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Transferring refundable to non-refundable deposits?


Ian T

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I have a feeling I may be about to answer my own question, but I always appreciate the input from all you learned folks on here.

In the past I have booked directly with RCCL via their UK web site; however it is somewhat restrictive compared to booking via a US TA - non-refundable deposits only and no option to cancel and re-book in order to take advantage of price drops. To overcome this (as well as have a valuable ally in the event that the pesky virus is still causing havoc) I recently booked a 2021 cruise through Michelle at MEI - who has been great - and it has got me thinking...

Is there any benefit in booking a refundable deposit at the outset and then re-booking with a non-refundable deposit as we get closer to the sail date?

Whilst the non-refundable deposit is lower I imagine it does not materially impact the overall cost of the cruise? Further, I presume that at the point I cancelled and re-booked I would be subject to the cruise cost at the time I did so, which is likely to be higher by virtue of the sail date being much closer?

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5 minutes ago, Ian T said:

Is there any benefit in booking a refundable deposit at the outset and then re-booking with a non-refundable deposit as we get closer to the sail date?

Sometimes, the answer is yes.

On some occasions, I've found it advantageous to rebook under NRD closer to sail date when I determine two things:

  1. 100% committal to going on the cruise
  2. Savings by switching
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22 minutes ago, Ian T said:

Whilst the non-refundable deposit is lower I imagine it does not materially impact the overall cost of the cruise? Further, I presume that at the point I cancelled and re-booked I would be subject to the cruise cost at the time I did so, which is likely to be higher by virtue of the sail date being much closer?

In the past I've seen refundable fares increase the cost by $400 dollars or so, paying $400 to protect $500 (really $200 for change/cancel fee) isn't something I am interested in doing. However, just did a mock booking on an upcoming (well not soon :() sailing and the refundable option raised the fare $206 dollars. Normally I still wouldn't because again I am paying $206 to protect a $200 change fee. (Personally wouldn't mind a FCC if I cancelled and we think long and hard before pulling the trigger so not planning on changing ship/sail/etc). However, if I was booking today and had the option of anything under the deposit, I'd strongly consider it, especially if booking after August 1st, 2020. Sadly, my only booking left, was a change to later date (without fee due to CWC) so no option for refundable. 

Edited by sk8erguy1978
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Sorry all but I now have a follow-up question (that's the trouble with having too much time on my hands to ponder future cruising ?).

If I cancel and re-book to take advantage of a price drop, what happens to any CP purchases... do they simply transfer across to the new booking "as is", do they transfer but then get price adjusted to the cost at that point in time, or is it case of refund and start again?

Oh, and what is the rule for any OBC?

Thanks ?

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2 hours ago, Ian T said:

 

If I cancel and re-book to take advantage of a price drop, what happens to any CP purchases... do they simply transfer across to the new booking "as is", do they transfer but then get price adjusted to the cost at that point in time, or is it case of refund and start again?

 

If you're just repricing a cruise then your Cruise Planner purchases stay the same. You keep the same booking number.  Your OBC would vary, depending on how you got it in the first place.  If it was a perk of the original booking and the current promotions do not include OBC, then you would lose that.  If you have OBC from a TA or a credit card reward, you would keep it.  So when you look at prices and promotions for repricing, be sure you consider what promotions you received originally. (This is if you booked with an agent from the USA - I know repricing isn't an option if booked in the UK).

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This depends a lot on which country you live in. Here in NZ you cannot book refundable and move to non refundable at a later date. If the cruise does get cheaper and you have a refundable deposit you can cancel and rebook at the lower rate. However, the refundable fare price is quite a lot higher than non refundable so if the cruise does not get cheaper or in fact goes up you are stuck with paying the extra $ for the refundable fare.

The deposit here for seven night or longer cruises is $400 NZD and the refundable cost can be up to $700 NZD so we still tend to book NRD and if the price drops significantly cancel and lose the deposit as sometimes this works out better. Our last Independence cruise was an example of this when the price of the Owners Suite dropped $2500 less than the GS we had booked at the time. Cancelled the GS and lost the deposit so save $2100 ($2500 - $400).

