Jump to content
Royal Caribbean Blog

Recommended Posts

From the AP overnight... I guess this goes to show that this may have been a bit too soon of a startup. Article below...

 

Norwegian cruise line Hurtigruten is halting all its so-called expedition cruises until further notice following an outbreak of Covid-19 on one of its vessels last week, the company said in a statement on Monday.

At least 40 passengers and crew from the MS Roald Amundsen cruise liner have so far tested positive for the coronavirus, public health officials said on Sunday.

______________________

 

Additionally overnight one case confirmed on the sole ship of the Pail Gaugin Line. And AIDA has now cancelled the first half of August citing travel restrictions which goes to show... if cruises resume the next hurdle is to be able to cruise somewhere other than an embarkation port 🙂

Link to post
Share on other sites

Below is the ENTIRE article.  Let's not pick and choose what to copy as it will lead to misinformation which in this case, the cruise line takes full responsibility in their failure and I quote, '"A preliminary evaluation shows a breakdown in several of our internal procedures," Chief Executive Daniel Skjeldam said in a statement.'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24Z0Z7

Link to post
Share on other sites

Devil's in the details. From the Reuters article,  we don't know what kind of passenger and crew boarding mitigation protocols Hurtigruten had in place. It appears that they did not test crew upon arrival then bubble them for 2 weeks and test again before boarding  I believe TUI's Mein Shiff 2 has sailed without incident and we know they had what are believed to be mitigation protocols in place that did something like that.

While the company admitted a breakdown in protocols one has to ask how does that happen when so much is at stake? Anyway, It appears that the thinking among global public health officials is that gathering of large numbers of people in indoor spaces accompanied by mobility within that space presents substantially greater risks for SARS-CoV-2 spread than, say for example, similar outdoor gatherings. Cruise ships are perfect examples of that. This incident appears to predict that even when reasonable mitigation measures are developed and attempts are made to implement them by cruise lines, one break down will produce the Hurtigruten result.

The implications? The CDC is not likely to lift the no-sail-order from US ports any time soon. This kind of outcome just bolsters their position. There have not been reports that I am aware of rumblings within the EU's public health agencies to pull-back on cruise ship sailing authorization that was granted a few weeks ago. I think TUI's Mien Schiff was to sail this week or next. Will the plug get pulled on that sailing?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

Below is the ENTIRE article.  Let's not pick and choose what to copy as it will lead to misinformation which in this case, the cruise line takes full responsibility in their failure and I quote, '"A preliminary evaluation shows a breakdown in several of our internal procedures," Chief Executive Daniel Skjeldam said in a statement.'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24Z0Z7

It's fine for us to understand and acknowledge this. But we know that the media loves to cherry pick, sensationalize and drop Hot Takes without fully assessing a situation. So get ready for more "human Petri dish" comments and the like. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, twangster said:

It doesn't appear that Hurtigruten is a member of CLIA.  It appears they are on their own doing their own thing.   

I don’t think it really matters. As much as I love cruising and miss it, I think this is an example that we need to wait for awhile. I don’t believe we are ready to resume cruising. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the cruise company failed to fully test and isolate crew before beginning to work.

Out of the 41 passengers and crew as stated only 5 out of the 100+ passengers on board have covid, none with serious symptoms.

The other 36 were among crew members who were probably living and working in close quarters.

Compare this to Mien Schiff where proper protocols for staff were introduced to limit crew infection. Been sailing since 24 July without incident.

To be honest the law of averages states that people on ships get sick. My cruise had to turn around last August due to a heartattack. Expecting 100% covid free sailings it unreasonable.

By washing hands, wearing masks, and social distancing on board there is no reason why one sick passenger should in any way infect others.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow congrats 1 successful cruise.  So far we have AIDA, Hurtigen and Ponant all with Covid issues on resumption or attempting to resume.

 

It is a bit of a stretch to say that any measures on a cruise ship will stop 1 person transmitting it to others.  Hasn't worked anywhere else yet. The only way it wont spread on a ship is if it is not there to begin with. Time to be a realist.



 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Morganno said:

So the cruise company failed to fully test and isolate crew before beginning to work.

Out of the 41 passengers and crew as stated only 5 out of the 100+ passengers on board have covid, none with serious symptoms.

The other 36 were among crew members who were probably living and working in close quarters.

Compare this to Mien Schiff where proper protocols for staff were introduced to limit crew infection. Been sailing since 24 July without incident.

To be honest the law of averages states that people on ships get sick. My cruise had to turn around last August due to a heartattack. Expecting 100% covid free sailings it unreasonable.

