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RC asks to Delay Galveston Terminal


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On 3/29/2020 at 6:43 PM, wordell1 said:

https://www.galvnews.com/news/free/article_3110ec89-1a5f-5cc1-a4f6-2d81dad146af.html

 

Not good if you are booked on Allure out of Galveston (I am for March 2022)

I’m booked on Nov 2021 Allure,   I’d posted this also in the Royal Caribbean Discussion thread.    Looks like we will both have canceled cruises   
 

 

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It makes sense that this would be a cut. Might as we'll finish the refurb on Allure and other ships that they've more or less already paid for and delay the new port building since it's not even really started. They have to prioritize somewhere and prioritization of improving assets they already have makes sense to me

 

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I got a feeling there will be more of these type announcements and repositioning of ships as they deal with all of this. Even once cruising does start back, we are going to see scaled back options for the next couple of years and higher prices. Not a pretty picture at all.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/13/2020 at 10:49 PM, SpeedNoodles said:

4/13/21

"A decision about whether to give Royal Caribbean Cruises more time to fully commit to building a third terminal in Galveston will wait another two weeks, the Galveston Wharves Board of Trustees decided Monday."

https://www.galvnews.com/news/free/article_48caa8ab-1a9b-5216-9e98-7a1ace114e9d.html


thank you for the update !

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6 hours ago, stevendom57 said:

Is there any possibility for Galveston to deepen the port, allowing for Allure OTS to reach the dock and use the existing RC terminal? Or is Allure just too large for that?

I'm not sure how they could do this without shutting down the whole channel. It's a relatively narrow waterway that's not directly open to the ocean, so the equipment may block all marine traffic through there to deepen the area.

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1 hour ago, melmar02 said:

I'm not sure how they could do this without shutting down the whole channel. It's a relatively narrow waterway that's not directly open to the ocean, so the equipment may block all marine traffic through there to deepen the area.

I understand that it will block other traffic but it will do that when they build the new terminal eventually, right? Or is the new terminal to be in a different location?

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55 minutes ago, stevendom57 said:

I understand that it will block other traffic but it will do that when they build the new terminal eventually, right? Or is the new terminal to be in a different location?

The new terminal is closer to Seawolf Park, but that's a great question. @Galveston Steve posted these maps on another thread. It looks like the new terminal will be right where the channel starts to open up, so they may have enough room to leave it open to some traffic. I'm not sure how much they'll need to dig out. According to the Port of Galveston's website, they dredge it annually to maintain a 45 foot depth. https://www.portofgalveston.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=99 Hopefully they if they need to go deeper it could be done during that planned operation.

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14 hours ago, melmar02 said:

The new terminal is closer to Seawolf Park, but that's a great question. @Galveston Steve posted these maps on another thread. It looks like the new terminal will be right where the channel starts to open up, so they may have enough room to leave it open to some traffic. I'm not sure how much they'll need to dig out. According to the Port of Galveston's website, they dredge it annually to maintain a 45 foot depth. https://www.portofgalveston.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=99 Hopefully they if they need to go deeper it could be done during that planned operation.

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In addition to the depth, I believe the turning basin will also need to be widened for an Oasis class ship to make the 180 degree turn 

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Galveston's Port Director will present his monthly report to the Board of Trustees on Tuesday.    There are some very interesting items in the report:

  • The Port is working with Royal Caribbean on the possibility of receiving Anthem of the Seas at the current Cruise Terminal 2
  • A decision on approving Royal Caribbean's request to delay the new Terminal 3 by one year is on the agenda
    • Target completion date would now be September 1, 2022
    • Royal Caribbean management has reiterated that Galveston is an integral part of Royal's strategic plan
  • Cruise Terminal 3 progress is continuing even during the Covid-19 crisis:
    • City of Galveston has approved the building permit for the cruise terminal building
    • Phase II Environmental Site Assessment shows no significant concerns
    • Utilities design is ongoing and will be complete in June. 
    • Roadway layout is under development and traffic study simulations are being incorporated 
    • Ready to issue a contract for wharf repair design work
    • Construction work is ongoing to relocate existing operations to make way for Terminal 3
  • The conceptual plan for the East End Cruise Corridor (shown below) includes not only the new Royal Caribbean Terminal 3, but an additional 4th cruise terminal at the current Del Monte terminal.

