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Worried about coronavirus


Anastasia

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4 hours ago, gi333 said:

would there be any compensations offered to the travellers for these situations where they are denied boarding? i find it unacceptable that a country is refusing people based on fear and not medical proof.  it seems now that if someone has any virus a country is able to deny docking.... i know i am exagerrating but you see what i mean? can the cruise company insist on the docking port to have a doctor opinion etc or complain about it ?

Of course not, nothing can force a sovereign nation to open its borders to visitors, they don’t owe you an explanation. 

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On 2/26/2020 at 10:42 AM, TXcruzer said:

If you are referring to the MSC ship denied docking at Ocho Rios; it wasn’t due to the flu; it was due to the fact that the ilL crew member had been to a quarantined country within the incubation period. 

That was truly stupid for MSC to let that crew member board the ship till he had finished his quarantine period on land since he traveled from one of the quarantined countries.   They put everyone at jeopardy for one crew member.    I highly doubt RCL will do that!     

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22 minutes ago, sunshine3601 said:

That was truly stupid for MSC to let that crew member board the ship till he had finished his quarantine period on land since he traveled from one of the quarantined countries.   They put everyone at jeopardy for one crew member.    I highly doubt RCL will do that!     

100% agree, Ocho Rios is in the right on this one, MSC really dropped the ball on following what appears to be becoming industry standard. 

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I'm sorry if it's difficult to read but these were the figures sent out from my local hospital. That's the source so I can't guarantee their validity but they don't seem so catastrophic to me. I know it's spreading but at least at this point it seems that the risks are overstated.

Screenshot_20200228-143819_Yahoo Mail.jpg

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4 minutes ago, BB1 said:

I'm sorry if it's difficult to read but these were the figures sent out from my local hospital. That's the source so I can't guarantee their validity but they don't seem so catastrophic to me. I know it's spreading but at least at this point it seems that the risks are overstated.

Screenshot_20200228-143819_Yahoo Mail.jpg

You are right, it isn’t catastrophic, and following the new cases reported worldwide the last 96 hours will show you that the spread is slowing 

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On 2/26/2020 at 10:42 AM, TXcruzer said:

If you are referring to the MSC ship denied docking at Ocho Rios; it wasn’t due to the flu; it was due to the fact that the ilL crew member had been to a quarantined country within the incubation period. 

That was truly stupid for MSC to let that crew member board the ship till he had finished his quarantine period on land since he traveled from one of the quarantined countries.   They put everyone at jeopardy for one crew member.    I highly doubt RCL will do that!     

 

My DH is immuno compromised so we are always on alert especially during flu season.    We returned from a 3 week b2b a couple weeks ago and have another 8 night cruise for March and another one in April.     I usually get a cold/crud from flying to cruise port at least the cruise in March we can drive to port -  that's always nice.    His Transplant Doctor told him no reason to cancel trip just use common sense and do everything we are told to do.     The average person that is in good health would get sick and feel like the flu it is those who have weaker than normal immune systems or have other health concerns that need to be extra careful.     So that's what we will do - same as always - be extra careful when traveling.    We are cautious just going to food store where everyone is hacking away this month.   Enjoy life!!!

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6 hours ago, bytheslice said:

Well said and you are being polite. I watch Fox News every night and know this is no worse than the common cold, by spring it will be gone. Again fake news trying to make trouble. Some wish for the virus to come here so millions will die and use that against those doing their best. Our boarders have been closed and flights stopped, great precautionary actions. If people just turn off the news there will be no fears!

Gee, I don't know about that.  I've had over 100 colds in my life and am still here.  For every 100 cases of COVID-19 how many are still alive?  COVID-19 is spreading faster than SARS in 2003.  Your borders are closed and your flights are stopped!  What country are you in? 

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9 hours ago, YOLO said:

Gee, I don't know about that.  I've had over 100 colds in my life and am still here.  For every 100 cases of COVID-19 how many are still alive?  COVID-19 is spreading faster than SARS in 2003.  Your borders are closed and your flights are stopped!  What country are you in? 

Without knowing your age and general health status that's a tough question, but the last mortality rate i saw for "healthy individuals under 50" was estimated at about 0.26%.

So in your 100 cases of COVID-19 proposed 99.74 out of 100 should have survived ... rounding up since i'm pretty sure that 74% surviving counts as you being alive ... hey presto your expected survival from COVID-19 matches your survival rate on the common cold.

Spreading faster yes ... agreed ... panicking everyone ... agreed ... 

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People can muster any statistics they like for or against something and they will push their agenda on others. Make your own decisions.

Before this all got the coverage it was getting now in the world people didn't have the information or really understand what the disease was. Those folks were not as informed as we all are now.

There is a clearly a health risk in the world. A simple way to avoid it is to avoid it. For us, we have chosen to avoid it and skip cruising for a bit. 

Almost everything in life comes with risk. Whatever your choice is it will be the right one for you.

