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Looks like foreign flagged vessels need to seek help from the country they are flagged from.


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If I'm reading the coast guards memo correctly NO foreign flagged ship will be allowed to MEDEVAC in the seventh district (Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Puerto Rico). Looks like the Rotterdam and Zaandam could be stuck if the governor of Florida doesn't give them and exception.  

 

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Wow!!!  I can understand but am absolutely AMAZED!  I understand that they may be sailing under the flag of another nation and pay taxes to those nations but to refuse medical assistance to those in need takes is just a wee bit too far IMHO.  While they do pay a bulk of taxes to other nations we also know that there are some US taxpayers onboard as well.  They should not be left out at sea wondering what their future holds! Seeing what I see in the ER with those that do suffer the worst from complications from COVID-19 (most are indeed sent home to isolate without needing to be admitted ) a ship is the absolute LAST place I would want to be since I know that they are not set up to handle patients in severe respiratory distress, or the staff has limited training/knowledge of how to deal with it since it is not what they normally deal with.  Its a bad situation for the companies that own the ships, as well as the crew onboard, and those infected!  Definitely not a situation that I would want to be in if I were still on one of those ships left out there!!! 

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I think there needs to be some level of compassion for those that truthfully need an ER/ICU. Can anyone truly just say sorry can't help you? I'd say at least bring the critically ill off the ship because it's the right thing to do and quarantine the others on the ship. Then proceed with determination from there. 

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1 hour ago, monctonguy said:

They should seek financial help from those countries too.....they avoid registering in the US..although 90%(?) of their cruises originate in the US....now they will want the US to bail them out..

 

 

It is a complex, but mutually beneficial relationship. Headquarters in the US, thousands of employees, hotel, airline, restaurant impacts along with ports, dock workers, local suppliers etc, balanced against foreign registration, regulations, taxes, etc.  Perhaps all of this will give all involved an opportunity to upgrade those relationships and we may even see some US registered ships when this is over.

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It's a catch 22, and I wish the CG would make a recommendation to send ships to Jacksonville, Charleston or elsewhere up the coast where the population density isn't as high. I am certain those HAL ships are small enough to fit in those harbors. I think the HAL ships are flagged in the Netherlands, and I would think the closest port that would even consider them would be Sint Maarten, which I bet couldn't handle a lot of critical patients.

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Here's some information why vessels are flagged in another country:

Working for a cruise line which is registered under a flag other than the American can be complicated, especially when there is a need to address certain rights, such as workman's compensation, discrimination, abuse and/or harassment, as well as other work related issues and problems.

    In the entire cruise line industry there is only one cruise line company which has its ships registered under the American flag, all others are registered in foreign countries such as Panama which are more lenient with big corporations, but not to individual employees.

    The Cruise Lines International Association explains the reason behind the fact that 90% of the cruise liners register their ships under a foreign flags due to the “capabilities of the flag to deliver the services needed; representation and reputation of the flag in the international shipping community; the performance of the flag state, which dictates how a ship is prioritized by port states; the pool of seafarers able to meet the need of the flag; and the flag’s fees/charges and taxes.”

    Many cruise line companies deem that the regulations which follow registration under the U.S. flag are unattractive, therefore they lean towards a country which has regulations and laws which benefit the company and its operation. Some claim that the corporations which sail under a foreign flag do so simply to avoid the American safety and consumer protection regulations and laws. The Federal Maritime Commission also understands and acknowledges this fact by giving the following statement “it is important to know that the Commission has no authority over: passenger line vessel operations, safety issues, amenities onboard vessels or fare levels.”

NCL'S  Pride of America is the only current ship that is flagged in the USA, which means it can sail directly from one US port to another and not have to port in a foreign country. Suppose that's why it's the only ship that sails around Hawaii and not have to leave the islands. Wish Royal would do this, especially for the Alaska season it could stop at an extra port in Alaska instead of going to Canada. 

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3 hours ago, Ogilthorpe said:

It is a complex, but mutually beneficial relationship. Headquarters in the US, thousands of employees, hotel, airline, restaurant impacts along with ports, dock workers, local suppliers etc, balanced against foreign registration, regulations, taxes, etc.  Perhaps all of this will give all involved an opportunity to upgrade those relationships and we may even see some US registered ships when this is over.

No corporation should get a bailout, that's tax payers money...that's not capitalism/free market. Especially, corporation that does not pay taxes, into the system, that they want access to. Get a loan, like a few have been forced to do...try being slightly more conservative in investment methods, build expendable capital(savings), don't become so leveraged up, and pay as much on principle loans as possible. However, we have not been in a capitalist/free market economy, in a long while; so, I guess what I'm saying is really a mute point. 

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13 minutes ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

No corporation should get a bailout, that's tax payers money...that's not capitalism/free market. Especially, corporation that does not pay taxes, into the system, that they want access to. Get a loan, like a few have been forced to do...try being slightly more conservative in investment methods, build expendable capital(savings), don't become so leveraged up, and pay as much on principle loans as possible. However, we have not been in a capitalist/free market economy, in a long while; so, I guess what I'm saying is really a mute point. 

To be fair the stimulus package ONLY cover US flagged ships, Royal has already mentioned it doesn't qualify for any monies from the stimulus package. That's why it took out a backup loan. Guess only NCL would qualify as their one ship has been flagged under the USA since 2005.

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While I agree that I don't want my tax dollars and future debt of the country inflated to bailout non-US companies, the refusal to offer medical aid to a ship is another matter.

For centuries ships of many flags have sailed the seas.  Merchant vessels have long sought medical assistance when passengers or crew become ill.  The long standing tradition has been to offer medical assistance regardless of the flag on the vessel.

It goes to show just how desperate the situation is in America when they have to refuse to offer medical assistance for ship crew or passengers.  That is particular eye-opening when there are U.S. citizens involved.   At the state level it was blocked to ensure limited resources were reserved for state residents then at the local level when it became apparent that Florida residents were on board, local counties interceded to ensure local resources were reserved for local county residents. Desperate times indeed.

The U.S. wasn't alone in refusing medical assistance.  Many countries along the ship's route did the same. 

Right or wrong isn't important.  The fact that Florida is so ill prepared is eye opening.  Not that Florida is the only state not prepared for this so that isn't important either.  The important takeaway during this extreme medical situation is - do not venture far from home.    I can't afford to find myself vacationing somewhere where I might be turned away from a hospital in my hour of need because I'm not a resident of that state.

Sadly since this won't be over until a vaccine is available I'll have to cancel roughly a dozen Florida based cruises.  I can't afford to find myself having a non-virus emergency medical need only to be told that since I am not a Floridian I will be turned away in my hour of need.   I don't blame Florida for this, few states are truly prepared for this but the result is the same - don't venture from my home state to ensure access to medical resources. 

Here's hoping by 2022 or 2023 we can return to a place we can travel beyond state lines.  Until then it's looking like staying close to home is the smart play.

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8 hours ago, Matt31 said:

I think there needs to be some level of compassion for those that truthfully need an ER/ICU. Can anyone truly just say sorry can't help you? I'd say at least bring the critically ill off the ship because it's the right thing to do and quarantine the others on the ship. Then proceed with determination from there. 

Those two ships are now docked in Fort Lauderdale.

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