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Warning - Royal Changing Ships Without Notice


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13 minutes ago, twangster said:

My TA has invested several hours on this talking with various levels.  

Royal "offered" to move us to another ship waiving the $100 NRD fee but there would be no price protection.  We would need to pay prevailing rates for Star Class on another ship.  Since we booked Allure within an hour of it opening up we had a pretty good rate.  That rate isn't available on other ships and Star Class availability is pretty low in general.  

They refused to grant any equivalent Star Class benefits for accepting their move of our booking to Liberty.  No gratuity, no Voom, No beverage package, no dining package, etc.  

Finally they offered a 100% refund of the non-refundable deposit.  I jumped at this. 

They said it can take up to 90 days to receive the refund.  I had a talk with my credit card company and explained it all truthfully.  Royal cancelled the cruise, attempted to substitute an inferior ship in a different class of service and ultimately they offered a refund in full but at 90 days away.  My credit card company also found this 90 days to be unacceptable so they are disputing the transaction on the basis that it shouldn't take 90 days to receive a refund when the merchant cancelled the service and will eventually issue the refund in full.  

<smh> very disappointing they would be so disingenuous & one sided.

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22 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

This should not happen. For 1 person to get their booking transferred with price protection and everyone else has to cancel, wait 90 days and start all over again at significantly higher prices is just wrong on so many levels.  Not only is the whole situation noxious, the level of service and CS incompetence is staggering.  This is going to result a LOT of turmoil and festering feelings.

My next cruises are four on Odyssey that my TA acknowledges are not going to happen.  We can't do anything on those right now so we have to wait for Royal to officially modify them.  

Sadly we both lament we get to repeat this sh*t show four times over when Royal finally admits Odyssey isn't sailing in November.  I think my TA is going to fire me.  

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everyday its another turmoil with Royal these days with all of us just over their excuses with the entire situation in regard to screw ups with FCC amounts, massive delays of funds being issued,  ship changes and just being felt as oh well either sail or lose, cabins being switched, lack of communication on whether sailings happening or not.  you  just dont know what to expect or when the bomb will explode......

all i can say for all us who utilize travel agents, we could never be more appreciative and grateful for fighting the battle for all of us spending hours among hours on phone with Royal once they get thru, reaching out to their area dm to resolve problems and address all the changes from airline/hotel arrangements and travel insurance. 

i am just glad its NOT me having to fight my own battle with all my cruises craziness ............just glad my travel agent has patience to deal with me trying to straighten many problems one after another when Royal drops another bomb.  just hope my travel agent doesnt cringe when she sees another email or phone call from me about another problem..................just sent travel agent email, my reservation AGAIN vanished for no reason for a sailing.

again Royal has missed the ball on this whole situation from the very beginning and they havent even apologized not once.  if only they realized all the variables involved from our standpoint or if it was personally them on the other side maybe things would be different.

tomorrow will be another day and hopefully soon we all will be finally cruising having many lava flows on a much needed cruise to get out of dry dock syndrome and forget all about this chaos.

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Someone posted this on Facebook.  I have an email into Michelle to check its validity.

It has been reported that Royal has relented faced with so much backlash on social media. Too little too late, mine is cancelled.

It's tiresome dealing with a company that doesn't understand it's guests, puts two left feet forward and only after tripping and falling on their face do they go back and try to recover, time and again.  Why does it have to become a scandal on social media for them to do the right thing?

It does go to show the value of using a travel agent but enough is enough.  The most important reason to use a travel agent should not be "because the company is so screwed up you don't want to have to deal with them".

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A couple observations.

 

It should not go unsaid that the majority of work TAs are doing today is for free. TAs do not get paid to Lift and Shift. TAs don't get paid to fight for refunds. TAs certainly don't get paid by the hour while they are on hold. We, as advanced cruisers, should be the adult in the room. Even though it is not required, if you've used your TA to save your bacon recently I think an envelope with a thank you and a gift card to your TAs local grocery store is absolutely in order. There is no such thing as "free".

Royal Caribbean frequently makes foot faults but this Allure situation is different. This is directly throwing passengers under the bus.  Add in the "Oh yeah, newsflash; in case you didn't notice Allure is not being amped" The sun rises the next day. "Up, up, up, up, hang on......yeah we already contracted and may have even paid for design work, engineering, and contractors to make fancy, colorful additions so.....we are just going to implement them at a later date. But you shouldn't like Allure any less." My take is that these two events show a lack of caring and frustration at the Miami headquarters. A lack of a plan and a lack of leadership. It is of the first "pain" passengers are going to feel because of the financial situation. Your red flag meter should be going crazy.

I've said long ago that hospitality has left the cruise industry. I'm fearful that going forward, a dishrag might make a better host.

We should be seeing another TA video from Richard Fain soon, I am hoping for some WOW!, not what's sitting in my kitchen sink.