When it comes down to it we are just talking about vacations here. People are actually getting very sick and many have died. We should keep that in perspective here.

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13 hours ago, jticarruthers said:

Without knowing your age and general health status that's a tough question, but the last mortality rate i saw for "healthy individuals under 50" was estimated at about 0.26%.

So in your 100 cases of COVID-19 proposed 99.74 out of 100 should have survived ... rounding up since i'm pretty sure that 74% surviving counts as you being alive ... hey presto your expected survival from COVID-19 matches your survival rate on the common cold.

Spreading faster yes ... agreed ... panicking everyone ... agreed ... 

Thanks for guessing that I am under 50, but I am not.  So please let me know what are my chances?

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12 hours ago, whenismynextcruise said:

People can muster any statistics they like for or against something and they will push their agenda on others. Make your own decisions.

Before this all got the coverage it was getting now in the world people didn't have the information or really understand what the disease was. Those folks were not as informed as we all are now.

There is a clearly a health risk in the world. A simple way to avoid it is to avoid it. For us, we have chosen to avoid it and skip cruising for a bit. 

Almost everything in life comes with risk. Whatever your choice is it will be the right one for you.

When it comes down to it we are just talking about vacations here. People are actually getting very sick and many have died. We should keep that in perspective here.

Several of us are booked to sail on the Anthem in a week, which we booked last August.  In addition we have two other RCL cruises booked.  I would like to ignore this situation, but I can't.  To this point we have not been offered a full refund options.  If given that option I would take it.  Like you say, we are just talking about a vacation.  Agreed, we all need to make the most informed decisions we possible can, with our personal risk tolerance near the top of the list. 

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10 hours ago, YOLO said:

Thanks for guessing that I am under 50, but I am not.  So please let me know what are my chances?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51674743 

BBC is a source i trust more than many others which is not to say its 100% factual either as the world of journalism is driven by gaining attention.

There is a table in the article breaking down odds by age/gender/other health condition.

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2 hours ago, jticarruthers said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51674743 

BBC is a source i trust more than many others which is not to say its 100% factual either as the world of journalism is driven by gaining attention.

There is a table in the article breaking down odds by age/gender/other health condition.

The BBC over the past 10 tears has become a shadow of what it used to be for factual journalism, they have become a puppet of the government and the rich / influential. their political team have a free reign to say whatever their government sources leak them, with no traditional checks and balances ie. obtaining credible  confirmation before publishing. 

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14 hours ago, YOLO said:

Thanks for guessing that I am under 50, but I am not.  So please let me know what are my chances?

This image was posted by a friend of mine who is a doctor and is advocating for people to be realistic based on their age, not lump the disease overall as either it’s going to kill everyone it infects or it’s just like the flu. Source per the image is the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, but the numbers align with those in the BBC link provided earlier.

It’s definitely a bigger risk once in your 70s or older. I hope this helps.

 

 

image.png

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Interesting addition to an article I've been following :

"IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:
1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
THE SYMPTOMS
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention."

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3 hours ago, mrslap02 said:

The news had made this much worse than really is. On the ship they are busy cleaning the whole trip. I would be more worried about staying in a hotel before you get on the ship. 

IMG_2459.PNG

I don't know if people should be worried or not, but any time I see that the common flu has killed more people than Corona virus I pretty much stop paying attention to whatever comes after that.  It is such an apples to oranges straw man.  If you want to say that Corona virus only appears to be about 10 to 20 times more fatal than the common flu, then you seem to be at least in the ballpark of any numbers I have seen, but it's been around for such a short period of time, no really has a great handle on it.  So comparing it to annual deaths from the common flu is just silly.

Of course the media is overhyping, that is what they do, but that one statement about the flu is just...

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3 hours ago, DaiC01 said:

Interesting addition to an article I've been following :

"IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:
1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
THE SYMPTOMS
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention."

I don't know if this is accurate, but this is the most detailed information I have seen about the actual virus.  Thanks.

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This paper was published last week in J. Amer Med Assoc and describes a study of >44,000 confirmed cases (virus positive by PCR) of covid-19 in China.  

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762130?guestAccessKey=bdcca6fa-a48c-4028-8406-7f3d04a3e932&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=022420

 

Interesting numbers reported:

Spectrum of disease (N = 44 415)

  • Mild: 81% (36 160 cases)

  • Severe: 14% (6168 cases)

  • Critical: 5% (2087 cases)

 

Case-fatality rate

  • 2.3% (1023 of 44 672 confirmed cases)

  • 14.8% in patients aged ≥80 years (208 of 1408)

  • 8.0% in patients aged 70-79 years (312 of 3918)

  • 49.0% in critical cases (1023 of 2087)

 

Note that all of the fatalities occurred in the critically ill patient cohort which comprised only 5% of total infected individuals.  Critical illness was defined as patients exhibiting acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), septic shock and/or other organ failure.  This cohort consisted primarily of individuals with other co-morbidities.  No deaths were recorded in the >42,000 confirmed cases of mild or severe disease.