778154263_ScreenShot2020-04-26at6_38_02PM.thumb.png.b6022ca91e4e44eb85f77a00fe6b90c4.png

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10 minutes ago, Galveston Steve said:

Galveston's Port Director will present his monthly report to the Board of Trustees on Tuesday.    There are some very interesting items in the report:

  • The Port is working with Royal Caribbean on the possibility of receiving Anthem of the Seas at the current Cruise Terminal 

 

That is pretty interesting.  I wonder when they were thinking that would be.  Would they cancel the currently scheduled Anthem cruises in late 2021/early 2022, or would it be May 2022+ (when the ship might have went back to the UK for the summer)?

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6 minutes ago, karl_nj said:

 

That is pretty interesting.  I wonder when they were thinking that would be.  Would they cancel the currently scheduled Anthem cruises in late 2021/early 2022, or would it be May 2022+ (when the ship might have went back to the UK for the summer)?

I'm assuming that with all the Coronavirus turmoil it would fill the gap due to the impending 1-year delay in Galveston's Cruise Terminal 3, so from late 2021 to late 2022.  But that's just my opinion.

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26 minutes ago, Galveston Steve said:

? It’s Official ? Port of Galveston voted this afternoon to allow Royal Caribbean a one year delay in building Cruise Terminal 3. New target completion date is September 1, 2022. Neither the Port nor Royal Caribbean wanted to cancel the contract and felt the best option was the one year delay.

Anything more about that bullet point re: Anthem?

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1 hour ago, Galveston Steve said:

? It’s Official ? Port of Galveston voted this afternoon to allow Royal Caribbean a one year delay in building Cruise Terminal 3. New target completion date is September 1, 2022. Neither the Port nor Royal Caribbean wanted to cancel the contract and felt the best option was the one year delay.

Good news...i didn't think the contract would be voided anyways...but like you said, at least now the delay is official...they can proceed forward.

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Is it just the terminal that can't accommodate Allure in Galveston, or is there something about the physical landscape of the pier/channel that prohibits it as well? (Asking because there's a "discussion" on a FB page saying that it would just be "inconvenient" for the current terminal to accommodate that many passengers but they'd find a way.

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2 hours ago, SpeedNoodles said:

Is it just the terminal that can't accommodate Allure in Galveston, or is there something about the physical landscape of the pier/channel that prohibits it as well? (Asking because there's a "discussion" on a FB page saying that it would just be "inconvenient" for the current terminal to accommodate that many passengers but they'd find a way.

The current terminal is designed for 1,500 passengers per hour in each direction (embarking/disembarking), and the Port refers to its capacity as a 5,000 passenger terminal. Liberty and Anthem can each carry just under 5,000 passengers, while Allure's capacity is 6,780.  I think it would be very crowded but it might be done with some adjustments, such as passenger arrival timing, installation of facial recognition for Customs and Border Protection, etc.  Before the current terminal was expanded a few years ago they set up a large air conditioned tent to handle the overflow, for example.

The channel depth all the way in to the pier is 46 feet, so that's not an issue.  There are a few areas of the channel that will be dredged this year to maintain that depth.  The pier is a 1,000 foot pier, which would be a little short but the aft could extend a bit to the west, so I do believe Allure could physically fit alongside.  I believe the limiting factor may be the mooring bollards which may be under-designed to safely handle the wind load of such a large ship.  This was an issue when Liberty of the Seas came to Galveston and they had to add additional mooring bollards to accommodate her.

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  • 1 month later...

