twangster Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-cruise-industry-proposes-travel-ban-for-people-over-70.html The proposal would restrict people over the age of 70 from getting on a ship unless they can provide written consent from a doctor, the sources said. CLIA submitted the response to the White House in the wake of the meeting with the VP over the weekend. Baked Alaska and Rene Desmarais 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 A passenger received this letter from the VP of NCL today, it was posted in one of my FB cruising groups. I wonder if Royal is planning to send out something similar soon. shaydav19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSLC5 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, accio7 said: A passenger received this letter from the VP of NCL today, it was posted in one of my FB cruising groups. I wonder if Royal is planning to send out something similar soon. I think Yes.. Vicky Freed Vice President of Sales and deals with travel agents did a webcast on Tuesday and said this was proposed to the White House on Tuesday.. So I am pretty sure that yes this is going to go forward. Basically it requires people over 70 to get a form filled out by a doctor saying they are not sick and fit to cruise. accio7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie Blake Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 So if we are over 70, do we need to provide a health certificate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Bonnie Blake said: So if we are over 70, do we need to provide a health certificate? At this point Royal hasn't officially adopted the proposal. I think they are waiting to see how the White House responds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 MSC has now issued restrictions for their guests over 70 years of age and also includes travel ban restrictions disclosed last night: Quote Starting Saturday, March 14, 2020, for all ships leaving Miami, we are further elevating our health measures, in line with the recommendation of the Cruise Line Association and the USA Government, therefore we will deny boarding for: All guests with severe chronic medical condition (heart disease, diabetes, lung disease) as specified by the U.S. CDC All guests 70 years of age or older at embarkation date or who turn 70 within the duration of the cruise, unless provided written verification from their qualified treating physician certifying no severe chronic medical conditions and otherwise fit for the cruise - We have already started thermal temperature check at all ports & gangway - We have already started weekly health screening for all crew members Important for European guests bound to the USA: Entry in USA is closed to most foreign nationals who have been in certain European countries at any point during the 14 days prior to their scheduled arrival to the United States. These countries include: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. This does not apply to legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation. This restriction comes into effect at 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020 and is expected to be in place for at least 30 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 I still don’t see how they can enforce #2. How would they possibly know whether I have any of those medical conditions or not ? That’s a silly condition to place when they have no way of enforcing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen2 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Point is safety for crew and passenger - even the over-70 being singled out. Question becomes: will this become permanent after (hopefully there is an after) the corona virus has been tamed? We had three b2b which now are cancelled, and we now see more and more ports denying entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy2cruise Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 (My opinion only since many 70+ year olds are healthier than much younger people) In a perfect world, all passengers and crew would need written consent from their physician. We, however, do not live in a perfect world. Neesa, WAAAYTOOO and PAJ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said: I still don’t see how they can enforce #2. How would they possibly know whether I have any of those medical conditions or not ? That’s a silly condition to place when they have no way of enforcing it. Just sent a tweet to MSC Cruises and asked them whether there is a health form available to submit prior to boarding. My instinct is yes and similar to the one required by NCL. The other cruise lines can't be too far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 I wonder if this questionnaire has to be signed a HCP. If not, no reason to think people would be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, WAAAYTOOO said: I wonder if this questionnaire has to be signed a HCP. If not, no reason to think people would be honest. Not sure if you opened the link, but, yes, there is a space for a medical practitioner's signature, registration number, and a stamp of identification at the bottom. The practitioner's name, facility name is listed at the top. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, accio7 said: Not sure if you opened the link, but, yes, there is a space for a medical practitioner's signature, registration number, and a stamp of identification at the bottom. The practitioner's name, facility name is listed at the top. You got me. I did not. Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 I guess I thought that was going to be for those over 70. I guess we just don’t know what’s going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cez Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 An interesting way to eliminate a large number of pinnacle members - big saving on those extra perks. RWDW1204 and Mljstr 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose City Cruiser Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 I totally understand why they are doing this but..... this is like getting a sick note for work but the other way around. It will affect wait times and appointment availability for those who are actually sick and need to see their Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferramc Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Does anyone know if MSC is refunding $ (vs issuing FCC) to denied passengers under the new criteria? Hoping RCCL might eventually do the same if they implement a similar policy. Things are getting really crazy with many cancellations in so many industries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAJ Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 19 hours ago, Bonnie Blake said: So if we are over 70, do we need to provide a health certificate? wait and see - we have been on many cruises (Diamond - one cruse away from Diamond Plus) and spent lots of money - if that is the case we can spend our money someplace else - we have seen people that have to turn sideways to get in a door - do they need a health certificate? I guess we will discriminate against people for the good of who? Mljstr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mljstr Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 There are plenty of people with those conditions who are controlled and in good health, my husband and myself being two. It would put the kabash on jumping in the car and driving to a close port on short notice. What doctor wants to go out on a limb in case you have a heart attack on the ship and sue him for malpractice? I agree with PAJ! How many others have diabetes or heart disease and are under 70? Age discrimination! SpeedNoodles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 @WAAAYTOOO FYI https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020/03/12/royal-caribbean-bans-guests-age-70-or-older-due-coronavirus-pandemic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferramc Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 So, I was ok with how Royal was handling things until this latest announcement. Now they tell me I can’t cruise due to a chronic condition, but will still keep my money? If my $ isn’t refunded and I’m forced to take FCC, I will never cruise with Royal again, once I use the FCC. Not only will they get the value of holding my $ for at least a year, prices for 2021 are ridiculously high compared to this year so I get less value for the same amount of money. I know it’s a long shot but I’m hoping someone at royal reads this and similar posts and changes their mind re refunds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 Here comes the "class action age discrimination" law suits. RCCL should state it's a "health ban" and not target individuals only who are over 70 years old. This would avoid alot of litigation as those Florida attorneys are already revving up for a class action lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 If you listen to Goldstein's TV interview he sort of lays this at the feet of Pence. He suggests it was offered by the White House an idea of something the cruise lines could offer to do during their meeting. Goldstein left Royal and is now CLIA exclusively. CLIA offered this to the White House. The cruise lines are following CLIA. Age discrimination came to mind. Should be interesting to see how this plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 I can almost see it now. The traffic jam of golf carts (because they lost their licenses because they're unsafe to drive) coming from the 55 and over, no children allowed community, going to the court house to file their age discrimination law suit. Sounds reasonable to me. princevaliantus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim S Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 I received an email this morning from RCCL stating that from Monday March 16th all persons aged 70 or older need to obtain doctors certification that they are fit to cruise before being allowed onboard. They issued the following template letter to take to my doctor for, would you believe, my cruise on Jewel of the Seas on Monday March 16th, which was cancelled a couple of days ago. By the way, it takes 2-3 weeks to get such a letter from my doctor and they charge £30 for this. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjweber3 Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 My wife and I are 70+. We both have conditions listed in the medical certification. But it asks the HCP to say that this person "does not suffer from any chronic illness (e.g. heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS or diabetes) which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)/COVID-19." What HCP is going to certify this? The potential liability is tremendous. So, we cancelled our Majesty cruise for 28 March from NO. If anyone needs a nice 1BR Grand Suite, there is one available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princevaliantus Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 32 minutes ago, rjweber3 said: My wife and I are 70+. We both have conditions listed in the medical certification. But it asks the HCP to say that this person "does not suffer from any chronic illness (e.g. heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS or diabetes) which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)/COVID-19." What HCP is going to certify this? The potential liability is tremendous. So, we cancelled our Majesty cruise for 28 March from NO. If anyone needs a nice 1BR Grand Suite, there is one available. To clarify why they want HCP to certify as you can have a certain listed condition but it may not be chronic but might be acute: - Acute conditions are severe and sudden in onset. This could describe anything from a broken bone to an asthma attack. - Chronic condition, by contrast is a long-developing syndrome, such as osteoporosis or asthma. ** Note that osteoporosis, a chronic condition, may cause a broken bone, an acute condition. Hope this helps clarify things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Ogre Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Jim S said: I received an email this morning from RCCL stating that from Monday March 16th all persons aged 70 or older need to obtain doctors certification that they are fit to cruise before being allowed onboard. They issued the following template letter to take to my doctor for, would you believe, my cruise on Jewel of the Seas on Monday March 16th, which