 

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5 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

If you're just repricing a cruise then your Cruise Planner purchases stay the same. You keep the same booking number.  Your OBC would vary, depending on how you got it in the first place.  If it was a perk of the original booking and the current promotions do not include OBC, then you would lose that.  If you have OBC from a TA or a credit card reward, you would keep it.  So when you look at prices and promotions for repricing, be sure you consider what promotions you received originally. (This is if you booked with an agent from the USA - I know repricing isn't an option if booked in the UK).

Many thanks. I plan to use MEI for all my future bookings so everything you have said applies.

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4 hours ago, F1guynz said:

This depends a lot on which country you live in. Here in NZ you cannot book refundable and move to non refundable at a later date. If the cruise does get cheaper and you have a refundable deposit you can cancel and rebook at the lower rate. However, the refundable fare price is quite a lot higher than non refundable so if the cruise does not get cheaper or in fact goes up you are stuck with paying the extra $ for the refundable fare.

The deposit here for seven night or longer cruises is $400 NZD and the refundable cost can be up to $700 NZD so we still tend to book NRD and if the price drops significantly cancel and lose the deposit as sometimes this works out better. Our last Independence cruise was an example of this when the price of the Owners Suite dropped $2500 less than the GS we had booked at the time. Cancelled the GS and lost the deposit so save $2100 ($2500 - $400).

 

Thanks. It's the same here in the UK and I have recently switched to booking through MEI. Great saving on that suite BTW! ?

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2 hours ago, Ian T said:

I have recently switched to booking through MEI.

I did look at this but with the exchange rate cruises are still cheaper in NZD and also include all gratuities.

Last years Canaries trip on Independence seems like such a long time ago now.

looking forward to getting back to cruising but I don’t think it will be until the 21/22 season starts down here.

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In North America I tend to book refundable when booking far in the future.  Once I feel greater confidence that I can commit to a date I try to convert to NRD.  

The difference between refundable and NRD changes over time, it's not a fixed amount.  As new "sales" or promotions are put forth the difference between refundable fares and NRD can change.  In some cases the difference is low, in other cases the difference is pretty significant.  

Converting a booking from refundable to NRD under North American rules will cause it to be repriced at the prevailing NRD rate.   The delta between the two rates the day I booked may or may not be the delta six months later.  The risk I take when booking refundable is not knowing what the NRD rate will be when I choose to convert later on.  Consequently I tend to convert as soon as possible unless I'm not confident.

Many times, more often than not, I leave my booking refundable because the rates have increased over time as the ship sells.  Two years before sail date the delta may have been $450 but 95 days before sailing the delta compared to my refundable rate may be -$125 or more.  I'd lose money by converting to NRD.  

I use refundable more as a placeholder to grab something that I have a high degree of interest in.  A particular cabin on a particular sailing.  Once I feel confident I can make it work, I work with my TA to either create a new NRD booking to take advantage of current OBC or I convert to NRD.   

Some regions are refundable even when booked on the North American site.  I had a South Pacific cruise on Voyager booked that was only offered on a refundable basis.  There was no NRD offered, even on the U.S. site.  

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As an example, the 2F studio balconies on Quantum class often have extreme refundable upcharges early on. 

When I booked this cruise the refundable rate with all my discounts for CAS and others was $2,262.47.  The NRD rate on that day was $1,303.97.  The difference between refundable and NRD was $958.50. 

I made a refundable booking to secure the cabin since I'm B2B and I want the same cabin.  The 2F sell out quickly.  I was on a ship at this time but it was late at night and NextCruise was closed.  Once NextCruise was open the next day I booked through them to get a small OBC included.  I cancelled my refundable booking on the phone as I sat at NextCruise.  As my cabin became available I had the NextCruise agent grab it for my new NRD booking.    

For that same cruise today the difference between refundable and NRD is now $320.  

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That $958 difference between refundable and NRD on the day I booked is irrelevant today.  

The $320 difference between refundable and NRD today would be irrelevant today if I had made a refundable booking back then.

Some people think "The difference was $958 when I booked so that is what my savings will be today when I convert it".  This is not correct.

Some people think "The difference today is $320 so I'll save $320 today if I convert it".  This is not correct.  

What is relevant is that the refundable rate when I booked was $2,262.47.  If I had booked that rate and I asked my TA to convert it today the current rate for NRD is $2,720.36.  I would have to pay $457.89 more to convert it to NRD today.  That makes no sense.  I'd keep my refundable booking and leave it alone.  

