 Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 I don't even see why cruise lines are being so unfairly targeted when several flights are taking off and landing every day. I also use trains very frequently, also quite risky , especially since they are getting busier now. If anything, cruise ships were definitely very ahead of their time with the handwashing stations. That was never a common thing on land, and indeed, probably should have been. There was a study carried out finding out that many McDonalds touchscreens were absolutely filthy. Definitely a huge risk to the public. Not the case on a ship. I imagine that the hand washing stations will become commonplace in the future post COVID but it's by no means a new idea. crisgold52, coneyraven and mjb1127 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 Wont be any coming to Canada for the next few years for sure..... crisgold52 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 43 minutes ago, monctonguy said: Wont be any coming to Canada for the next few years for sure..... Is there a start date for port to open up ??? crisgold52 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSLC5 Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, princevaliantus said: There is nothing to disagree with as I neither wrote the article nor did I state that Princess cancelled all their sailing. I just stated the writing was on the wall in reference that we all knew ports of calls access would be an issue, which is what Princess Cruises has stated in the article, and I quote, “due to limitations with border and port access.”. RCCL will be sailing, most likely, shorter cruises and since RCCL has private island(s), that is the saving grace under the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, insofar, if ports do not open, RCCL still will have the capability to cruise if the Caribbean ports do not open at some point. I disagree with you saying the writing is on the wall.. I don't believe that article proves the writing is on the wall for Royal Caribbean.. All I was trying to say. Poolside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 3 hours ago, princevaliantus said: Is there a start date for port to open up ??? Nothing yet...but our medical chief officer has stated 2-3 years to expect shut down and restrictions…..some of our provinces have had ZERO deaths and ZERO hospitalizations or like 2 ppl and we still cant do anything.....I predict a huge spike this winter in Canada which will push us back another year or two....it appears the US is getting ahead of us now when it comes to testing and equipment and vaccine trials..... But yeah, if I was a betting man I would defn say 2021 is a write off...I thinking 2022 before they start to allow Canadians to travel and tourists to come here....and that's based on todays cases...a 2nd wave will shoot that to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, monctonguy said: Nothing yet...but our medical chief officer has stated 2-3 years to expect shut down and restrictions…..some of our provinces have had ZERO deaths and ZERO hospitalizations or like 2 ppl and we still cant do anything.....I predict a huge spike this winter in Canada which will push us back another year or two....it appears the US is getting ahead of us now when it comes to testing and equipment and vaccine trials..... But yeah, if I was a betting man I would defn say 2021 is a write off...I thinking 2022 before they start to allow Canadians to travel and tourists to come here....and that's based on todays cases...a 2nd wave will shoot that to hell. There goes the 15 nite I had booked for Oct. 2021...time to start searching. monctonguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monctonguy Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, princevaliantus said: There goes the 15 nite I had booked for Oct. 2021...time to start searching. Dont want to ruin it for you..but if they wont let dying people see a family member...they aren't letting 3000 tourists off to explore the waterfront...they have just started now making masks mandatory in some provinces where they have ZERO active cases...so yeah...dont count on Canada for vacation plans any time soon! Baked Alaska, princevaliantus, crisgold52 and 1 other 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Cruiser Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Joe01 said: I don't even see why cruise lines are being so unfairly targeted when several flights are taking off and landing every day. I also use trains very frequently, also quite risky , especially since they are getting busier now. If anything, cruise ships were definitely very ahead of their time with the handwashing stations. That was never a common thing on land, and indeed, probably should have been. There was a study carried out finding out that many McDonalds touchscreens were absolutely filthy. Definitely a huge risk to the public. Not the case on a ship. I imagine that the hand washing stations will become commonplace in the future post COVID but it's by no means a new idea. Could it be because air travel is a necessity for most people whereas cruising is a luxury? KWofPerth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted August 26, 2020 Report Share Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, monctonguy