Zambia-Zaire Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 https://www.fox5ny.com/news/royal-caribbean-increases-borrowing-capacity-by-550-million-to-stay-afloat It make much more sense now, why they raised prices for cruises after the "Cruise With Confidence" deadline of July 31, 2020 in conjunction with Future Cruise Credit(FCC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accio7 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Be thankful that Royal did not put up one of their ships as collateral like NCL did with Epic: https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/nclh-secures-additional-675m-liquidity-amid-coronavirus-uncertainty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 I wonder how much credit the got for Epic ? Probably not much. What a crappy ship ! Deedeelynn, SpeedNoodles, AshleyDillo and 3 others 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceC Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said: I wonder how much credit the got for Epic ? Probably not much. What a crappy ship ! $675 million bhageerah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, VinceC said: $675 million They’re probably secretly hoping that the insurance company forecloses and takes it away. Just kidding Brobbins246, AshleyDillo, sk8erguy1978 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 That's very interesting....NCL is one of the smallest of the Major Cruise Line Corps; so, in many ways, they were probably the most likely to be the 1st, to leverage some of their holdings. I remember reading sometime ago, around 5 or 6 yrs ago, why NCL pull back on continue developing of the Epic class of ship...they were not happy with that class. I suspect the Epic was their largest holding, that they could leverage, that they was more than willing, to gamble & possible loose. I would have been completely surprise if Royal had take such a move...even with one of their most least profitable or older holding, outside of Empress, Majesty, & Enchantment, or some combination there of. Royal, Imho, no doubt, is in the best position to weather this storm...which in some ways is still surprising, they would expand/increase their loans by another $550Mil. Those guys are very business savvy & have a pretty sound assessment, of their strength and position in the market. This move maybe more about staying ahead of the curve, moving forward(futures market), than something more presently dire. DaiC01 and WAAAYTOOO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 I could be wrong but my understanding is that they are expanding their line of credit. That is not the same as borrowing the money, although potentially they could. Interest rates are at historic lows. It might be a good ideA to use that credit line to pay off more expensive debt. That's what I would do. Paige, Baked Alaska, Tanner and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAYTOOO Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, BB1 said: I could be wrong but my understanding is that they are expanding their line of credit. That is not the same as borrowing the money, although potentially they could. Interest rates are at historic lows. It might be a good ideA to use that credit line to pay off more expensive debt. That's what I would do. This is my understanding as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, BB1 said: I could be wrong but my understanding is that they are expanding their line of credit. That is not the same as borrowing the money, although potentially they could. Interest rates are at historic lows. It might be a good ideA to use that credit line to pay off more expensive debt. That's what I would do. LoL...that's what a LoC is. It's just a revolving loan....reasons why I said "Expand/Increase" DaiC01 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Sorry, your topic states Royal Caribbean borrows to stay afloat. That didn't seem to match the situation. It has an air of desperation that may or may not be warranted. TXcruzer and Baked Alaska 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 That's the problem when you copy click bait sensationalized headlines. They misrepresent the situation. This seems to be big cause of the exaggerated hysteria right now. Paige, Zeashore and TXcruzer 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, BB1 said: Sorry, your topic states Royal Caribbean borrows to stay afloat. That didn't seem to match the situation. It has an air of desperation that may or may not be warranted. 15 minutes ago, BB1 said: That's the problem when you copy click bait sensationalized headlines. They misrepresent the situation. This seems to be big cause of the exaggerated hysteria right now. I did not copy & paste...I did give a brief account of their article title, just to keep from having a long title for this thread. I understand your frustration with the media...there is no doubt the media is sensationalizing the situation; however, that does not change the fact, there is a "Real Situation" occurring around the globe...so it's not an "Exaggeration" at least, not to me. I would advise people to really try to keep their emotion down as best as possible(I know we all are different), and just look at thing as they are, and follow up with sound personal decisions & interpretation of information. When one let their emotions take over & rule the day, regardless of what side one stand on, is when panic & unfound chaos occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tydas Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 RCL has lost over 2/3 of its market cap and the short term future looks very bleak as they will find it hard to maintain high occupancy on their ships..I don't think it is an exaggeration to say the entire cruise industry is in uncharted waters at this point. I am hoping more than anyone that this blows over but even many avid cruisers are cancelling their vacations right now. accio7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Curtis Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 It seems like a good,time to buy some stock in some of the cruise lines,ride it out, cruising is a hot industry and things will pass. With that being said, Royal has spent so much on being bigger and better and taken small things away from the customer . Cruising 20 years ago was just simpler and better in my opinion. Baked Alaska and WAAAYTOOO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWDW1204 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, WAAAYTOOO said: I wonder how much credit the got for Epic ? Probably not much. What a crappy ship ! Wow! Tell us how you really feel!! WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinFC Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 hours ago, accio7 said: Be thankful that Royal did not put up one of their ships as collateral like NCL did with Epic: https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/nclh-secures-additional-675m-liquidity-amid-coronavirus-uncertainty Wow, hopefully the cruise lines recover quickly things get back to normal soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobroo Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 I have been concerned for months about the continual RCL spending and bragging they use as advertisement: $250M for Coco Cay $300M for a new corporate headquarters $250M to make a new terminal in Miami and make the dock 100 feet longer $165M to revitalize Allure $116M to amplify Freedom $300M for an existing hotel and dock in Freeport and on and on and on........ I mentioned this today on the Insiders FB group and it's worth stating here; I think Royal is in serious trouble because this elephant does not dance to slow music. I think they will dock all the ships until at least September. It will be cheaper to cease operation than try to combat the hostile environment. I think this could very well happen in the next 30 days. accio7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 I think that is highly unlikely but maybe your crystal ball is better than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLMoran Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, bobroo said: I think they will dock all the ships until at least September. Do you mean all the ships under every RCL brand -- Royal, Celebrity, and Azamara? I'd be stunned beyond belief if that happened, especially for that long. Royal by itself? Honestly, I'd be stunned if they docked all of those ships since that's the fleet that caters to the youngest and therefore most resilient crowd Celebrity? God, I hope not. At least not all the way out to September, or there goes my Iceland & Greenland trip that leaves on August 2. Azamara? This one I might believe because of their primary demographic (retired and elderly), who are at greatest risk. But it's also the smallest fleet and probably wouldn't save them much since the ships are all relatively tiny to begin with. Baked Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiC01 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said: LoL...that's what a LoC is. It's just a revolving loan....reasons why I said "Expand/Increase" Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiC01 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 hours ago, accio7 said: Be thankful that Royal did not put up one of their ships as collateral like NCL did with Epic: https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/nclh-secures-additional-675m-liquidity-amid-coronavirus-uncertainty Surely in reality its exactly the same thing, the RC extended credit would be based on company value, assets and current debt {Or its a a personal lone from a very rich friend}. The only difference here is that they haven't committed a particular asset as collateral. If after the team of said credit stream {and they have drawn on the credit} the financial institution can seize any appropriate asset. As some have said perhaps NCL are prepared to sacrifice a ship that has not proven very popular in some markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiC01 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said: https://www.fox5ny.com/news/royal-caribbean-increases-borrowing-capacity-by-550-million-to-stay-afloat It make much more sense now, why they raised prices for cruises after the "Cruise With Confidence" deadline of July 31, 2020 in conjunction with Future Cruise Credit(FCC). Perhaps the security of having "Future Cruise Credits" is not such a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8erguy1978 Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bobroo said: I think they will dock all the ships until at least September. It will be cheaper to cease operation than try to combat the hostile environment. I'm not a financial person but total revenue as of 12/31/2019 is just shy of 11 billion and profit is just shy of 5 billion. They'll weather the storm. Of course having access to a larger line of credit will help keep big projects plugging along while they take the financial impact. In no way do I see them docking any ship. The process to take a boat out of a local marina is a pain (getting it wrapped and all that) imagine a cruise ship! Edited March 11, 2020 by sk8erguy1978 Add that it's 2019 year end numbers. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 6 hours ago, tydas said: RCL has lost over 2/3 of its market cap and the short term future looks very bleak as they will find it hard to maintain high occupancy on their ships..I don't think it is an exaggeration to say the entire cruise industry is in uncharted waters at this point. I am hoping more than anyone that this blows over but even many avid cruisers are cancelling their vacations right now. RCI lost 67% in 2008, so far they are only at 61% but that will change this week. It's not exactly unchartered waters, they managed the last couple of times, they'll weather through again. It's not just cruise industry stock either, the whole market is in the dumps. PS - It'll be something else in 2028 or 2030. This isn't the first and it won't be the last time the stock takes a big hit. Wait for the bottom and start buying when it starts to consistently trend upward. Also, last year when asked about a pending recession that in the winds Royal responded that they won't make the mistake they made last time. Last time they put projects and expansion on hold during the downturn. They stated next time they'll continue with expansion targets taking advantage of softening in shipyard business and the like to turn it into an advantage. RickinSTL, JasonL, accio7 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk8erguy1978 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 11 hours ago, twangster said: RCI lost 67% in 2008, so far they are only at 61% but that will change this week. It's not exactly unchartered waters, they managed the last couple of times, they'll weather through again. It's not just cruise industry stock either, the whole market is in the dumps. PS - It'll be something else in 2028 or 2030. This isn't the first and it won't be the last time the stock takes a big hit. Wait for the bottom and start buying when it starts to consistently trend upward. Also, last year when asked about a pending recession that in the winds Royal responded that they won't make the mistake they made last time. Last time they put projects and expansion on hold during the downturn. They stated next time they'll continue with expansion targets taking advantage of softening in shipyard business and the like to turn it into an advantage. I missed out in 2009 and will not miss out here. I might not buy 100 shares for the OBC offer, but will be considering a few shares to add to my portfolio. To your last point, maybe that's the reason for the line of credit, as my guess, to keep projects moving and customers happy (refunds, etc which will hit bottom lines and publicized come next earnings report). