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CDC Wants Our Feedback


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The CDC is wanting our feedback about what we think should happen. Personally, I think this means two things.

1) They are truly wanting a solution to get things moving. They are under a lot of pressure to get the cruise lines up and running.

2) They don't have a CLUE about what steps the companies take to clean on a regular basis nor do they have a clue as to what to do.

This means that the Blue Ribbon Panel was a wonderful idea on the part of RCL and NCL. They will be able to give the CDC much of the answers that they are looking for. Many (not all) of the people that will be commenting to the CDC will be normal people who have no medical experience. They will just be going by what they have heard or seen on the media, no matter which they listen to. This is all well and good, but I trust that they will take into consideration that most of us are just concerned people and not doctors or nurses. I hope they truly listen to the BRP and utilize their suggestions that way people can get moving again. Sitting in our homes and not being a part of society isn't good for a person either. If it was then my FIL wouldn't be in the shape he is in.

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Reading the post on the blog by @Matt (basically a list of things they want our input on) felt like they were saying "this is why we havent allowed cruising." But some of the questions were just ridiculous: "a. Should cruise ship operators deny boarding to passengers with COVID-like illness or confirmed infection with COVID-19?" uhh.....ya think?!?!?!

I think asking questions in that list to Joe and Jane Doe is begging for ridiculous answers.  Youre going to have a large portion of people saying "nothing can be done....cancel cruising forever" and youre going to have a large portion saying "nothing can be done....just let me on the ship" and theyre going to have to sift through to get REAL information????  Feels like they just threw out something to say "see......we care........" Im not buying it.  If they CARED theyd work with people that have the knowledge to actually answer these questions (looking at you, Blue Ribbon Panel)....not Steve in South Carolina that punches keys on a computer all day. 

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I'm excited about the positive implications here. I am concerned that this is a truly non-scientific poll.  It would be ideal if they could limit responses to those who have cruise experience and, at the very least, reduce the weighting for those who have strong opinions but have no idea why. Many rebels without a clue out there! ??

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3 minutes ago, Ogilthorpe said:

I am concerned that this is a truly non-scientific poll.  

Thats exactly my point. Im sure there is some good that can be pulled from it.....but good LORD would you want to have to be the one to sift through it all to get that good? Its like a twitter poll.....keyboard warriors and jokers mucking up the results. Why would you subject yourself to that if you REALLY want answers? Id ask doctors, epidemiologists, people in the cruise industry with knowledge of how lines actually operate, people in logistics even.....then people that actually cruise.....not people that never have, or ever will. And definitely not just anyone on the internet! 

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Asking for public comment is just one part of the administrative process...just a box CDC has to check.  They know how to log and then ignore comments from people who don't know what they're talking about.  They'll only really consider and address comments from people who might provide meaningful input.

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4 minutes ago, danv3 said:

Asking for public comment is just one part of the administrative process...just a box CDC has to check. 

Now, THAT makes some sense. And goes back to my point of, they dont really CARE what the public thinks.....lol. Makes sense that a govt. department has to feign interest in the public input before taking action. 

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I fairly certain that the CDC doesn't want to hear MY opinions on anything. Whatever I would write to them would have way too much ranting and obscenities! ?

On a serious note, I really hope that not too many submissions come from the "anti-cruise" crowd.

I'm sure you know the type. The people that always NEED to comment "This is why I would never go on a cruise" whenever a negative story about a cruise pops up.

 

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In my opinion this is just a stalling tactic! Be seen to be doing something but all you are in fact doing is dragging it out longer. 

So many questions that i didnt even read them from no2 onwards, by the time they get results in then analyse all the results create charts and graphs im even worried my march cruise isnt going to go ahead ? 

Honestly im away to cancel my flights to new york for march while i still can. 

Been told that Aida Crew heading back to ships have been told NOT to renew US visa! 

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10 minutes ago, Ray said:

In my opinion this is just a stalling tactic!

Been told that Aida Crew heading back to ships have been told NOT to renew US visa! 

Here in the US it's probably more of a CYA tactic.  Harder to claim they are doing nothing when they can counter they are considering all input from all sources.  

Renewing US VISA is difficult at best with processing times as they are.  It might be more of a "do not bother trying" suggestion rather than an explicit "do not".  