said: Dont want to ruin it for you..but if they wont let dying people see a family member...they aren't letting 3000 tourists off to explore the waterfront...they have just started now making masks mandatory in some provinces where they have ZERO active cases...so yeah...dont count on Canada for vacation plans any time soon! How is anyone going to cruise to Alaska from the US? Dang Canadians! Actually it’s our stupid law requiring a foreign port. Not sure I should get my hopes up for a 2022 Alaska. monctonguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 hours ago, crisgold52 said: If Canada allows ships one can simply embark out of Vancouver BC my home port. But @monctonguy said 2-3 years of restrictions. Ouch! So maybe May 2022 is safe? crisgold52 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanelli56 Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 21 hours ago, Joe01 said: I really think it's foolish to cancel sailings which are 5+ months away. You never know what could happen. I thought back in May/June that it would be several months until I got my life back since things were moving so slowly in Scotland but by the end of July and into August, I've pretty much got my full life back. I also think that the situation in the USA shouldn't dictate what happens in the rest of the world - could Royal not try cruises in Europe, Asia or even Australia? Some income and ships going is better than none. Definitely way safer to cruise from any European port than it is to cruise from the US at the moment but most companies seem to interpret CDC rules as worldwide when they only apply to sailings from the USA. Good morning Joe. Regarding about being safer in Europe vs. US... Not sure I completely agree... but I can only speak from what I see and read/hear in the US. I would say honestly its all optics motivated by the hyper elevated political environment we all live in, advanced by a media that will do all it can to get clicks, views, and likes.... along with an upcoming election here in the states. Basically.... the news will hype anything to get attention. I say all this, along with the anecdotal stuff I have heard... Personally, yes I have heard of people dying in my neighborhood from covid, but each one was already in poor health. I've also heard of people that got hit head on in a car crash... and they were added to the covid death numbers. Also talked to people at my place of business that have tested positive along with their kids, and they said they literally never felt a single symptom at all. So, while I am sure each persons view and experience is different... I just think with all the conflicting information (right or wrong, true or misleading) makes it extremely difficult for everyone to make good decisions. With allllllllll that being said..... Dang I wish we could cruise! Personally, as soon as it sounds like they are starting back up.... I'm going to call my TA and say.... 'SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!" Take care everyone. ~Cheers Jill, RCVoyager and ehw51 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimnKathy Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 2:58 PM, Jill said: How is anyone going to cruise to Alaska from the US? Dang Canadians! Actually it’s our stupid law requiring a foreign port. Not sure I should get my hopes up for a 2022 Alaska. You'll be able to sail out of Seattle (cue the riot/protest jokes and video clips) to visit Alaska if Canada isn't available. Jill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 6:23 AM, princevaliantus said: The writing was on the wall ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/08/25/cruise-lines-are-already-canceling-sailings-into-2021/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_btw-cruises-8pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-top-table-main_btw-cruises-8pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&fbclid=IwAR3ASBRAntjUaRZjxRWIRU9yXTSqwUJccqFaab_wOvgI31LBB91C8f7uwNk Cunard also pushed start to end of March '21. Need some ports to open to enable operational restart. Several chickens and several eggs trying to figure out who comes out first. o WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe01 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 11:47 AM, vanelli56 said: Good morning Joe. Regarding about being safer in Europe vs. US... Not sure I completely agree... but I can only speak from what I see and read/hear in the US. I would say honestly its all optics motivated by the hyper elevated political environment we all live in, advanced by a media that will do all it can to get clicks, views, and likes.... along with an upcoming election here in the states. Basically.... the news will hype anything to get attention. I say all this, along with the anecdotal stuff I have heard... Personally, yes I have heard of people dying in my neighborhood from covid, but each one was already in poor health. I've also heard of people that got hit head on in a car crash... and they were added to the covid death numbers. Also talked to people at my place of business that have tested positive along with their kids, and they said they literally never felt a single symptom at all. So, while I am sure each persons view and experience is different... I just think with all the