I was scheduled to take Allure OTS out of Galveston in Feb 2022. I found out a few days ago that Liberty OTS is going to stay in Galveston and my cruise was transferred to her. I like Liberty, sailed on her once, but I really wanted to take an Oasis class ship.

I know that no one has a crystal ball but is RC / Port of Galveston still likely to build the new terminal? I know that they have announced that they will, albeit a year late, but how likely is it to actually occur?  I am assuming that once the terminal is ready then RC will move an Oasis class ship here (otherwise, why bother building the new terminal).

What is the current thinking of all of you crystal ball gazers? Cruise on Liberty, fly to Florida for an Oasis, or bide my time and do both out of Galveston?

TIA

Steven

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2 hours ago, steverk said:

My crystal ball hasn't been real reliable lately, but it says Galveston really wants to become the 3rd largest cruise port in the United states. They need the terminal to do it. 

Then they really need to find some more varied ports. I would really like it if they had longer cruises, maybe go all the way to the eastern Caribbean.

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4 hours ago, steverk said:

My crystal ball hasn't been real reliable lately, but it says Galveston really wants to become the 3rd largest cruise port in the United states. They need the terminal to do it. 

Canaveral numbers look bigger but they include transient ships that use PC as a port of call.  I'd love to see those stripped from PC to see a better comparison to Galveston.  Canaveral also benefits from having Oasis class there which is like having two Carnival ships.  Once Oasis class does make it to Galveston those numbers will shrink the gap between it and PC.

1 hour ago, stevendom57 said:

Then they really need to find some more varied ports. I would really like it if they had longer cruises, maybe go all the way to the eastern Caribbean.

Galveston is my closest cruise port but still a flight away,  I too would like to see more variety but Royal and especially Oasis class is geared for the quintessential 7 night vacation based on an American work week and vacation.  Once you require people to burn more than one week of vacation it shrinks the market considerably.   That works better on small ships since they are are easier to fill from a smaller market.  For large ships though, they need to keep the market as large as possible to stand any chance of filling the ship.

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On 6/11/2020 at 11:17 PM, twangster said:

Oasis class is geared for the quintessential 7 night vacation

@twangster I have heard this said about the Oasis ships before. How are the Oasis class ships geared towards week long cruises more than the other class of ships?

I really want to sail on an Oasis class ship in the Caribbean. I am going to put this off until April of 2021. I know all of the Oasis ships are incredible but I was looking forward to Allure after it's amping. Now that the amping is not going to occur and the fact that I am going to have to fly to sail on one, which is the biggest and baddest of them all? I have sailed on Mariner and Liberty and thoroughly enjoyed both of them, now I want something even better!!

TIA

Steven

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@stevendom57  Although I am not @twangster I would venture a guess is because Oasis class offers much more. You have a Broadway caliber show, aquatheater, neighborhoods, escape room, bumper cars and ice skating. Not to mention all the standard bells and whistles plus a myriad of restaurants. You would need at least seven days to get your footing, probably won't make a dent in the offerings when you are heavy on ports.

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1 hour ago, stevendom57 said:

@twangster I have heard this said about the Oasis ships before. How are the Oasis class ships geared towards week long cruises more than the other class of ships?

Two aspects come to mind. 

The first is operational in nature.

Oasis class is more than just a ship, it's program and choreography.  Once it's up and fully in motion it's designed to maximize revenue by repeating the same movements week after week after week.  To scale operations to the number of guests while still turning the ship in this same amount of time it takes to turn a much smaller ship they can only achieve that by strictly following the same routine week after week.  

Smaller ships are more adaptable to variance.  Operating on an 8/6 rotation or 9/5 rotation where one week it's an 8 night cruise and the following cruise is a 6 night cruise works for many ships but you don't reach maximum efficiency and it introduces operational differences that are more impactful as ships grow larger.   