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3 hours ago, Mrs. Thomas said:

The CDC is wanting our feedback about what we think should happen. Personally, I think this means two things.

1) They are truly wanting a solution to get things moving. They are under a lot of pressure to get the cruise lines up and running.

2) They don't have a CLUE about what steps the companies take to clean on a regular basis nor do they have a clue as to what to do.

This means that the Blue Ribbon Panel was a wonderful idea on the part of RCL and NCL. They will be able to give the CDC much of the answers that they are looking for. Many (not all) of the people that will be commenting to the CDC will be normal people who have no medical experience. They will just be going by what they have heard or seen on the media, no matter which they listen to. This is all well and good, but I trust that they will take into consideration that most of us are just concerned people and not doctors or nurses. I hope they truly listen to the BRP and utilize their suggestions that way people can get moving again. Sitting in our homes and not being a part of society isn't good for a person either. If it was then my FIL wouldn't be in the shape he is in.

Very interesting list of questions.   Answering all the questions gives you the "plan".    They even give you a hint on the sections of the plan:  

a. Embarkation and disembarkation?

b. Safety drills and trainings?
c. Dining?
d. Onboard entertainment events?

e. Shore excursions?

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8 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Renewing US VISA is difficult at best with processing times as they are.  It might be more of a "do not bother trying" suggestion rather than an explicit "do not".  

Cant comment on that as we brits without drugs or terrorism charges dont need a visa lol  ? 

 

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2 hours ago, SteveinSC said:

Reading the post on the blog by @Matt (basically a list of things they want our input on) felt like they were saying "this is why we havent allowed cruising." But some of the questions were just ridiculous: "a. Should cruise ship operators deny boarding to passengers with COVID-like illness or confirmed infection with COVID-19?" uhh.....ya think?!?!?!

I think asking questions in that list to Joe and Jane Doe is begging for ridiculous answers.  Youre going to have a large portion of people saying "nothing can be done....cancel cruising forever" and youre going to have a large portion saying "nothing can be done....just let me on the ship" and theyre going to have to sift through to get REAL information????  Feels like they just threw out something to say "see......we care........" Im not buying it.  If they CARED theyd work with people that have the knowledge to actually answer these questions (looking at you, Blue Ribbon Panel)....not Steve in South Carolina that punches keys on a computer all day. 

This is a pretty standard USG RFI format.     Long list of questions - the lines have to build a story and rationale for each one.    Its a lot of work.   At the working level all those cruise directors will all have to recreate their entertainment programs with the output of that RFI in mind..

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 This and others like this I find frustrating..

What precautions should the cruise line industry take to safely disembark passengers and crew without transmitting COVID-19 into local seaport communities?

A counter question.. what are the airlines doing to safely disembark passengers and crew without transmitting COVID-19 into local airport communities?

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A questions raised in this..  when someone has been identified as having covid. A ship returns docks as normal.. What happens next?

For normal land based issues, you are just sent home and told to isolate. Since you would not be allowed to fly, I guess the options are self isolate in local hotel, or rent a vehicle and drive home?  ie, it becomes the passengers responsibility not the cruise company?

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2 hours ago, Scrumps said:

Interesting to see someone take the time to respond in the negative..

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=CDC-2020-0087-0002

Wow, obviously the person who wrote this is not a cruise fan at all. Must have missed the ship in port and/or spent some time in the brig.

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9 minutes ago, USFFrank said:

Wow, obviously the person who wrote this is not a cruise fan at all. Must have missed the ship in port and/or spent some time in the brig.

Unfortunately, typical in the world of online reviews. So many opinions without any real experience. It is consistent, sadly, with negative hotel reviews from those who admit they didn't stay there or negative restaurant reviews from those who couldn't secure a reservation. ?

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8 hours ago, crisgold52 said:

Thought I'd point out a common every day thing outside of cruising. The common thing here being MOVIES. Has anyone noticed how there's no blockbusters coming out this summer? They've been pushed back mostly to 2021 with a select few by the week of Christmas? It shows how movie theatres can't have a crowd either so it makes no sense to release movies this summer or even into early fall. Unprecedented. How this ties into cruising? Well I think its the assembly in one space for a few hours factor.

