Ethical question

[bcarney]

So last year a number of members of my extended family booked a cruise on Norwegian, and, despite it not being on RC, we decided to join them. The cruise was to sail on 3/29, and by mid-March I decided to cancel the cruise since NCL hadn't at that point had been shamed into cancelling cruises like the other lines did. No refunds, FCC only at that time.

So I'm stuck with a $4K credit with NCL and I'm going to lose $2,220 in airfare from Spirit. And honestly, I have no intention of sailing NCL since they basically had to be SHAMED by their competitors to shut down. I want to stick with Royal - bumps and all, they are doing the right things IMHO. 

I'm considering booking another cruise, buying "cancel for any reason" insurance, and then 'cancelling' the cruise to at least get 2/3rds of my money back so I can book with RC.

None of NCLs offerings have any appeal to me now that I've gone through their 'nickel and dime' pre-boarding process, I found the whole thing distasteful (free wifi! Unless you use it, then there's a fee. Free meals at upcharge restaurants! But if you order anything but the kids menu, there's another fee). 

I know it's unethical, but is this something you would do?  I dont want to sail NCL, but I also don't want to be out the $3K I could recover by doing this.

[Ian T]

4 hours ago, bcarney said:

So last year a number of members of my extended family booked a cruise on Norwegian, and, despite it not being on RC, we decided to join them. The cruise was to sail on 3/29, and by mid-March I decided to cancel the cruise since NCL hadn't at that point had been shamed into cancelling cruises like the other lines did. No refunds, FCC only at that time.

So I'm stuck with a $4K credit with NCL and I'm going to lose $2,220 in airfare from Spirit. And honestly, I have no intention of sailing NCL since they basically had to be SHAMED by their competitors to shut down. I want to stick with Royal - bumps and all, they are doing the right things IMHO. 

I'm considering booking another cruise, buying "cancel for any reason" insurance, and then 'cancelling' the cruise to at least get 2/3rds of my money back so I can book with RC.

None of NCLs offerings have any appeal to me now that I've gone through their 'nickel and dime' pre-boarding process, I found the whole thing distasteful (free wifi! Unless you use it, then there's a fee. Free meals at upcharge restaurants! But if you order anything but the kids menu, there's another fee). 

I know it's unethical, but is this something you would do?  I dont want to sail NCL, but I also don't want to be out the $3K I could recover by doing this.

I run an international claims team for a major insurer so can't condone what you are suggesting and, without reading the policy documentation of course, I doubt you would get the pay out that you are looking for... the intention of an insurance policy of this nature is typically to provide cover on an indemnity basis;  namely to make you whole for your direct financial outlay in relation to the cruise in question. FCC is not a direct financial outlay but a credit from NCL (you did not have the money in the bank prior to booking so cannot claim for it post cancellation of that booking). It is still available to you but you are choosing (for your own good reasons, I know) not to use it, which is a matter between you and NCL, not the insurance company.

I know we all bemoan the cost of our insurance premiums (me included! ) but two major factors are generally taken into account when pricing risk - 1, the physical risk being covered and 2, the moral hazard, or the chance that the level of risk will be greater/lower due to the behaviour of the insured. This is why auto insurance is typically more expensive for younger and/or less experienced drivers.

Further, the insurance industry is, rightly, very highly regulated. This brings a lot of operating costs and, believe it or not, insurance companies typically work to narrow (often single digit) percentage margins (and given the number and scale of natural catastrophes in recent years many have even been operating at a loss) so there is not a great deal of wriggle room in which they can work. The insured has an obligation in law to notify the insurer of any material factor of which they are aware before taking out the policy. Without sugar coating it, failure to do so is fraud and if the insurer has reason to believe on the balance of probability that an insured has intentionally withheld or misrepresented such information they have the legal right to withdraw the policy cover and recover any money paid to the insured. It can also lead to criminal action. Insurance fraud is a billion dollar issue for the global insurance industry and, by extension, for all of us as policyholders too as someone has to pay for it... going back to my earlier point this is a moral hazard and is factored into the premiums paid by each and every one of us, so even if you did succeed in receiving a pay out, the money in your bank would essentially be money taken from ours.

Needless say therefore, my advice is don't do it!

[Jason12]

He saying he will buy “cancel for any reason insurance” which is exactly that, it’s what some cruise companies sell allowing people to cancel anytime upto a certain date even if you change your mind, and it’s very good I’d say yes do it..