Can Oasis class do other rotations?  Sure, in theory any ship can.  However they maximize revenue through streamlining and repeating the same steps over and over.    So it's not that Oasis can't do them, it's that they aren't as efficient in terms of maximizing revenue and that is what Oasis class is - a giant perpetual revenue generating engine that works best when it repeats, repeats and repeats over and over again.  

On the recent Allure transatlantic there were signs of this in subtle ways.  Coastal Kitchen became a little discombobulated on day 8 and beyond.  They were a machine that ran smoothly until a wrench was thrown into the machine by having a day 8 and a day 9 and a day 10 - things they hadn't had to deal with in years.   The backstage crew work in different shows.  Normally they have the routine down week after week.  Tuesday is this show, Wednesday is that show.  Suddenly that's not the plan anymore.  It seems simple enough, just add an extra show or move a show from day 6 to day 8, but it messes with momentum which reduces operational efficiency which reduces revenue.  

The second is all about filling the ship.  It's a tall order trying to sell out any ship.  As ships grow larger it's more challenging.  To fill a mega ship they need to cast a wide net meaning the target market has to be as big as possible.  In America it's easy enough for most working class people to secure a one week vacation.  From someone in their late 20's or thirties early in their career to first responders to senior management it's generally pretty easy to secure one week off.  Not everyone can push that into a second week.  Some companies don't make it as easy to extend that time off into another week even if it isn't a full second week.  Some people early in their career don't get that much time off and they may want to keep some time off for other things like visiting with family.  They don't want to burn 100% of their annual PTO with one vacation.  

As you start to move past a 7 night cruise you reduce the target market of people who will consider booking that cruise.  For smaller ships that isn't a big deal.  For a mega ship that could be the difference between an 75% load and a 95% load.  That's significant for a huge machine designed to generate maximum revenue week after week after week.  

To look at this in the extreme, look at cruise lines who run month long or "world cruises".  They don't do those on mega ships, they do them on smaller ships where they are more likely to fill the ship given the very small target market of guests who can put life aside for 30+ days and go on a cruise that is that long.  

The 3/4 night cruise is well suited to a specific target market and works well in Florida.

The 7 night is the quintessential American vacation that the majority in this target audience can or are willing to allocate to a single vacation.  

Oasis class was designed and the business plan was written around the 7 day cruise market segment.  They make it work there by streamlining everything to that week after week repeating schedule.  

That's why they tend to keep Oasis class on 7 night itineraries.  

 

1 hour ago, stevendom57 said:

Now that the amping is not going to occur and the fact that I am going to have to fly to sail on one, which is the biggest and baddest of them all? I have sailed on Mariner and Liberty and thoroughly enjoyed both of them, now I want something even better!!

I firmly believe everyone should do Oasis class at least once.  They are in a class all their own.  No other cruise line offers anything like them.  Even other lines that offer ships with more than 4,000 guests it's not about the capacity or how many beds are on the ship.  Oasis class ships have features that no other ships from any cruise line do.    

I would recommend all of them including Allure.  I was just on Allure's last revenue cruise before she was supposed to be AMPED and she is still in great shape.  The only reason to not pick Allure would be slides.  If you or your party want water slides it's the only Oasis class ship without them since the AMP was delayed.  In some ways picking Allure makes a lot of sense since if you love them as much as many of us do, then you've got a reason to book Oasis, Harmony or Symphony (like any of us really need an excuse to book another cruise ? ).  There are subtle differences to explore like different Broadway shows on each of them.  Next, some ships have different specialty restaurants. That's getting really particular and I'd never tell someone to book a ship just because of one restaurant.    Other than that they are all great ships more the same at the core than they are different.

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Thank you both @Ampurp85 and @twangster. Everything was going great, an amped Allure out of Galveston with no flying required. What could be better. I had it booked. Now, COVID has trashed two of my vacations. Oh well, it could be worse. At least I don't have COVID.

Thanks to both of you for your info.

Steven

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