conflicting information (right or wrong, true or misleading) makes it extremely difficult for everyone to make good decisions. It's the exact same in the UK - our media is crazy, full of scaremongering headlines and our government also fudged the death figures - those who had tested positive for COVID at any point and had died of other things (including as a result of being run over by a car) were listed as COVID death figures. The US isn't alone in that regard, however fact remains that deaths are much lower over here - I live in Scotland where we've had 2 deaths in the last 6 weeks. vanelli56 and WAAAYTOOO 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWaits Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 12 hours ago, JimnKathy said: You'll be able to sail out of Seattle (cue the riot/protest jokes and video clips) to visit Alaska if Canada isn't available. The trip out of Seattle requires a stop at a foreign port (Jones Act), so Victoria is included as a stop on those itineraries. No Canadian port = no Alaska cruises under current regulations. ehw51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNoodles Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 14 hours ago, JimnKathy said: You'll be able to sail out of Seattle (cue the riot/protest jokes and video clips) to visit Alaska if Canada isn't available. Unfortunately not. The Passenger Vessel Service Act requires that a foreign-flagged vessel stop at a foreign port. The only way to do this is to sail on an American vessel. ehw51 and JimnKathy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredhamburg Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said: Unfortunately not. The Passenger Vessel Service Act requires that a foreign-flagged vessel stop at a foreign port. The only way to do this is to sail on an American vessel. Well, Norwegian has one vessel (Pride of America) that is American flagged.......this may work in their favor. I am hoping this law can at least be temporarily changed...... I know this is very little and a long shot, but a person can dream! ehw51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said: Unfortunately not. The Passenger Vessel Service Act requires that a foreign-flagged vessel stop at a foreign port. The only way to do this is to sail on an American vessel. Ship can also touch Ensenada, Mexico which is close the the U.S. border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWaits Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, princevaliantus said: Ship can also touch Ensenada, Mexico which is close the the U.S. border. How does that help with ALASKA sailings from Seattle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said: How does that help with ALASKA sailings from Seattle? Ships that leave the Seattle/San Diego/Los Angeles sailing Northbound can touch Ensenada which will satisfy the Passenger Vessel Service Act requiring that a foreign-flagged vessel stop at a foreign port and continue Northbound and do it Southbound as well. Just a matter of cruise lines finagling the itineraries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee23 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Could there be a scenario where the ship goes to port to satisfy PVSA, but the passengers aren't actually allowed off the boat? Or is the law written specifically to stop that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWaits Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, princevaliantus said: Ships that leave the Seattle/San Diego/Los Angeles sailing Northbound can touch Ensenada which will satisfy the Passenger Vessel Service Act requiring that a foreign-flagged vessel stop at a foreign port and continue Northbound and do it Southbound as well. Just a matter of cruise lines finagling the itineraries. Seattle to Ensenada is 1432 nautical miles. Getting there and back would take six days at 20 knots average speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, HeWhoWaits said: Seattle to Ensenada is 1432 nautical miles. Getting there and back would take six days at 20 knots average speed. That's why "finagling the itineraries" by the cruise lines will be important as they're Northbound cruises to Alaska leaving from San Diego. They can hit Ensenada in a couple of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Regarding the Passenger Vessel Service Act, can a ship just stop at the foreign port for provisioning (fuel/food), but not allow passengers to disembark? Will that fill the square? If so, could that allow Canadian passthrough (if CA is good with it)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNoodles Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 37 minutes ago, crisgold52 said: Aka NCL PRIDE OF AMERICA There are others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Cruiser Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 7 hours ago, HeWhoWaits said: The trip out of Seattle requires a stop at a foreign port (Jones Act), so Victoria is included as a stop on those itineraries. No Canadian port = no Alaska cruises under current regulations. I'm thinking... couldn't the cruise lines ask whichever authority implements the Jones Act to suspend/waive it while in the midst of the pandemic. What is the act for anyway? (I looked it up last year but I did not fully understand it. I was planning to join the Ovation cruise in Ketchikan or Juneau but I was told that I had to disembark in Victoria. What's all the foreign port/local port regulation all about?