I gambled and booked it NRD at NextCruise back in the day.  My rate is $1,303.97 NRD.  I gambled that I would be able to take this cruise.  If my wager works out I'll save $958.50 compared to having a refundable booking and I'll save $1,416.39 compared to waiting and booking it today.  I like to look at that second number and justify my actions - the cruise pretty much paid for itself!

If my wager doesn't work out and I have to cancel this cruise I'll lose $100 for the fee associated with cancelling an NRD booking.  I'll get $150 of my deposit back as FCC in this scenario.

I took this bet based on the difference between saving $958 and the $100 fee should I cancel.  In that sense there is a bit of gambling involved.  

In other examples the difference between refundable and NRD might only be $70.  In that case I don't book it NRD and most of these example work out so I never convert them to NRD.  It never makes sense to convert these ones to NRD because it always would cost me more than $70 months later after cruise prices have increased.  I lose $70 if I take the cruise because it cost me $70 more to book refundable.  That's money well spent in many cases if I'm not 100% committed to the cruise or date but make no mistake I lost $70 for the security of having a refundable booking.

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One thing I noted recently.  Not all of the available discounts are eligible for refundable deposit bookings.  I have been on a rampage lately, utilizing military discounts.  Every time I asked, the refundable rate was not eligible to incorporate the military discount...only the non-refundable deposit option permitted the military discount.  I think the D+ balcony discount almost always applies but I know for sure that the military rate sometimes does not.

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Just now, WAAAYTOOO said:

One thing I noted recently.  Not all of the available discounts are eligible for refundable deposit bookings.  I have been on a rampage lately, utilizing military discounts.  Every time I asked, the refundable rate was not eligible to incorporate the military discount...only the non-refundable deposit option permitted the military discount.  I think the D+ balcony discount almost always applies but I know for sure that the military rate sometimes does not.

Especially when visiting NextCruise.  

Many times NextCruise refundable rates are crazy while at that same moment in time the Royal website has a somewhat reasonable refundable rate.  

Or...

NextCruise OBC is all but eliminated when you ask for a refundable rate.  

Not always, but most of the time.

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I have a similar question as @Ian T mentioned earlier with re-pricing a refundable to non-refundable: 

If I booked a refundable rate and saw a "too good to be true" cruise planner purchase like an $18 dollar drink package, would that drink package be lost in the conversion to a non-refundable rate? My assumption is yes, they would be cancelled since it's not a re-price but a re-book. 

Edited by sk8erguy1978
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4 minutes ago, sk8erguy1978 said:

I have a similar question as @Ian T mentioned earlier with re-pricing a refundable to non-refundable: 

If I booked a refundable rate and saw a "too good to be true" cruise planner purchase like an $18 dollar drink package, would that drink package be lost in the conversion to a non-refundable rate? My assumption is yes, they would be cancelled since it's not a re-price but a re-book. 

No, you would not lose your good cruise planner pricing just for repricing a cruise fare.  The only time you would lose your cruise planner items is if you cancel or move your cruise to a different ship or sail date.

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16 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

No, you would not lose your good cruise planner pricing just for repricing a cruise fare.  The only time you would lose your cruise planner items is if you cancel or move your cruise to a different ship or sail date.

The only time this gets complex is if you had OBC as part of the previous cruise promotion and you used that OBC to purchase cruise planner item.  Then you get a price drop (without the OBC).  From what I remember, you will owe money for that OBC that you lost but had already used (but you don't lose the purchase).

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1 hour ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

No, you would not lose your good cruise planner pricing just for repricing a cruise fare.  The only time you would lose your cruise planner items is if you cancel or move your cruise to a different ship or sail date.

I was under the impression it would be a new booking, but guess it makes sense to just be a reprice. 

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1 hour ago, WannaCruise said:

The only time this gets complex is if you had OBC as part of the previous cruise promotion and you used that OBC to purchase cruise planner item.  Then you get a price drop (without the OBC).  From what I remember, you will owe money for that OBC that you lost but had already used.

I did a reprice once that eliminated an OBC, Royal gave me a week or two to pay the difference, and kindly reminded me daily with an email.

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