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Mein Shiff 2 at Sea!


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Let's hope this will be us soon. I'll go on a scenic cruise. Anybody else?  @Matt, do I hear a group cruise if this becomes an option from U.S. ports? BTW, RCCL has stake in TUI.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23286-1-200-passengers-are-back-on-a-cruise-ship.html?fbclid=IwAR0SbcIupla0YMN35bBzrYsWS7HtGHs8YQ98VICGc9JQ8BF1scvtHrFuqlY

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2 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Not starting well. 10 out of 750 crew tested positive after testing negative leaving their country.

 

http://crew-center.com/10-crew-members-aida-cruises-test-positive-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0N94ctuFDGqHYClnXNMz5_3D2Z9GZOIpDmHaQaEW2LtWV8V2tjBoPzfDk

I wonder if the same test was used in the home country as was used in Germany. 
 

We all know the testing can be suspect. That’s an issue. 

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3 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Not starting well. 10 out of 750 crew tested positive after testing negative leaving their country.

 

http://crew-center.com/10-crew-members-aida-cruises-test-positive-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0N94ctuFDGqHYClnXNMz5_3D2Z9GZOIpDmHaQaEW2LtWV8V2tjBoPzfDk

Just for clarification, I don't believe this is the same cruise that @SpeedNoodles was referencing. Unfortunate, nonetheless.

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There has been discussion on this board about the cruise ship being the itinerary versus the actual itinerary ports. I'm all for one of the newer ships being the itinerary with a reduced price drink package and reduced price unlimited dining package. Fun, fun, fun 'til the CDC takes the cruising awaaay! :3_grin:

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17 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Dipping their nautical toes into the water:

The article mentioned the reduced capacity, but did not mention if the passenger target was met.

Did it sail with the intended number of guests? I’m very curious as to it being “fully” sold... which would be a good indicator of there being enough demand for “blue” cruises at this time.

 

5 hours ago, bretts173 said:

Not starting well. 10 out of 750 crew tested positive after testing negative leaving their country.

Here’s the crux of the problem: 
Crew members are determined to not be infected when they leave home. Assuming testing is done 24hrs or slightly more before departure, a journey is traveled with multiple legs & points of exposure on the way (domestic + international, front door to port.) The virus infects on the way, with an incubation period of 2-3+ days (minimum), then there’s an eventual positive test once the virus load becomes detectable. By this time, that person has already been infectious themselves for at least a couple of days.

The virus can be brought onboard the ship by crew (or passengers) before it can be detected with pre-travel testing, or a simple set of screening questions and a temperature check during embarkation. Arriving crew members can, and will be, quarantined & tested on embarkation, but what about the passengers??

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1 hour ago, GrandmaAirplane said:

The virus can be brought onboard the ship by crew (or passengers) before it can be detected with pre-travel testing, or a simple set of screening questions and a temperature check during embarkation. Arriving crew members can, and will be, quarantined & tested on embarkation, but what about the passengers??

This is where mask wearing becomes critical. I would expect that all crew, during their travels and after boarding, are required to wear masks at all times when not in their cabins. I'd also expect the crew / staff mess to be run at reduced max capacity, serving mostly grab-and-go meals to bring back to their cabins, at least for the first couple of weeks they're on board.

Since it's shown that spread from an infected to uninfected person is less than 1% chance if both are wearing masks, this nearly eliminates the risk of ship-wide spread among the staff. Meanwhile, they get tested daily using rapid-response tests, so infected crew can quickly be isolated and contact tracing done. Assuming all crew are brought on board at least 2 weeks ahead of first sailing, that's enough time to ensure the crew is fully cleared for work. Any who get sick after they first board can be disembarked and transferred to another ship when they recover.

I don't know how realistically this part could be done, given that many areas still lack enough tests for the local populations. And a good part of the ship's storage is going to be taken up with masks for the crew to change out daily. But if cruising is going to resume during this time, that's just the bare bones of what has to be done before passenger 1 gets on board, IMO.

For passengers, the airlines have now (finally) set the precedent; Delta and American have both now openly stated that if someone refuses to wear a mask the entire time they're on board, they're not allowed to fly and will be black-listed from flights on that airline until the pandemic is cleared. More airlines will follow suit, and that gives the cruise lines all the justification they need to say the same. Obviously with some modifications -- masks can be taken off while in their cabin, after sitting down at their table to eat (with all tables spaced at least 7 or 8 feet apart to allow for unobstructed movement), and a few other public spaces like the pool or Solarium. But the theater should IMO require masks the whole time, being an enclosed space with air conditioning where you sit for at least 45 minutes (up to 2 hours for a Broadway show). Some other areas may require the same. If any passenger doesn't want to do that, they don't get to board; and if they're found in violation after embarkation, they get confined to quarters and disembarked at the next port. True zero-tolerance policy.