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantix2000 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said: I'm thinking... couldn't the cruise lines ask whichever authority implements the Jones Act to suspend/waive it while in the midst of the pandemic. What is the act for anyway? (I looked it up last year but I did not fully understand it. I was planning to join the Ovation cruise in Ketchikan or Juneau but I was told that I had to disembark in Victoria. What's all the foreign port/local port regulation all about?) Since it is federal law, suspending or waiving the Jones Act would require Congress and the President to pass a new law. I don't see that happening anytime soon. My limited understanding is that the Jones Act was (in theory) supposed to protect the interests of American companies by restricting foreign companies from shipping or cruising between US ports. That sounds good. USA! USA! However, if a ship is flagged in the US, it has to follow all US labor laws which means higher expenses so everybody flags their ships elsewhere. So the Jones Act has resulted in there being no American companies involved! Oops! ehw51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted August 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Atlantix2000 said: Since it is federal law, suspending or waiving the Jones Act would require Congress and the President to pass a new law. I don't see that happening anytime soon. My limited understanding is that the Jones Act was (in theory) supposed to protect the interests of American companies by restricting foreign companies from shipping or cruising between US ports. That sounds good. USA! USA! However, if a ship is flagged in the US, it has to follow all US labor laws which means higher expenses so everybody flags their ships elsewhere. So the Jones Act has resulted in there being no American companies involved! Oops! OK guys...you are confusing the Jones Act which restricts the waterborne transportation of goods from one U.S. point to another to vessels that are U.S.-flagged, U.S.-built and at least 75 percent U.S.-owned and crewed with the Passenger Vessel Service Act which No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $200 [now $762] for each passenger so transported and landed. AND both can be waived by Presidential Executive Order which Trump waived the Jones Act for Puerto Rico, easing Hurricane Aid shipments to Puerto Rico in September 2017 for 10 days during Hurricane Maria. A new law is not required. IRMO12HD, cruisellama, Jill and 4 others 3 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 33 minutes ago, princevaliantus said: OK guys...you are confusing the Jones Act which restricts the waterborne transportation of goods from one U.S. point to another to vessels that are U.S.-flagged, U.S.-built and at least 75 percent U.S.-owned and crewed with the Passenger Vessel Service Act which No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $200 [now $762] for each passenger so transported and landed. AND both can be waived by Presidential Executive Order which Trump waived the Jones Act for Puerto Rico, easing Hurricane Aid shipments to Puerto Rico in September 2017 for 10 days during Hurricane Maria. A new law is not required. Thanks for the clarifications. So in theory, a waiver could be granted to lines operating the Alaskan region with relief on having to visit a foreign port such as VBC in the event Canadian law prevents lines from filling the non-US port visit requirement. Would think even Alaska would not want to lose revenue another entire tour season and have an interest in seeing some level of travel from the lower 48. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 hours ago, crisgold52 said: Aka NCL PRIDE OF AMERICA POA is flagged US right - so subject to US labor laws etc. Be interesting to understand the differences in profit margin / passenger of US vs non-US flagged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew72681 Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 7:10 PM, cruisellama said: POA is flagged US right - so subject to US labor laws etc. Be interesting to understand the differences in profit margin / passenger of US vs non-US flagged. Yes, and a large percentage of the crew also has to be US based as well. It dramatically drives up prices. I’m not sure how many people would pay 2-3x for the same Alaskan cruise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisellama Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Andrew72681 said: Yes, and a large percentage of the crew also has to be US based as well. It dramatically drives up prices. I’m not sure how many people would pay 2-3x for the same Alaskan cruise. Wow - didn't realize its that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew72681 Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, cruisellama said: Wow - didn't realize its that much. And the other downside is many Americans in their early to late 20’s wouldn’t much like the long days and few days off. ehw51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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