was cancelled a couple of days ago. By the way, it takes 2-3 weeks to get such a letter from my doctor and they charge £30 for this. I had a patient this morning present this to me at his appointment. accio7, SpeedNoodles and Allen2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim S Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Jolly Ogre said: I had a patient this morning present this to me at his appointment. I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. SpeedNoodles, JLMoran and accio7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNoodles Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jim S said: I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. So sorry. Jim S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Ogre Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Jim S said: I took the letter to my doctor today and he refused to sign it. He had no problem in confirming that I was not suffering from any of the listed chronic illnesses but he said he could not attest to me being fit to travel on a cruise ship since the UK government had issued guidance to all over 70’s advising not to travel on a cruise ship. Looks like I will not be allowed to travel on our March 23 cruise. Sorry to hear that. We have to evaluate our pts individually and when we do things like this it is not because we don't care, its because we do care. PRebecca, Jim S, JLMoran and 1 other 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jolly Ogre said: Sorry to hear that. We have to evaluate our pts individually and when we do things like this it is not because we don't care, its because we do care. You sound like a great physician and human being, Dr. Ogre, I loved what you said. Thank you My sister is a nurse, so I have the upmost respect for people who work in health care. Jim S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Jolly Ogre said: I had a patient this morning present this to me at his appointment. Without violating any confidentiality issues, can you tell us how you handled it ? I would think that it would be difficult, much like @Jim S said, to make such a broad statement. Interesting, from the Physician’s perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWDW1204 Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 I guess this is moot at this point? Or thinking maybe continue this after they resume operations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Ogre Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 3:17 PM, WAAAYTOOO said: Without violating any confidentiality issues, can you tell us how you handled it ? I would think that it would be difficult, much like @Jim S said, to make such a broad statement. Interesting, from the Physician’s perspective. We have to evaluate our pts individually and make decisions on a case by case basis. In his case he was ok to travel, however RCCL has canceled his cruise now, so the point is moot. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price drop - No refund or Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 OK, here's a probability for me (72 yrs old with mild COPD). We're booked for April 26 and I know my Doctor will not accept liability by signing a letter stating that I'm not at risk. So RCCL gives me a FCC. If my Doctor won't sign now, it's even less likely he'll sign in the future. What good is a FCC if you're never able to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 This is just a personal opinion....based on nothing more than common sense. It is my belief that the "Dr. note" scenario will quietly slip away. It might have sounded like a reasonable plan when some bean counter devised it, but honestly, it's not workable. As you said, MOST doctors are not going to declare that a passenger is "fit to cruise" - there's no way to truly verify that. What does it even mean ? It's too broad of a declaration. If they quietly change the form to remove that declaration and only ask the HCP to verify any chronic ongoing health issues, it might work. Then the passenger could sign a statement not to hold the cruise line liable (I also realize those are not worth the paper they are printed on) and leave it at that. There is always risk for both the passenger and the cruise line. Ship happens. But this Dr. note thing is not workable in the big scheme. IMO. Is this REALLY the time to be asking HCP to sign silly waivers for cruisers ? I think they have waaay more important things to do right now. PattiHere, Ogilthorpe, rjac and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshleyDillo Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 2 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said: This is just a personal opinion....based on nothing more than common sense. It is my belief that the "Dr. note" scenario will quietly slip away. It might have sounded like a reasonable plan when some bean counter devised it, but honestly, it's not workable. I thought the doctor note thing was devised by the CLIA to appease the government so they could continue to operate. I can see it going away eventually as the situation improves and life goes back to normal, but it may linger a bit even after cruising resumes to, again, appease the government so they can start back up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 41 minutes ago, AshleyDillo said: I thought the doctor note thing was devised by the CLIA to appease the government so they could continue to operate. I can see it going away eventually as the situation improves and life goes back to normal, but it may linger a bit even after cruising resumes to, again, appease the government so they can start back up again. That is also what I have read....so it may have to be "OKed" by the CLIA to get it removed. I still think it is completely impractical and a bit discriminatory. RWDW1204 and PattiHere 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjac Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said: I still think it is completely impractical and a bit discriminatory Me too! I'm over 70, so I'm going to cancel my three cruises this year, take my ball and go home. I'll show the bastards........ RWDW1204 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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