Not 100% accurate. The movie Greyhound was shopped out to streaming services once it became clear that it just couldn't be shown in theaters. Was intended to be a Father's Day release and ended up bought by Apple for their TV+ streaming service. Huge blockbuster for the service that's driven a large number of new subscribers. Similar story with the latest Disney/Pixar movie (Onward?), which went straight to streaming on Disney+ and likewise drew a good number of subscribers.

Other movies have similarly been shopped out and either already shown on streaming, or coming soon. The movie studios know that people still want to see their summer blockbusters, and are adapting as best they can to the circumstances.

Definitely a lot easier than getting cruising to resume, that's for sure. ?

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56 minutes ago, bobroo said:

I would be very cautious about the CDC having an opinion poll of Americans what a reopening of cruising should look like; long time cruisers may not get the results they are expecting.

It is why all cruisers should take the time to submit a response.  You don't have to answer all the questions, just submit a statement.

I can't imagine too many people who want to stop cruising taking the time to find and then respond. 1 out of 22 approved entries so far.

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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 1:46 PM, SPS said:

I fairly certain that the CDC doesn't want to hear MY opinions on anything. Whatever I would write to them would have way too much ranting and obscenities! ?

On a serious note, I really hope that not too many submissions come from the "anti-cruise" crowd.

I'm sure you know the type. The people that always NEED to comment "This is why I would never go on a cruise" whenever a negative story about a cruise pops up.

 

Those are the "cruise ships are petri dishes" people. Because of whatever reason, they are against cruising (from germs to jealousy) and don't think others should go either. I hope the opinions from those people are fully ignored.

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16 hours ago, Scrumps said:

Interesting to see someone take the time to respond in the negative..

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=CDC-2020-0087-0002

You can tell by the last paragraph of their post that they have never cruised and where they stand on it.

"Part of capitalism is that some industries and companies don't make it and other innovations and businesses rise up in their place. That may just be the fate of the cruise industry as well, and for the poor treatment they have notoriously shown to their crew and the environment, I'd say it was about time!Think of all of the human rights atrocities that you will save from occurring if you continue to block their cruel industry."

They obviously have a strong opinion and would enjoy the fact of the cruise industry going under all together. I wonder what happened to make them hate it so much. Opinions like those should be taken with more than a grain of salt. They truly have no idea of the different policies the cruise lines take to ensure the safety of the environment and those on board. Their suggestions made it sound more like a stay jail than a vacation.

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On 7/26/2020 at 6:16 PM, Scrumps said:

Interesting to see someone take the time to respond in the negative..

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=CDC-2020-0087-0002

Exactly the kind of response that will be read once and logged (because they legally have to) and then completely ignored.  

The CDC doesn't want this guy's opinion, or yours or mine.  They're asking because they're required to.  The kinds of responses they'll actually consider will be 10+ pages long and will present data and realistic solutions.  Random internet submissions?  They may read a few of them for laughs.  

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14 hours ago, cruisellama said:

I wonder if the author ever cruised or just dislikes the industry .

I highly doubt they ever cruised. It sounds like one of those people who have gotten caught up in an extreme environmental conservation group that doesn't really do it's research. They watch all the negative things but never the positive. Sounds like their glass is never half empty, just empty without looking at the glass. If they would just do the research and learn to truly love the nature around them, they would be much happier and could enjoy life.

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Seems like a never cruiser, they come out of the walls after any cruise related problem. Norovirus, fatalities etc. the writers last sentence says it all. ¨Human rights atrocities, block their cruel industries¨ This doesn´t  seem to be about the virus, but about the cruise industry as a whole

If you follow their logic, buffets should be gone, no main dining rooms, eat in your cabins. What makes this different than, an all inclusive resort? Oh yeah CDC has no governance over Sandals etc.  They sure aren´t trying to shut down any hotels or casinos. I wonder how this person feels about reopening of schools and the safety measures that should be in place. Lastly, if they expect to wait till a vaccine is proven we are in for a long wait.

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Like it or not there is a lot of evidence the current CDC position on cruising is the right thing to do at this time.

