I understand closing a cruise port, but...

[mathbees]

I don't understand how we've still got cruise ships with passengers at sea (no RC ships, I believe - some of the RC's are at sea with crew only).  It seems to me that the port fees that get paid should mandate that the ship be able to pull back into port - at least their original disembarkation port.  They can quarantine and such there, but to keep them at sea should be a breach of contract with the cruise port.  I'm no lawyer, so I may be completely in the wrong, but I just don't understand how they can do that.

Imagine if all airports were allowed to refuse a single plane while it was in the air?

I realize that the cruise line isn't paying these fees if they are not docking (like when a ship misses a port due to heavy seas), but we pay these up front with the expectations associated with that.

[Jill]

The Holland America ship (Zaandamn) was supposed to disembark in Chile. Chile refused them. Not sure about the Rotterdam. The ones out there trying to port in Florida I believe were all refused at their end points. 
 

According to Bloomberg, there are still 5 ships out there. 
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-where-are-the-cruise-ships/

[Shari]

36 minutes ago, Jill said:

The Holland America ship (Zaandamn) was supposed to disembark in Chile. Chile refused them. Not sure about the Rotterdam. The ones out there trying to port in Florida I believe were all refused at their end points. 
 

 

The Rotterdam took some of the healthy passengers from the Zaandam to help its sister ship as some of the Zaandam crew was also ill.

[SpeedNoodles]

 

4 hours ago, Jill said:

The Holland America ship (Zaandamn) was supposed to disembark in Chile. Chile refused them. Not sure about the Rotterdam. The ones out there trying to port in Florida I believe were all refused at their end points. 
 

 

The Zaandam had passengers that were on both a 14 day sailing (to disembark in Santiago ) and passengers that were on a 17 day sailing (Santiago to Fort Lauderdale) and passengers that were on 31 day sailing (to disembark in Fort Lauderdale).  So there were passengers on the ship whose end points were actually Fort Lauderdale.

Rotterdam also had Fort Lauderdale as their planned disembarkation point. 

[tonyfsu21]

This issue with the Holland America ships has been a huge mess here in Fort Lauderdale. Ultimately they were given permission to dock here yesterday and release the guests to designated busses taking them straight to the tarmac at FLL for awaiting chartered aircraft. The ill passengers were taken to Broward Health in Downtown. When I woke up this am I could see 2 HA ships and 1 RC ship in port. 

[tonyfsu21]

Here’s a shot on my way home from Starbucks going over the 17th street causeway bridge. You can see all 3 ships. 

[DaiC01]

Its the right of any sovereign state to disallow access, you point about aircraft has happened {refusal to land} many time before especially during when hijacking them was so popular. 

[Jill]

I heard on the news this morning from a passenger that they were bussed to the tarmac at FLL but he said once they landed in Atlanta to make their connections, they all just went right into the terminal and mixed with the general population. So all this strict disembarkation and they all end up mixing with everyone in the Atlanta airport.

[twangster]

On 4/4/2020 at 7:57 AM, mathbees said:

Imagine if all airports were allowed to refuse a single plane while it was in the air?

9/11 saw exactly that.  Fortunately Canada stepped in and allowed dozens of planes destined for the US to land otherwise they would have run out of fuel over the ocean and thousands would have died.

[tonyfsu21]

35 minutes ago, Jill said:

I heard on the news this morning from a passenger that they were bussed to the tarmac at FLL but he said once they landed in Atlanta to make their connections, they all just went right into the terminal and mixed with the general population. So all this strict disembarkation and they all end up mixing with everyone in the Atlanta airport.

Figures. What a mess. 

[twangster]

I find it ironic that a state that has reaped the benefits of the cruise industry to the greatest degree was so quick to refuse them.  Florida primary economy is the travel industry and the cruise industry has consistently poured billions into the Florida economy over the past decades.

Without federal intervention those ships might still be out there.  

[mworkman]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

I find it ironic that a state that has reaped the benefits of the cruise industry to the greatest degree was so quick to refuse them.  Florida primary economy is the travel industry and the cruise industry has consistently poured billions into the Florida economy over the past decades.

Without federal intervention those ships might still be out there.  

With that statement, what about those countries that have also benefited from Cruise ships stops, pouring money into their economy that turned away ships. 

[twangster]

32 minutes ago, mworkman said:

With that statement, what about those countries that have also benefited from Cruise ships stops, pouring money into their economy that turned away ships. 

The difference being that Florida as the capital of all home ports realizes much greater benefits. 