Sorry, but that's the only way I can even begin to see this having any chance of coming through without another PR disaster for the cruise lines and a permanent shutdown of cruising until a vaccine is delivered and at least 80% of the world's population has been given it.

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1 minute ago, Jill said:

For those on Facebook, here’s a first hand account on what it’s like along with pics. For those not on Facebook, I’ll post text here. 
 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RoyalCaribbeanCrownAnchor/?ref=share

The new hygienic concept is working. But only because ship is on half capacity. Chairs at the pool are two meters apart and buffet restaurant is open but no self service. Silver is sealed for single use. You can’t even grab a coffee by yourself. Everything takes a lot more time. But at least back on a cruise ship. Mein Schiff 2 sealing from Hamburg in the North Sea with no stop. It’s TUI Cruises which belongs to 50% to Royal. So hopefully Miami is watching.

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4 minutes ago, Jill said:

The new hygienic concept is working. But only because ship is on half capacity. Chairs at the pool are two meters apart and buffet restaurant is open but no self service. Silver is sealed for single use. You can’t even grab a coffee by yourself. Everything takes a lot more time. But at least back on a cruise ship. Mein Schiff 2 sealing from Hamburg in the North Sea with no stop. It’s TUI Cruises which belongs to 50% to Royal. So hopefully Miami is watching.

**masks in elevators and hallways

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BC4D8FE2-DA8C-49E1-A092-26AF82BA8F08.jpeg

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19 hours ago, JLMoran said:

........................Sorry, but that's the only way I can even begin to see this having any chance of coming through without another PR disaster for the cruise lines and a permanent shutdown of cruising until a vaccine is delivered and at least 80% of the world's population has been given it.

Thanks for this insight, JLMorgan and thanks Crisgold52 for directing me here after my post today in the other thread.

I wonder, as others here have, what the actual demand for a cabin on these early cruises in Germany is. I also wonder how TUI is handling crew that might justifiably refuse to return to work - an issue that happens often in the US. As well, what are the profit margins, if any, for each TUI sailing? I do think that TUI will purposely operate a cruise at a loss in order to test and demonstrate effective protocols, at least at first. 

If I'm reading the available information correctly, the concept of creating a ship board "bubble," modified of course to fit shipboard circumstances, with all the implications for doing that is at play here. So, this is probably the model going forward. Again, I question demand for such cruises with these strict mitigation protocols in place.

I'll go!? 

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On 7/25/2020 at 5:32 AM, bretts173 said:

Not starting well. 10 out of 750 crew tested positive after testing negative leaving their country.

 

http://crew-center.com/10-crew-members-aida-cruises-test-positive-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0N94ctuFDGqHYClnXNMz5_3D2Z9GZOIpDmHaQaEW2LtWV8V2tjBoPzfDk

Have they commented on the big question?  What if someone(s) tests positive?  Will the ship be quarantined at sea?  Or maybe it's different for the TUI ship, but overall, that will be a factor when Royal starts up again and how they handle it.

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On 7/25/2020 at 3:32 AM, bretts173 said:

Not starting well. 10 out of 750 crew tested positive after testing negative leaving their country.

http://crew-center.com/10-crew-members-aida-cruises-test-positive-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0N94ctuFDGqHYClnXNMz5_3D2Z9GZOIpDmHaQaEW2LtWV8V2tjBoPzfDk

What does Aida have to do with TUI?  Completely different ship and cruise line.  

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4 minutes ago, WannaCruise said:

Have they commented on the big question?  What if someone(s) tests positive?  Will the ship be quarantined at sea?  Or maybe it's different for the TUI ship, but overall, that will be a factor when Royal starts up again and how they handle it.

We have every reason to believe that TUI submitted protocols to address this situation for approval to public health bodies within Germany before Mein Schiff 2 sailed. Although it wasn't entirely disclosed in the TUI press release, that crew who tested + at the TUI pre-boarding screening were denied boarding and quarantined on another ship, suggests that this is the protocol that may be observed here in the US ...... IOW, there's another ship, not yet sailing with passengers, designated to receive and quarantine crew at the same port as the sailing vessel. At start-up there would appear to be plenty of vessels to do that. I could also see embarking passengers who test + via a similar embarkation protocol as TUI's being quarantined on the same ship as crew members and managed accordingly - 10 to 14d, negative tests before release from quarantine.   