[timm804]

I don’t think it’s unethical I just wouldn’t choke the 1/3 of $4k and the cost of the insurance.  Not sure you’d see $3k back after these costs?

We’ve sailed on the Escape and would again without hesitation.  I don’t remember any upcharges at the specialty restaurants although we didn’t go off the menu for anything that wasn’t already included.  Crew was excellent.  

[Jill]

If you cancelled for any reason wouldn’t they just reissue the FCC? 
 

Could you transfer the FCC to a family member that wants to go on NCL and charge them 3/4 of the value (or whatever % your comfortable With) of the FCC? That way you can recoup some of your money? 
 

I know in certain circumstances people have been able to get FCC’s changed to a different name with RC. 

[WAAAYTOOO]

30 minutes ago, Jill said:

If you cancelled for any reason wouldn’t they just reissue the FCC? 

This is my opinion as well.  I think you'd just end up with the FCC back again

[Dad2Cue]

5 hours ago, Jill said:

If you cancelled for any reason wouldn’t they just reissue the FCC? 

Could you transfer the FCC to a family member that wants to go on NCL and charge them 3/4 of the value (or whatever % your comfortable With) of the FCC? That way you can recoup some of your money? 

Agree with the first part and you might end up with a bigger FCC.

Usually not transferable for the second part.

I wouldn't try the insurance part just because it doesn't sound right. 

I'm not sure what NCL policy is.  For RCCI, I was told I would have to book the cruise and pay the deposit before the FCC was applied because the FCC couldn't be used for taxes/port fees.  If NCL does refunds like Royal, you may have more money tied up before everything is sorted out.

[Traveler]

The firs thing the insurance company will ask you when you will issue your claim  is to send a copy of the original receipt 
What they want to see is if you have insurance as part of the "ticket" or any other way to get your money back , FCC might trigger issues during this point.  

[PhillyLady]

These have been crazy times and the travel industry is devastated and making decisions on the fly.

I agree with Traveler that you may not be able to get any cash back from insurance on a cruise that you paid for with FCC.

I am also not clear why you are so upset with NCL for somewhat minor issues, that you refuse to use them in the future, even though you have credit, while you are willing to lose thousands of dollars on airfare with nary a complaint (do you have an air credit as well?).

My advice is to have a more flexible and forgiving attitude, rather than creating a scheming scenario to try to access a cash refund.

Just plan some extra trips for fun--an NCL cruise to a new destination, several long weekends on Spirit Airlines.  Or, see if you can transfer the credits to friends and family.

By the way, I have been on at least eight different cruise lines, and I do not find significant differences across any of them in terms of trying to "upsell" products or activities. 

 

 

[twangster]

When I needed to make a claim for missing a cruise due to a covered reason I was required to get a statement from the cruise line that outlined any refunds (port fees and taxes) and exactly how much I didn't get back.  I had used an FCC towards my cruise and that came off the total amount I was eligible to claim as I was able to get the FCC portion reissued.  

I think the best way forward is to find a way to forgive NCL and to book a cruise with them.   

Expecting a different, unrelated company and their stakeholders to incur a loss to make you whole because you don't like NCL anymore even if it did pay out, which I doubt it will, is wrong.   It's almost like walking into a bank with a gun and demanding that amount of money.  Why should a bank who had nothing to do with it incur a loss just to make you whole?  Even if you could scheme a way for an insurance company to pay out, it isn't much different than stealing the money from a bank.   The only difference is you don't have a gun in your hand.  Either way it's wrong.

In the early days of March I was on a cruise heading to Spain.  In the days leading up to getting on a plane and boarding the ship our government was ignoring and downplaying the virus.  No cruise line had a crystal ball to foresee how this was going to play out.  Royal didn't deliberately put me at risk, they didn't know any more than I did how this was going to turn out.  Neither did NCL.  Looking back all the signs were there but we all ignored them.  Hindsight is always 20-20.  I'm sure Royal, NCL and Carnival would all like a do-over.  

At one point in time you make the decision to book with NCL.  That was a choice and you made it.  Thankfully you do have a $4k credit with NCL so find a way to get back to that happy place when you decided to book with NCL and go forth with an open mind and open heart.  Enjoy your cruise.  

[bcarney]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.  Looks like I'll be on an NCL cruise in the future, but I doubt I can get all my family members in the same place again.