 

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7 hours ago, twangster said:

It has been reported that Royal has relented faced with so much backlash on social media. Too little too late, mine is cancelled.

It's tiresome dealing with a company that doesn't understand it's guests, puts two left feet forward and only after tripping and falling on their face do they go back and try to recover, time and again.  Why does it have to become a scandal on social media for them to do the right thing?

It does go to show the value of using a travel agent but enough is enough.  The most important reason to use a travel agent should not be "because the company is so screwed up you don't want to have to deal with them".

I learned my lesson a few years back when I went through the Adventure of the Seas "soft launch" and Royal made it very clear who held all the cards. That's when Royal went from my brand of choice to being one of several options that i consider. I have since enjoyed cruises on multiple other lines (and still Royal when its the right fit) but I went from being a Loyal to Royal cheerleader to recommending several brands when asked.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, jticarruthers said:

I learned my lesson a few years back when I went through the Adventure of the Seas "soft launch" and Royal made it very clear who held all the cards. That's when Royal went from my brand of choice to being one of several options that i consider. I have since enjoyed cruises on multiple other lines (and still Royal when its the right fit) but I went from being a Loyal to Royal cheerleader to recommending several brands when asked.

 

 

 

 

100% agree with you @jticarruthers. I really recommended RCL these past 2 years, coming from Disney Cruise Line, I would say you get the same thing from RCL as you do from DCL. My tune has definitely changed. If you can afford DCL, go with them (if the casino is not your thing and you don't mind kids). I have also found that the hospitality industry is still very much alive with DCL, from all levels of their cast members.

To @twangster's point: RCL is constantly screwing up/"you". I will continue to use MEI FOR SURE, but RCL will probably not be considered first. Fixtures, food, etc, yeh, I get why pay more for that on DCL, but why do I have to pay so much more for competence and knowledge? Shouldn't be that way. RCL needs to pull it's head out of it's you know what! 

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44 minutes ago, bobroo said:

We should be seeing another TA video from Richard Fain soon, I am hoping for some WOW!, not what's sitting in my kitchen sink.

I'm curious where has Michael Bayley gone?  Why must Richard Fain be the face of Royal Caribbean International?  

Lisa Lutoff-Perlo has been busy and visible to the Celebrity community while Michael Bayley has become like a shy child hiding behind Richard Fain's leg.

Time for some leadership.  Anyone can head an organization during good times and get away with blunders, it's during times of challenge that leaders become clear.  It's time to stop the blunders and lead.  

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Glad to hear it got sorted out, but the take-away for me here is to always book refundable cruise fare.

NRD seems like a good idea at the time, but the inflexibility it creates in unexpected situations such as this has catapulted it from "you probably shouldn't book NRD" to "you should NOT book NRD".

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8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Glad to hear it got sorted out, but the take-away for me here is to always book refundable cruise fare.

NRD seems like a good idea at the time, but the inflexibility it creates in unexpected situations such as this has catapulted it from "you probably shouldn't book NRD" to "you should NOT book NRD".

Agreed, although sometimes the difference is unacceptable.  For instance, for our Harmony GC in 2021, if not booked through MEI, choosing refundable adds $1100 to the price of the fare.  Another one of my cruises had a $900 difference between refundable and non-refundable.  Some have been no more than $50 difference.  Where they come up with these prices is beyond me.

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9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Glad to hear it got sorted out, but the take-away for me here is to always book refundable cruise fare.

NRD seems like a good idea at the time, but the inflexibility it creates in unexpected situations such as this has catapulted it from "you probably shouldn't book NRD" to "you should NOT book NRD".

Imagine have no option of a deposit...NRD only ???‍♂️ 

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Just now, Jason12 said:

I did price a few with them but I’m not using one that does not save me anything ??‍♂️ We can now book online directly on any of the websites Aus, US and UK ?? 

They don't cost you anything, either, and  you'd have a choice of taking a refundable deposit - but it's your gamble ?

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19 minutes ago, Matt said:

Glad to hear it got sorted out, but the take-away for me here is to always book refundable cruise fare.

NRD seems like a good idea at the time, but the inflexibility it creates in unexpected situations such as this has catapulted it from "you probably shouldn't book NRD" to "you should NOT book NRD".

The A2 Star Class suite was only available NRD.  

It does occur to me that in Royal's mind Star Class is worthless.  In moving me to Liberty and removing Star Class features but offering nothing at all for that downgrade they are acknowledging there is no value in the Star Class program otherwise they surely would have recognized the different product that was booked versus what they were willing to provide in its place.

In the end you are correct, if the refundable rate on Royal is too high, look elsewhere, avoid non-refundable at all cost. 

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3 minutes ago, twangster said:

The A2 Star Class suite was only available NRD.  