By washing hands, wearing masks, and social distancing on board there is no reason why one sick passenger should in any way infect others.

 

 

 

Yes the cruise company failed by not isolating crew before the cruise. But obviously we aren’t going to require people to isolate before they travel. It would be nice, but it isn’t going to happen. And saying only 5 of the passengers have serious symptoms may be true, but I’d hate to be one of those passengers.

You are probably right by saying that we shouldn’t expect 100% COVID free sailings. But that’s why unfortunately that many people who are elderly or at high risk should not cruise until there is a vaccine. For everyone else, it’s just about risk tolerance. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bretts173 said:

Wow congrats 1 successful cruise.  So far we have AIDA, Hurtigen and Ponant all with Covid issues on resumption or attempting to resume.

 

It is a bit of a stretch to say that any measures on a cruise ship will stop 1 person transmitting it to others.  Hasn't worked anywhere else yet. The only way it wont spread on a ship is if it is not there to begin with. Time to be a realist.



 

WIth the resumption of personal mobility and in this case with cruising, there are going to be C-19 infections, among others such as E. coli and Norovirus. There will also be other health issues not of an infectious disease nature that cruise ships have to deal with. None of this is new. What is new is COVID.

Everyone of these has the potential for serious illness and even death. I have done this before, not here, but in other forums I participate in, that the relative risk of serious illness and death for COVID is not substantially different than It is for any number of other diseases or, for that matter, operating a motor vehicle, getting struck by lightening or many others. Understanding relative and absolute risk is a hard. Won't attempt it here but I have dealt with this in medical practice when recommending therapies and medical interventions that carry risks themselves for 22 years.  You do the risk/benefit calculation, lay out the facts and recommend courses of action that the patient then chooses based on his or her risk tolerance. Nothing is risk free. 

It is not possible to  reduce the risk of C-19 infection, or any of the others to zero and that seems to be the prevailing wish before most things restart, cruising included. IMO, officials involved in decision making on what things open and what things don't during the pandemic are the ones not being "realistic." I will allow that the risk/cost/benefit calculation is hard and that is mostly because the risk side of the calculation involving COVID is still not well known. That should beget precaution.

But the cost side of the calculation is strikingly obvious. In my mind then, taking mitigation measures at any level has to produce an equally striking benefit to the public health. Since the peak of the pandemic in March/April and especially now, I am not aware of data that supports that the economic and social costs of shuttering are exceeded by significant public health benefits. That includes lock-downs such as those that brutally occured in China and the ones going down in Melbourne as we speak.   

Sure, there is community spread in the US and globally and sensible mitigation measures are helping to manage it. But at this time, the disease burden imposed individually and on affected health care systems where community spread is present, are not overwhelming and that is despite what the media would have you believe.

I want to be safe if I cruise during the pandemic. I want everyone to be safe but I also want, selfishly perhaps, the cruise industry to survive in much the same form as we have enjoyed it for the last two decades. That wish is being threatened by unrealistic expectations that could crush the cruise lines and result in a major reorganizing of them - that with fewer but large ships, less services and higher prices. 

For the most part, the global view among officials making start/don't start decisions on cruise line operations is that for cruising to restart there has to be an unobtainable no risk scenario or very little risk. The goal is that a restart won't precipitate the unfortunate circumstances that occured in March and April. These included nearly simultaneous outbreaks on 100s of cruise ships, stranded passengers and crew, ports denying entry, chaos in those ports who allowed cruise ships with infected crew and passenger to arrive, tie up and debark when local capacity to deal with that situation was lacking.

My take is that it won't happen, at least not on the chaotic level it did happen in March/April, trickling into the summer with crew still stranded. Too many lessons learned and too much has been done in the aftermath of all that to prevent it best case or to manage it better worst case. Let's go cruising but do it safely and sensibly. YMMV.

Link to post
Share on other sites

100% agree with JeffB.

What has been already successfully shown with Germany is if you have the correct protocols in place you can reduce the spread and chance of infection significantly.

With the protocols it would be very unlikely to see a wide spread contamination of the virus on a short cruise.

The only way that would happen is if a person who showed no symptoms refused to wash their hands wear a mask or social distance.

Or a crew member afraid of loss of wages/tips  continued to work whilst experiencing symptoms but there again we are talking about company protocols which should apply to staff as well as passengers. 

My only small fear would be actual process of boarding, from what I've seen of the German cruises they still haven't managed to make this a totally smooth process (many people crowded into the terminal building with excessive wait times.) 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...