Hotels, bars, restaurants that feed guests about to board a ship.  Port Everglades on it's busier days boards nearly 26,000 cruise ships guests - that's one day.  Port of Miami even more.  Think of what all those guest drop into the local economy, paying state and local hotel taxes, eating in restaurants before boarding.  Taxi, ride-share drivers and shuttle bus companies.  How many shuttle buses coming and go all day long for each ship? 

Think of the supply chain filling hundreds of ships week after week.  Truck drivers, food and booze suppliers, fuel distributors.  Taxes on those supplies we love to consume each cruise are revenue directly to the state coffers.  Port employees, security guards, terminal contractors.    Thousands of cruise line employees across multiple brands that live in Florida and pay Florida taxes, contributing to the economies of local communities. 

All those companies that support cruise lines and allow them to sail week after week hire employees and they pay state and local taxes. 

Everyone knows how cruise ship visits to a port of call floats many island nation economies but that dwarfs in comparison to the contribution of the cruise line industry to the state of Florida and the economy of so many parts of Florida.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

[RCVoyager]

4 hours ago, twangster said:

The difference being that Florida as the capital of all home ports realizes much greater benefits. 

Hotels, bars, restaurants that feed guests about to board a ship.  Port Everglades on it's busier days boards nearly 26,000 cruise ships guests - that's one day.  Port of Miami even more.  Think of what all those guest drop into the local economy, paying state and local hotel taxes, eating in restaurants before boarding.  Taxi, ride-share drivers and shuttle bus companies.  How many shuttle buses coming and go all day long for each ship? 

Think of the supply chain filling hundreds of ships week after week.  Truck drivers, food and booze suppliers, fuel distributors.  Taxes on those supplies we love to consume each cruise are revenue directly to the state coffers.  Port employees, security guards, terminal contractors.    Thousands of cruise line employees across multiple brands that live in Florida and pay Florida taxes, contributing to the economies of local communities. 

All those companies that support cruise lines and allow them to sail week after week hire employees and they pay state and local taxes. 

Everyone knows how cruise ship visits to a port of call floats many island nation economies but that dwarfs in comparison to the contribution of the cruise line industry to the state of Florida and the economy of so many parts of Florida.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

Maybe the cruise lines will rethink the number of stops they make on some of the islands going forward.  Maybe they will take a ship or two from Florida and move them to TX or NO or somewhere else that is cruise friendly.  Florida has so many advantages over most other places, but they have got to be more welcoming when there are problems.

But in these trying times, this kind of stuff is everywhere.  I look at how my wife's company has treated its employees during this time and how mine has.  It's night and day.  The wheat has been separated from the chaff.  If my company goes out of business, I no longer care.  I'm vested.  My coworkers are too.  They have shown who they are.  Let them live on the crumbs they kept from falling through the cracks.  It's the same across every industry right now including cruising.

[twangster]

19 minutes ago, RCVoyager said:

Maybe this cruise lines will rethink the number of stops they make on some of the islands going forward.  Maybe they will take a ship or two from Florida and move them to TX or NO or somewhere else that is cruise friendly.  Florida has so many advantages over most other places, but they have got to be more welcoming when there are problems.

But in these trying times, this kind of stuff is everywhere.  I look at how my wife's company has treated it's employees during this time and how mine has.  It's night and day.  The wheat has been separated from the chaff.  If my company goes out of business, I no longer care.  I'm vested.  My coworkers are too.  They have shown who they are.  Let them live on the crumbs they kept from falling through the cracks.  It's the same across every industry right now including cruising.

When a government starts acting like one of the company's you refer to, you know have a problem.  

[mworkman]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

The difference being that Florida as the capital of all home ports realizes much greater benefits. 

Hotels, bars, restaurants that feed guests about to board a ship.  Port Everglades on it's busier days boards nearly 26,000 cruise ships guests - that's one day.  Port of Miami even more.  Think of what all those guest drop into the local economy, paying state and local hotel taxes, eating in restaurants before boarding.  Taxi, ride-share drivers and shuttle bus companies.  How many shuttle buses coming and go all day long for each ship? 

Think of the supply chain filling hundreds of ships week after week.  Truck drivers, food and booze suppliers, fuel distributors.  Taxes on those supplies we love to consume each cruise are revenue directly to the state coffers.  Port employees, security guards, terminal contractors.    Thousands of cruise line employees across multiple brands that live in Florida and pay Florida taxes, contributing to the economies of local communities. 

All those companies that support cruise lines and allow them to sail week after week hire employees and they pay state and local taxes. 