It does occur to me that in Royal's mind Star Class is worthless.  In moving me to Liberty and removing Star Class features but offering nothing at all for that downgrade they are acknowledging there is no value in the Star Class program otherwise they surely would have recognized the different product that was booked versus what they were willing to provide in its place.

In the end you are correct, if the refundable rate on Royal is too high, look elsewhere, avoid non-refundable at all cost. 

All suites are NRD aren’t they?

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13 minutes ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Agreed, although sometimes the difference is unacceptable.  For instance, for our Harmony GC in 2021, if not booked through MEI, choosing refundable adds $1100 to the price of the fare.  Another one of my cruises had a $900 difference between refundable and non-refundable.  Some have been no more than $50 difference.  Where they come up with these prices is beyond me.

 So true. With the cruise I have booked for April, 2021 that I want to Lift & Shift to April, 2022 , for my original reservation when I booked it last month, it was believe it or not $4.00 to make it non-refundable. Of course I did it. The first re-price I did on it a week later the non-refundable cost went up to $20.00. I took it again for it would still save me $34.00 on the cruise. Now with this weeks sales re-price the non-refundable cost went up to $35.00. Once again I took it, for it will still save me $85.00 off the first re-price. 

13 minutes ago, Jason12 said:

Imagine have no option of a deposit...NRD only ???‍♂️ 

 I do believe my November, 2021 cruise on Harmony of the Seas had to be booked NRD in order to get the crazy low price I paid for it. 

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7 minutes ago, twangster said:

The UP on Oasis is Star and was bookable at refundable - at 3x the price.  Sometimes a Sky Class suite appears refundable but that is more rare.   

Interesting, I wonder if that was on purpose or someone messed up and coded it wrong. 

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Maybe a good way to avoid all the nonsense it to book last minute only. Meaning, you'l know if two weeks from now the sailing is going to happen. You'll know what the conditions are onboard. And, you'll know how much it is going to cost.

I know it's not the way Royal wants us to play the game, but there are just too many variables that negatively affect passengers. Don't be a bag holder.

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The other things that bothers me in this NRD conversation is why should that be a factor when Royal is cancelling the cruise?

They cancelled the cruise.  I didn't. 

I still want to sail Allure even if it isn't AMPED on that date.  I'd even fly to Florida to do it.  Change home ports, just let me sail.  Nope. Royal won't let me.

So given this is all on Royal, why should I have to book refundable?  

It seems the motivation and reasoning to book refundable is to protect yourself when Royal is being completely unreasonable when they decide to move me to another ship and downgrade me to a vastly inferior cabin compared to what I booked.  Hmmm.

I respectfully disagree that the "solution" to this issue would have been booking refundable.  A reasonable company wouldn't have put me in the place they did in this scenario.  

A guest should be able to book a non-refundable fare and maintain an expectation of being treated fairly when the company chooses to make a drastic and unprecedented change to the booking.

Allure is going somewhere on my date.  They aren't scuttling the ship.  Someone will sail in my cabin on that date.  Why can't it be me?  

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Did anyone else's itinerary get changes as well? 

March 2022 Allure was going to Roatan, Costa Maya, Cozumel...

Now Liberty taken over sail date and it is changed to Falmouth, George Town, Cozumel...

They moved us to interior deck 10 under the Pools from a mid-level interior on Allure...

Hello cancellation and refund of deposit...

(For the record we would still be sailing on Liberty if they hadn't changed the ports... Sailed on her before and will again...) 

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The news that Royal chose to delay the construction of the new Galveston terminal has been out for several months now. 

Why the sudden rush to slam guest over to Liberty?

They are days or weeks from figuring out where Allure will be moved to.  Some claim to already know but they haven't made Allure bookable yet.

Why not wait until its known where Allure will go and offer guests the option of staying on her?  Seems like a win-win as another choice.   

   A. Do nothing and enjoy the wonderful Allure of the Seas from her new home port in XYZ.

   B. Enjoy the beautiful Liberty of the Seas who will remain in Texas where guest have grown to love her.

   C. Since we made the choice to cause this unfortunate situation you are entitled to a prompt full refund without hesitation.

   D. We have a number of other ships sailing wonderful itineraries.  We'll gladly move your deposit to any ship in any cabin based on prevailing rates.

Wow, what a nice presentation of choices.

 

Instead they went with:

   You are now on Liberty like it or not.  It's not negotiable. 

   Oh wait, this is blowing up on social media for some strange reason.  Okay fine, you can have a refund but you're going to wait a long time for it.    

 

Come on man!

Who's running this company? (asking as an investor)

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47 minutes ago, twangster said:

The news that Royal chose to delay the construction of the new Galveston terminal has been out for several months now. 

Why the sudden rush to slam guest over to Liberty?

They are days or weeks from figuring out where Allure will be moved to.  Some claim to already know but they haven't made Allure bookable yet.