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2 hours ago, JeffB said:

Although it wasn't entirely disclosed in the TUI press release, that crew who tested + at the TUI pre-boarding screening were denied boarding and quarantined on another ship

Where do you get your information that TUI crew members tested positive? I think that you are confusing news articles (I've been wrong before, though).

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Quote

Where do you get your information that TUI crew members tested positive? I think that you are confusing news articles (I've been wrong before, though).

Let me clarify ....... the 10 crew members who tested + were not on TUI's Mein Schiff 2 but rather AIDAmar and AIDAblu (Another German Company affiliated with Carnival) with planned sailings out of Rostok Germany in August. In the case of AIDA's ship, they are assembling crews for the August sailing. The 10 crew who tested + were quarantined on another unnamed ship. The important point is that what we're probably seeing here is Carnival's (AIDA) and RCL's (Mein Schiff) COVID mitigation strategies. I'd expect if and when cruising resumes for RCL and it's brands from US ports, COVID mitigation measures aboard those ships will be similar if not identical to the two German brands.

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1 hour ago, crisgold52 said:

Another one to watch is Explorer Dream Out of Taiwan which by far has a way better handle of cases even than the EU.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23287-cruising-is-back-in-asia-as-explorer-dream-sailings-first-voyage-from-taiwan.html

 

Looks like their protocols are similar to TUI. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.prestigeonline.com/th/pursuits/motors/dream-cruises-health-safety-standards/amp/

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57 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Let me clarify ....... the 10 crew members who tested + were not on TUI's Mein Schiff 2 but rather AIDAmar and AIDAblu (Another German Company affiliated with Carnival) with planned sailings out of Rostok Germany in August. In the case of AIDA's ship, they are assembling crews for the August sailing. The 10 crew who tested + were quarantined on another unnamed ship. The important point is that what we're probably seeing here is Carnival's (AIDA) and RCL's (Mein Schiff) COVID mitigation strategies. I'd expect if and when cruising resumes for RCL and it's brands from US ports, COVID mitigation measures aboard those ships will be similar if not identical to the two German brands.

But doesn't this mean the protocol is working well. They were tested twice and isolated. This is good news.

As a matter of course in Belgium we can now get a test certificate 48 hours before travelling. I am optimistic about future cruising, didn't the CEO of RCI post that on the bigger ships they could still turn a profit with 30% capacity?

 

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Oh, I think this is definitely good news and an AIDA spokesperson said so in a quote. The thing is that here in the US we are trying to wage an unwinnable battle v. SARS-CoV-2 by mitigating the virus back to levels where lockdowns had R(t), or any other measures you might choose, to mid-April levels. I don't think that is going to happen with a return to nation wide lockdwons and, as I have said, there is no political appetite to do that. I also don't support that course of action as it will crater an already severely weakened US economy.  

The sensible alternative, IMO, is managing not trying to control the virus until a vaccine is introduced that does control it. Short term you keep CFR/IFR at politically acceptable levels with better medical management of hospitalized patients with C-19 and appropriate administration of emerging pharmaceuticals. Work to bring new case #s and positivity rates down with EO mandated local and targeted mitigation measures.

Here's the problem, though. The two German and the one Taiwanese cruise lines are setting precedent in the context of their country's COVID circumstance. Both Germany and Taiwan drove R(t) values to well below one (virus is receding) before ending lock downs. Here in the US, we are saddled with a poor federal response that produced a patch-work approach to every type  of responsible public health measure to reduce the spread of the virus. Then we compounded those failures by patch-work reopenings that had some regions doing that with the virus still spreading. As soon as mobility resumed, areas previously free of the virus saw it get seeded by travelers coming from areas where spread was still happening. Testing and tracking has also been poorly funded and executed and varies state by state.

The US and it's citizens have become a COVID pariah to countries that were better prepared and mounted more effective responses to SARS-CoV-2. I can't see how the CDC, given their current positions, both politically and on the basis of the science on this, are going to allow cruising to resume from US ports with the states, acting independently and with a lot of variance, "managing" instead of controlling the virus. The CDC has at it's disposal evidence that countries can control the spread of the virus and their transportation and PH ministers have rewarded the travel and leisure industries resident in those countries by allowing sectors like the cruise industry to resume operations.  I don't see that happening in the US until we get a vaccine that works, is distributed at scale and is proven to reduce case #s, growth rates and deaths. April 2021? That may even be a stretch.   