Everyone knows how cruise ship visits to a port of call floats many island nation economies but that dwarfs in comparison to the contribution of the cruise line industry to the state of Florida and the economy of so many parts of Florida.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

Thats all great to say but when Florida has the highest percentage of elderly that are in the highest risk category for Covid-19 base on the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-higher-risk.html and the hospitals have almost reached capacity for beds with shortage anticipated. https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-florida-coronavirus-hospital-bed-capacities-maps-20200329-6thwslpdlvd37ieizzwed5vcfy-htmlstory.html  So your logic doesn't sit well with be because your placing financial gains over human lives.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, mworkman said:

Thats all great to say but when Florida has the highest percentage of elderly that are in the highest risk category for Covid-19 base on the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-higher-risk.html and the hospitals have almost reached capacity for beds with shortage anticipated. https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-florida-coronavirus-hospital-bed-capacities-maps-20200329-6thwslpdlvd37ieizzwed5vcfy-htmlstory.html  So your logic doesn't sit well with be because your placing financial gains over human lives.

Yet their stay at home just went into effect a day ago.  Why?  Because the governor didn't want to impact business and the Florida economy.   So who is putting money first?

[tonyfsu21]

4 hours ago, twangster said:

The difference being that Florida as the capital of all home ports realizes much greater benefits. 

Hotels, bars, restaurants that feed guests about to board a ship.  Port Everglades on it's busier days boards nearly 26,000 cruise ships guests - that's one day.  Port of Miami even more.  Think of what all those guest drop into the local economy, paying state and local hotel taxes, eating in restaurants before boarding.  Taxi, ride-share drivers and shuttle bus companies.  How many shuttle buses coming and go all day long for each ship? 

Think of the supply chain filling hundreds of ships week after week.  Truck drivers, food and booze suppliers, fuel distributors.  Taxes on those supplies we love to consume each cruise are revenue directly to the state coffers.  Port employees, security guards, terminal contractors.    Thousands of cruise line employees across multiple brands that live in Florida and pay Florida taxes, contributing to the economies of local communities. 

All those companies that support cruise lines and allow them to sail week after week hire employees and they pay state and local taxes. 

Everyone knows how cruise ship visits to a port of call floats many island nation economies but that dwarfs in comparison to the contribution of the cruise line industry to the state of Florida and the economy of so many parts of Florida.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

Very true. Seeing the wheels spin every single day on 17th Street and then it all comes to a halt. Lots of people in the supply chain hurting. The issue at hand is hospital beds though. We can barely keep up with the current intake let alone start opening beds for the cruise lines. I get it though, it’s par for the course. 

[RCVoyager]

On 4/4/2020 at 12:33 PM, Jill said:

The Holland America ship (Zaandamn) was supposed to disembark in Chile. Chile refused them. Not sure about the Rotterdam. The ones out there trying to port in Florida I believe were all refused at their end points. 
 

According to Bloomberg, there are still 5 ships out there. 
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-where-are-the-cruise-ships/

Hi Jill.  I like looking up the histories of ships and sometimes like to look them up from the history of other posters on this board.  All three of your retired ships have long histories with a lot going on.  They're all still in operation.  Check them out in Wikipedia.  I have one from my history that actually sunk (not when I was on it, but it sunk).

[Jill]

2 hours ago, RCVoyager said:

Hi Jill.  I like looking up the histories of ships and sometimes like to look them up from the history of other posters on this board.  All three of your retired ships have long histories with a lot going on.  They're all still in operation.  Check them out in Wikipedia.  I have one from my history that actually sunk (not when I was on it, but it sunk).

Yes I have kept up with them as well. Song of America is a beautiful ship. Monarch and Sovereign as well. They’re all so tiny now! Lol My heart is with Oasis class now. Freedom class doesn’t even cut it! Will be trying my first Quantum class (Odyssey) October of 2021. 

[RCVoyager]

5 minutes ago, Jill said:

Yes I have kept up with them as well. Song of America is a beautiful ship. Monarch and Sovereign as well. They’re all so tiny now! Lol My heart is with Oasis class now. Freedom class doesn’t even cut it! Will be trying my first Quantum class (Odyssey) October of 2021. 

By water displacement, you can fit 5 Titanics in an Oasis class ship.  Crazy.

[DunkelBierJay]

On 4/4/2020 at 8:57 AM, mathbees said:

It seems to me that the port fees that get paid should mandate that the ship be able to pull back into port - at least their original disembarkation port.  They can quarantine and such there, but to keep them at sea should be a breach of contract with the cruise port. 

I completely agree with this...to me, it is unconscionable that the South American cruise ports that affected the Zaandam, Rotterdam and Coral Princess and the plight that the people on those ships were put through only to pawn it off on the big ports in the US is completely ridiculous. I think this needs to have extensive maritime law review, and the governments in the disembarkation ports held strictly accountable for the buck they passed to others.