Why not wait until its known where Allure will go and offer guests the option of staying on her?  Seems like a win-win as another choice.   

   A. Do nothing and enjoy the wonderful Allure of the Seas from her new home port in XYZ.

   B. Enjoy the beautiful Liberty of the Seas who will remain in Texas where guest have grown to love her.

   C. Since we made the choice to cause this unfortunate situation you are entitled to a prompt full refund without hesitation.

   D. We have a number of other ships sailing wonderful itineraries.  We'll gladly move your deposit to any ship in any cabin based on prevailing rates.

Wow, what a nice presentation of choices.

 

Instead they went with:

   You are now on Liberty like it or not.  It's not negotiable. 

   Oh wait, this is blowing up on social media for some strange reason.  Okay fine, you can have a refund but you're going to wait a long time for it.    

 

Come on man!

Who's running this company? (asking as an investor)

If @twangster is pissed (justifiable id say)....its bad.  You have always been as level headed, calm, cool, and collected, as anyone.

 

Im gonna go cry in a bottle of Captain Morgan.  

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1 hour ago, SteveinSC said:

If @twangster is pissed (justifiable id say)....its bad.  You have always been as level headed, calm, cool, and collected, as anyone.

 

Im gonna go cry in a bottle of Captain Morgan.  

I was thinking the same thing, if the @twangster bot is becoming sentient and attacking we’re going to be really screwed when Lulubot @Lovetocruise2002 goes after the programmers. It’s clearly the first step to Skynet. 

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4 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

 

They don't cost you anything, either, and  you'd have a choice of taking a refundable deposit - but it's your gamble ?

It's a gamble no matter what you do... especially now with the pandemic.  The advantage of booking refundable goes away after the final payment date anyway.  That's when the stakes are higher because they have all the money then. 

When I called Royal the other day about a reprice, I saved some money.  I'm pleased that Royal still does that because airlines certainly don't.  I asked the customer representative if he had any inside information about cruising starting Aug 1st ---he wasn't optimistic.

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13 minutes ago, Dad2Cue said:

It's a gamble no matter what you do... especially now with the pandemic.  The advantage of booking refundable goes away after the final payment date anyway.  That's when the stakes are higher because they have all the money then. 

When I called Royal the other day about a reprice, I saved some money.  I'm pleased that Royal still does that because airlines certainly don't.  I asked the customer representative if he had any inside information about cruising starting Aug 1st ---he wasn't optimistic.

One correction, most airlines don’t. At any point during the process you can reprice a Southwest Airlines flight.

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I'm just going to throw this out there: It was only after reading @twangster trip reports that I decided to book a star class cruise with Royal (formerly went with DCL). I'm sure I'm not the only one either. For someone providing Royal with essentially free advertising resulting in who knows how much additional income, you'd think they might want to treat this person a little bit better in this situation. Don't they know who you are!!!

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1 minute ago, Andrew72681 said:

One correction, most airlines don’t. At any point during the process you can reprice a Southwest Airlines flight.

That's what I hear but they aren't an option for me.  My brother raves about them.  No baggage fees also I hear.  Just like the good old days.

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So I just called my travel agent about the new change from LOS to any other ship within a month with price protection. They didn't know about it, they called RC and they didn't know about it. Why don't people at RC know about everything that this blog knows about, and what's the best way to get this cruise switched over when they don't have all the info?

(This seems to happen frequently where RC reps don't know things that have been posted on Royal Caribbean Blog.)

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20 minutes ago, nate91 said:

So I just called my travel agent about the new change from LOS to any other ship within a month with price protection. They didn't know about it, they called RC and they didn't know about it. Why don't people at RC know about everything that this blog knows about, and what's the best way to get this cruise switched over when they don't have all the info?

(This seems to happen frequently where RC reps don't know things that have been posted on Royal Caribbean Blog.)

Unfortunately even when there are official releases from Royal Caribbean the agents that you speak with aren't "in the know" about them.  They aren't been apprised of all the changes to Terms & Conditions in a timely fashion.  There are releases that go out to the Travel Agencies that outline the specifics when they make offers.  I believe in the blog post about this, it's showing the letter that was sent out to Travel Agents that have customers impacted by this change.  Your TA may not have gotten this email for a myriad of reasons (most of them the fault of Royal's poor IT and communications) so they didn't know about it.  

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/06/12/royal-caribbean-expands-options-guests-affected-cancelled-allure-of-the-seas-sailings

This wasn't originally an option,  but they listened to the feedback/complaints they received and some folks have reported success in escalating to get moved to a cruise that works for them.  They've posted in Facebook pages and that's trickled over into messageboard posts so if you're reading the messageboards you will see the changes happen in real time.  

I know @Matt tries really hard to put out accurate information through the blog and not post based on rumors without substantiation or official word from Royal Caribbean.

 

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