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A lot is riding on these early cruises.  If they can pull off a few without issue it will speak volumes to the world.  Inevitably there will be a case so we'll have to see how it plays out in the media.  Cruise ships didn't create CV-19 nor are they immune anymore than a land based movie theater, wedding, political convention, etc. yet a single case from an early cruise will garner attention that hundreds of cases from a rally or wedding wouldn't.  

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2 weeks ago I was optimistic about a return to cruising. Today, and after seeing the CDC's check list, and make no mistake, that's what it is, for the cruise industry wishing to operate from US ports, I am much less so. The demands for safety, assumptions of costs associated with obtaining near zero risk of infection, are unprecedented. I've never seen anything like it yet, they have the keys to the car and won't give them up until every demand they choose to make gets a check in the box. I think it is terribly unfair. That is because I believe that officials over-seeing the operation of cruise ships from US ports want the unobtainable  and that is zero risk of a single C-19 infection on a cruise ship. Meanwhile managing those risks, managing C-19 infections should they occur onboard are entirely obtainable.

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11 minutes ago, JeffB said:

2 weeks ago I was optimistic about a return to cruising. Today, and after seeing the CDC's check list, and make no mistake, that's what it is, for the cruise industry wishing to operate from US ports, I am much less so. The demands for safety, assumptions of costs associated with obtaining near zero risk of infection, are unprecedented. I've never seen anything like it yet, they have the keys to the car and won't give them up until every demand they choose to make gets a check in the box. I think it is terribly unfair. That is because I believe that officials over-seeing the operation of cruise ships from US ports want the unobtainable  and that is zero risk of a single C-19 infection on a cruise ship. Meanwhile managing those risks, managing C-19 infections should they occur onboard are entirely obtainable.

I started looking at the questions from Matt's blog but they were so overwhelming and gave up half way into it. To ask the general public such questions that the executives need to answer (glad Royal & NCL have teamed up with the panel) is crazy. I thought they were just curious what we (the public) thought.

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I think the CDC's call for public comment is almost entirely political. I believe there is friction between CDC officials and Cruise line execs with the execs rightfully accusing the CDC of being unrealistic in their demands for what amount to a zero risk of having a passenger or crew member embarked on a cruise ship contract C-19. Instead of managing risks - which the cruise lines can do and have done in the past - the CDC is demanding perfect control of it and unprecedented levels of cross-coordination with foreign ports that a more friendly CDC could facilitate. Manage, not control would be by-words that the CDC could adopt.   

Instead, the CDC takes their "crazy" set of questions (and I believe it's a check list of CDC demands) so the public will agree with them that cruising is dangerous to the public health unless the cruise lines obtain this unobtainable zero risk.  There is the capacity of the Executive to order the Department of Homeland Security - the agency that actually issued the no-sail-order on the advice of the CDC - to revoke it. That isn't likely to happen for purely political reasons. The public, not knowing what we know about how safe crising actually is, would howell.  

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Just to clarify again - crew tested positive was for AIDA ships, not TUI. These cruises to nowhere are now starting for 3 German cruise lines: TUI  Cruises (50% Royal Caribbean, 50% TUI), AIDA Cruises (belongs to Carnival) and Hapag Lloyd  Kreuzfahrten (German luxury cruise line, owned 100% by TUI). Safety measures should be quite similar on all 3 lines as they were negotiated by the German branch of CLIA.

Looking forward to a conclusion video by one of my favourite Youtubers - he's on Mein Schiff 2's first cruise. The video is scheduled for tomorrow, 8.30 pm (CEST). I'll report back anything interesting.

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For the Diamond Princess my understanding was that less than 10 people were positive when it docked and if they had let everyone disembark or invoked proper quarantine measures the infection rate would have been 90% lower. 

However the final stats for the Diamond princess were eye opening

 

26 February  705 positive cases which includes 392 asymptomatic cases So nearly 55% of the cases had no symptoms. 

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59 minutes ago, Morganno said:

For the Diamond Princess my understanding was that less than 10 people were positive when it docked and if they had let everyone disembark or invoked proper quarantine measures the infection rate would have been 90% lower. 

However the final stats for the Diamond princess were eye opening

 

26 February  705 positive cases which includes 392 asymptomatic cases So nearly 55% of the cases had no symptoms. 

Winner winner chicken dinner! The cruise catastrophe could have been avoided by disembarking ASAP. In hindsight it is now well known the weeks of quarantine in the ship did not yield positive results. It actually made the situation 100 times worse. 

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