MLB tried playing games with a lot of protocols in place, no fans present and masks required for all non-player positions yet we are starting to see outbreaks among MLB personnel.  Between the two teams, the TV crew and the stadium crew there are probably something like 200-300 people present in a very large stadium.  If they can't do that without an outbreak how on earth is a cruise ship supposed to avoid an outbreak?

If there is one valid purpose for those areas in the US that are pushing the limits and reopening a lot it's that the world can learn from it.  If any country or region tried to do the same they'd face the same results - more cases and more death.  

The good news is the death rate isn't climbing like it did with the March case count spike, at least not yet.  If we can learn how to keep the death rate down while the case count is high that's a good thing.  

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I agree completely with you@twangster we need to learn from the progress and the mistakes that are being made. My point was with the comment that was posted to the CDC. That person seems to have an axe to grind with the cruise industry as a whole. I think the CDC listening is a good thing, I just hope they listen to the panel that RCG put together and they come up with the best program for us.

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From watching some of the MLB games I can see the reason why COVID is happening. A major rule was no spitting, I watched three games, and saw quite a few players spitting like crazy. If we don't follow the basic rules we are doomed to fail.

I don't think the CDC has been wrong in not allowing cruising to commence because more and more I can see the failures of not complying. While I think whomever wrote the negative response never has been on a cruise; their mindset is of the majority of Americans. Everyone loves to follow the perception of something, not the truth of something.

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I believe non-compliance with the various mitigation measures is not as wide-spread as the media paints the picture that it is. Geometric progression in the context or relaxing mobility restrictions is the primary factor in the recent surge in new cases. Generally, you can have mobility and the proximity that produces without surge consequence if your starting point is 1:1 or less, i.e., locations that drove the various measures of viral spread to 1 or less are less susceptible to high growth rates than a location that only brough that number to, say, 3.  Caveat as has been pointed out even with 1:1 if that one is an isolated "super spreader" that's a problem not associated with geometric progression. 

I read some recent polling data that reported upwards of 80% of Americans report they wear a mask and practice social distancing all of the time indoors and some of the time out doors. There are, of course, exceptions. These receive extensive media coverage with photos and videos of bad actors. Experts in this sort of thing say that 75% compliance with masking and distancing is enough to produce a decrease in viral spread in a locale that achieves that goal.

I think the recent downward trends in the S and SW states and CA in every useful measure of viral spread and disease burden, when viewed in the proper context, is an indication that the message is getting out.

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 2:28 PM, crisgold52 said:

When you have 750 cases in Washington state in a day vs 28 in the entire province of BC this speaks volumes.

Those cases are not surprising when you see what is going on in Washington state. That is not something that I would be using as a measuring stick. The rest of the country isn't having the same things going on. There's been a rise in cases in Oregon and Minnesota which doesn't surprise me either, as they are having the same situations in large cities. BC has less per square mile than just about every state in the US. That makes a difference.

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On 7/28/2020 at 3:26 PM, twangster said:

Like it or not there is a lot of evidence the current CDC position on cruising is the right thing to do at this time.

MLB tried playing games with a lot of protocols in place, no fans present and masks required for all non-player positions yet we are starting to see outbreaks among MLB personnel.  Between the two teams, the TV crew and the stadium crew there are probably something like 200-300 people present in a very large stadium.  If they can't do that without an outbreak how on earth is a cruise ship supposed to avoid an outbreak?

If there is one valid purpose for those areas in the US that are pushing the limits and reopening a lot it's that the world can learn from it.  If any country or region tried to do the same they'd face the same results - more cases and more death.  

The good news is the death rate isn't climbing like it did with the March case count spike, at least not yet.  If we can learn how to keep the death rate down while the case count is high that's a good thing.  

And it turned out that the Marlin players went out to the bars and got infected.  They played a game against the Phillies with tons of infected Marlins and not a single Phillies' player tested positive.  Now, that being said, I am sure that whatever protocols the cruise lines have might not be followed by all, but the MLB players didn't follow their protocols.  The stadium wasn't the vector of spread.

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On 7/26/2020 at 1:52 PM, Scrumps said:

 This and others like this I find frustrating..

What precautions should the cruise line industry take to safely disembark passengers and crew without transmitting COVID-19 into local seaport communities?

A counter question.. what are the airlines doing to safely disembark passengers and crew without transmitting COVID-19 into local airport communities?

Bingo

 

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