EU guidelines for return to cruising

[FionaMG]

Somebody just posted this link over on CC.

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

It's a bit long-winded but then anything and everything that comes from the EU is.

[Mike.s]

42 minutes ago, FionaMG said:

Somebody just posted this link over on CC.

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

It's a bit long-winded but then anything and everything that comes from the EU is.

At least it gives the cruise lines some direction of what's expected of them to allow them to cruise, better than just being told you can't sail

[Marlena]

It's taking away some hope for us going on our dec sailing.

[DublinFC]

1 hour ago, Marlena said:

It's taking away some hope for us going on our dec sailing.

I will be surprised if we sail in Dec too.  I hope we do, but I really think we are going to be disappointed.

[Ray]

3 hours ago, FionaMG said:

Somebody just posted this link over on CC.

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

It's a bit long-winded but then anything and everything that comes from the EU is.

Page 1 .right at bottom...these are the views of the author not the eu....basically it means nothing, saved me reading 48 pages of long winded rubbish that means nothing 

[Jason Suffolk]

Face masks and 1.5m distancing. That's the headline for me from 48 pages

[princevaliantus]

On 7/2/2020 at 2:03 PM, Ray said:

Page 1 .right at bottom...these are the views of the author not the eu....basically it means nothing, saved me reading 48 pages of long winded rubbish that means nothing 

Thank you for catching that...It saved me alot of time. 

[cruisellama]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:51 AM, FionaMG said:

Somebody just posted this link over on CC.

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

It's a bit long-winded but then anything and everything that comes from the EU is.

Masks will leave bad tan lines

 

[twangster]

On 7/3/2020 at 7:02 PM, cruisellama said:

Masks will leave bad tan lines

Mask tans lines are better than a mortician's make up job.  

[bobroo]

I gotta tell you guys I am troubled by Matt's recent post about the proposed EU guidelines. I've been thinking about it quite a bit over the weekend.

It's not the guidelines themselves, they seem so simple. I have always thought that when cruising resumes the change in culture will be harder than the changes themselves. That's why I have been upset that Royal has not come out and said "we are going to create many areas for hand washing", "we are going to reform the old practices of embarkation to allow for social distancing", or "we are changing the way we serve food"; very, very easy and conscientious changes that cost very little.

And, it's not that our promised "Blue Ribbon Panel" may in fact be those VP's who co-authored the EU guidance.

 

It's the reaction to the post. It's the thought that all people care about is whether they have to wear a mask. Wearing a mask is the deal killer; nothing else matters. They don't give a damn about changes that improve passenger's safety and cleanliness. What matters is Are you going to make me wear a mask???

 

If "Are you gonna make me wear a mask?" are the type passengers filling Royal ships is the future, then I don't think I want to be sharing the ship with you folks for a week; I'm not that kind of person.

 

 

[twangster]

1 hour ago, bobroo said:

That's why I have been upset that Royal has not come out and said "we are going to create many areas for hand washing"

All new builds and retrofits since 2016 have hand washing stations in the WJ.  Even Empress has hand washing stations in the WJ from her 2016 retrofit.  It's pretty challenging to install hand washing stations just anywhere on a ship - there is no plumbing or mechanical chases to install plumbing around a ship.  

Truth be told ships are already safer than many areas on land today.  Just look at noro statistics.  You are 21 times more likely to get noro in a school or church than a ship.  You are 42 times more likely to get noro at a restaurant in your home town than on a ship.  Where are the hand washing stations in churches, schools, restaurants and shopping malls?  It's a million times easier to install them on land than on a ship.  Yet that's not recommended by anyone.  Why do ships need them?  The task of retrofitting public schools with hand washing stations would be massive.  Cruises ships are significantly more challenging for such a retrofit.   Why isn't everyone outraged that schools aren't getting hand washing stations?

While several hundred people were infected with COVID19 from cruise ships in the early phases of this, thousands times that many became infected as a result of airplane travel during this same time.  The entire New York region outbreak was traced to airplanes.  Nearly all U.S. cases trace back in origin to airplane travel bringing it here.  Should they install hand washing stations every few rows on an airplane?

In March on Allure as we sailed to Spain just as Spain was emerging as a hotspot I saw fellow guests walking out of public restrooms on the ship without washing their hands.  Everyone on board knew about the virus and what was starting to explode at home yet people were not washing their hands in the restrooms.

You could install a sink every ten feet on a ship and there still will be anti-masker, anti-hand washing or anti-hand sanitizer types walking right past them even with the virus staring at them from the sidelines.

[Jill]

Here’s the thing......in order to be infected, you need to be within 6 feet of an infected person for 10 minutes or longer. Passing someone in a hallway or on the Promenade likely will not get you infected. 
 

My only real areas of concern would be elevators and theaters. I’d wear a mask in these areas. 
 

They can change muster drills in many ways to avoid the classic squish we all encounter before, during and after.

 

I absolutely believe that embarkation times will have to be enforced. No more showing up at 10:30/11:00 and boarding in 15 minutes. 
 

MDR the tables would need to be further apart but if you’re sailing at reduced capacity = less tables. 
 

In all honesty, land resorts are resorting to the same type standards. It all boils down to how badly you want/need a scenery change and what you’ll accept to get it. On the whole, a cruise ship is considerably cleaner than any land resort, especially in the US. 
 