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mworkman Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 RCI could probably sell those private destinations and recoup some money...wouldn't hurt my feelings! Dan Curtis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 15 hours ago, sk8erguy1978 said: I missed out in 2009 and will not miss out here. I might not buy 100 shares for the OBC offer, but will be considering a few shares to add to my portfolio. To your last point, maybe that's the reason for the line of credit, as my guess, to keep projects moving and customers happy (refunds, etc which will hit bottom lines and publicized come next earnings report). 18 hours ago, twangster said: RCI lost 67% in 2008, so far they are only at 61% but that will change this week. It's not exactly unchartered waters, they managed the last couple of times, they'll weather through again. It's not just cruise industry stock either, the whole market is in the dumps. PS - It'll be something else in 2028 or 2030. This isn't the first and it won't be the last time the stock takes a big hit. Wait for the bottom and start buying when it starts to consistently trend upward. Also, last year when asked about a pending recession that in the winds Royal responded that they won't make the mistake they made last time. Last time they put projects and expansion on hold during the downturn. They stated next time they'll continue with expansion targets taking advantage of softening in shipyard business and the like to turn it into an advantage. So I spoke with a friend this morning that was the former Director of Hotels on Oasis. I asked if he’d heard anything about RCCL shutting down. His response: I dont think Royal will at this point but you never know. They laid off some contractors today but other projects like dry dock for Allure still happening. Things will get dicey at the end of the month when ships are due to reposition to Med and Alaska. I think Princess had to as they have had 5 ships impacted and did not stop crew from moving amongst fleet. If I hear anything I will let you know. accio7 and Baked Alaska 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twangster Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Jill said: Princess had to as they have had 5 ships impacted and did not stop crew from moving amongst fleet. If I hear anything I will let you know. In the annals of what could have been done better and lessons learned I think Princess learned a big one with this. It cost a lot of cruise lines a lot of money. But perhaps that was inevitable so who knows? Baked Alaska, Jill and WAAAYTOOO 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Curtis Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 11 hours ago, mworkman said: RCI could probably sell those private destinations and recoup some money...wouldn't hurt my feelings! I tend to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tydas Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 In his last news conference, the president was asked about a bailout for the cruise industry, he said that the cruise industry is very important and they would be looking at options... No doubt rcl will need some help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 Not trying to start a political debate...we all have different pov; however; I feel compelled to say, companies should not be bailed out...that's a poor practice that not only have created a monster & has assimilated itself into culture; but also, has created huge fiscal & corporate, and quite frankly, natural imbalances, so ingrained, that it has created huge, powerful monopolies, that control every aspect of the commoners life....true Capitalism is dead...died a long time ago...I sorely miss it. JLMoran and WAAAYTOOO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcarney Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said: Not trying to start a political debate...we all have different pov; however; I feel compelled to say, companies should not be bailed out...that's a poor practice that not only have created a monster & has assimilated itself into culture; but also, has created huge fiscal & corporate, and quite frankly, natural imbalances, so ingrained, that it has created huge, powerful monopolies, that control every aspect of the commoners life....true Capitalism is dead...died a long time ago...I sorely miss it. I'm a hard core conservative, but in this instance, I do think that the government does have some responsibility in regards to the cruise industry. The auto manufacturers dug their own hole with mismanagement and poor products yet they were "bailed out". The cruise industry, through no fault of their own, ran into headwinds due to COVID-19, and then willingly suspended operations at the behest of our government in defense of our nations health. If that doesn't deserve a helping hand, nothing does. Bean79, monctonguy and RWDW1204 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tydas Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 I think giving rcl some zero interest loans would not be to expensive and hopefully save some us jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambia-Zaire Posted March 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 51 minutes ago, bcarney said: I'm a hard core conservative, but in this instance, I do think that the government does have some responsibility in regards to the cruise industry. The auto manufacturers dug their own hole with mismanagement and poor products yet they were "bailed out". The cruise industry, through no fault of their own, ran into headwinds due to COVID-19, and then willingly suspended operations at the behest of our government in defense of our nations health. If that doesn't deserve a helping hand, nothing does. I get it...your thoughts & all; however, I just have two major reasons why I completely disagree...I simply prefer not to create an ideology/political debate & bog down the blog, because someone may become more than overly enthusiastic about a view or opinion, speaking in general...hot bed issues these days, even with those on similar side of the spectrum. WAAAYTOOO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flacruiser99 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 On 3/14/2020 at 6:01 PM, Zambia-Zaire said: I simply prefer not to create an ideology/political debate & bog down the blog, because someone may become more than overly enthusiastic about a view or opinion Then why did you???? RWDW1204 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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