 

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I've always used hand sanitizer, try and not touch railings, after washing my hands-with soap-I use a paper towel to open the bathroom door to exit....after getting food from a buffet, I RE DO my hand sanitizer.  
Have you ever people watched and see people walk past the hand sanitizer station, not wash their hands in the bathroom, eat at the buffet while getting their food?  PRECAUTION is key, year round.  

I've read on this forum to wipe down my room....honestly something I never thought of before but it makes a lot of sense.  SO I will add that to my list of precautions.

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Just now, Pattycruise said:

I've read on this forum to wipe down my room....honestly something I never thought of before but it makes a lot of sense.  SO I will add that to my list of precautions.

Be aware that not all sanitizing wipes kill tougher viruses like Norovirus. Pinging @Lovetocruise2002, as I know she brings a supply of one of the few kinds that does kill Norovirus and other viruses with her on every cruise.

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14 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

Be aware that not all sanitizing wipes kill tougher viruses like Norovirus. Pinging @Lovetocruise2002, as I know she brings a supply of one of the few kinds that does kill Norovirus and other viruses with her on every cruise.

Noro is a tough one to kill.  Most sanitizing wipes do not kill the virus.  I only know of three, that can be sold to the public, that are effective.

1. Oxivir TB Wipes

2. Clorox Hydrogen Peroxide wipes (from their Healthcare line, not the regular Clorox wipes)

3. Sono disinfecting wipes

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3 hours ago, Dragon66 said:

We are cruising in May and while i know the potential risks i am not overly concerned at this time. I agree with many of the other comments posted on here about the media blowing this way out of proportion.  I am in the medical field and have worked for the CDC and have been monitoring this closely. 

I'm not sure if it is overblown really? I appreciate the need not to cause undue panic and maintain perspective, but taking the Diamond Princess as the only cruise related example...

Would you board a ship where there's a chance 7 fellow passengers (even if they are old or ill) may die and 700+ will come down with a heavy cold/fever.

This isn't your usual noro or flu, there is no natural immunity out there as with most viruses. Hence why the WHO etc are taking it seriously. 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, DaiC01 said:

The BBC over the past 10 tears has become a shadow of what it used to be for factual journalism, they have become a puppet of the government and the rich / influential. their political team have a free reign to say whatever their government sources leak them, with no traditional checks and balances ie. obtaining credible  confirmation before publishing. 

Yep the BBC just copy what everyone else says or make stuff up ??‍♂️ Their breaking news is generally old news..this establishment needs to be gone and stop making us pay £160 per year for the privilege ?

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16 hours ago, YOLO said:

@DaiC01  Thanks for the article info.  Is this on-line?  Do you have a link?

It is on-line but for the life of me I cant find which article I saw it in, it was linked within a link in a discussion forum that a medical friend of mine gave me access to, I'll see if I can find it again.

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I keep reading about the mainstream news overblowing the corona virus. I'm going to be honest here, I watch quite a bit of mainstream news, it's the background noise in my home for a lot of the daytime  - I don't feel like it's being over done. I know I need to be more careful when I'm out of my home, especially at work and on the train. I'm not overly worried at the moment and follow the news to figure out how close it is and if there is anything I need to do. I have family close by who work in the local hospital and get updates from them when needed. I'm just not seeing this "news media over exaggerating everything".

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57 minutes ago, Anastasia said:

Had a question: what if you feel unwell for some reason, a few days before boarding? What’s the procedure then?

 

image.png

I don’t know the true answer to your question, but if you answered “yes” to either of the first 2, my guess is you wou be denied boarding with a cruise fare refund. 
 

If you answer “yes” to #3, my guess is that you would be referred to health care professionals who would conduct a more thorough evaluation of your current condition; then a decision would be made about boarding.

In either case, it is my understanding that your cruise fare would be fully refunded, if you are denied boarding,  if they did not refund your cruise fare, people would simply lie about their history or health condition and that would completely defeat their screening process.

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Came back from a business trip in Toronto with a one day stop over in the US (NJ)  and it interesting to compare .

While in Toronto area one could fine N95 masks (mainly in home depot but also in Walmart) in NJ I could not even fine the small alcogel bottles. 

What i could see at least were I had meetings was that finally people started to take the hand washing seriously , hopefully that habit  will stay  

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7 hours ago, ellcee said:

 - I don't feel like it's being over done... I'm just not seeing this "news media over exaggerating everything".

Could not agree more. At least in the US, we were subjected to "the flu kills more people!" headlines for more than 2 weeks after it became abundantly clear this was something else entirely. The US media carried on with that narrative well after Wuhan was quarantined, and only really started to change their tune after the spread in Europe became impossible to characterize any other way.

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