I think the bigger issue is getting countries to accept ships. Right now most of the islands are requiring some type of negative Covid test. Maybe rapid tests will be in our future? 
————————————————-

“Close contact is defined as being within approximately 6 feet of someone who is positive for COVID-19, including those who may not yet be showing symptoms.  Experts say that contact with someone positive for the virus for about 10 minutes or longer can result in transmission.“ 

[Ampurp85]

I knew mask were going to be the sore spot, which is why even if I could cruise this year, I wouldn't feel comfortable. If people thought the CDC would have ease the restriction early, they would have only done so if mask were at 90% or higher. For every sane, kind and respectful person on a cruise there are three more who don't wash hands, save loungers that they never use, crowds on others and touches Windjammer food with their filthy hands.

I know a lot of people want RCCI to be more transparent but I get where they are coming from. If they release even probable protocol, people will take it as the truth. They will then get mad if/when the CDC contradicts it. Just look at this post, people where upset until another user pointed out this was not but an opinion. However, I don't doubt that a quarantine is in the picture if we want cruising back soon.

[twangster]

I think masks are controversial because they are new to most people in the West. 

In the US the CDC flip flopped on masks.  Initially in early 2020 they said masks were not needed unless you were in contact with someone known to be infected.  I wonder to this day if they took that position due to the shortage of masks so that people wouldn't hoard masks like toilet paper and prevent healthcare workers from being able to get masks.  In doing so they ignored science themselves and that is where they went off the rails.  Later they flipped and said masks were beneficial. 

Anytime an agency like the CDC does a 180 it's going to fuel controversy.  

My personal believe is that masks are part of the solution but not the entire solution.  The virus is still out there, it hasn't changed in how it spreads so easily since the first cases eight months ago.  If a mask in public places gives me a 17% better chance avoiding spreading the virus that's good enough for me.  Does it solve everything?  No.  Do I need to wear a mask in my living room with family who aren't known to be infected?  No.  If a family member was known to be infected you bet I'd be wearing a mask around my home and they would be wearing one too.  If my mask isn't perfect maybe my chances of transmission drop to 10%.  That's still enough for me to wear a mask.  

In my past I have driven a car in situations where I probably shouldn't have due to drinking alcohol.  Over the years I've never killed anyone doing so, never even got in an accident of any kind.  Yet the awareness that I could kill someone despite feeling invincible caused me to change my ways.  Just take an Uber.  Could be the best $15 I ever spent.  It's a pain sometimes but probably the best thing to mitigate the horrible possibility that would come from taking a life in a DUI accident. 

Wearing a mask follows this logic.  Of course if I felt sick I wouldn't go out and risk spreading it.  The science tells us that you can be infected and contagious without knowing it.  I don't ever want to be in a position to know I passed it along and caused someone else to die but I still need to go shopping and do things in public.  When this is all said and done I want to be able to look back and know I did everything I could to not be part of the problem.  So I wear a mask when shopping.  My mask procedure isn't perfect but it's something I can do to be part of the solution.  When others see me wear my mask it reinforces that they should too.  That is when it is even more effective.  Lead by example, motivate others without overtly calling them out, shaming them or confronting their choice not to wear a mask.  Let my adult children see me do it so I lead by example.  

The virus hasn't changed in eight months with respect to ease of transmission.  We need much of society to open, we need commerce.  With the virus basically unchanged masks are a means to allow society to reopen in some limited ways that will improve our economy while reducing the chances of spread.   

If wearing masks outside of my cabin on a ship proves to be an effective mitigation that allows cruising to resume I will wear a mask on a cruise and proudly sport my mask tan lines.  It may be the step that saves the cruise lines so it's totally worth it but we need everyone to get on board.  If it's required to cruise it needs to be enforced and there should be ramifications for those that said they would do it but choose not to.  If you won't wear a mask on a cruise I respect your choice not to sail for that reason but don't board a ship knowing you intend to violate the mask policy.  That's just not cool.

[Marlena]

I think my issue with masks is that for most of on board time it's just not feasible. Casinos yes  shows yes, embarkation yes. But pulling it down every 5 minutes to take a drink ( which we all know is super often on a cruise) is completely counterproductive and will spread it even more. Masks should be put on then not touched until you take it off and in a safe manner. So that's my issue.

( and I'm just adding that I've worked in anesthesia for 16 years so am used to them)

[teddy]

19 minutes ago, twangster said:

/snip

I think masks are controversial because they are new to most people in the West. 

I cut most of your post to save space, but I'd "like" it twice if I could.

Since I work in a supermarket, I wear a mask at work.  I even started wearing one before they were mandatory.  They really aren't that big of a deal.

While I'm all about freedoms and have plenty of concerns with government overreach, mask/face covering usage is simply not the hill to die on.



 

[Ampurp85]

I personally hate the mask, but I wear them. Those are the breaks, as with everything in life there has to be some compromise. We are still learning about the virus: it hasn't reduced its destruction, so if we want to get some semblance of normality, we need the mask. I find it amazing how people are so entitled, every business is a private one. So if they have a mask policy, your only right to not adhere to it, is to not frequent it. People who go places and don't wear the mask are in my opinion, aholes, because no one is forcing you to go into a grocery store, Target, Home Depot, etc. It is no different than the "no shoes, no shirt, no service" policy.

I do recall hearing Dr, Fauci say he downplayed the mask for the exact reason. He knew people would hoard them and thus most medical professionals would do without. I think this is how people turned it into something political. I love how mask became the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. We have a lot less freedom than people realize...but that's something else I won't get into.

[cruisellama]

Curious, if the the cruises are initially restricted in length to  - 3-7 days, will B2B cruises be prohibited?