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Worried about coronavirus


Anastasia

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Just now, PG Cruiser said:

I've heard some newscaster giving this advice as a general precaution.

Well now there is an educated source... not.  These are the very people who generate the most FUD in the world and are generally very uneducated but need to sell lots of commercials to pay their high salaries.  

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1 minute ago, TXcruzer said:

By all means, let’s make the news media the voice of reason!!

 

1 minute ago, twangster said:

Well now there is an educated source... not.  These are the very people who generate the most FUD in the world and are generally very uneducated but need to sell lots of commercials to pay their high salaries.  

I'm not saying I believe everything they say.  I was just answering @twangster's question about where this "guidance" was coming from.

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2 minutes ago, TXcruzer said:

Perfect example of unwarranted hysteria. Out of stock of an item that does nothing beneficial in preventing contraction of the virus. 

I've always believed that balance is the key.  There are two extremes in this kind of scenario - indifference and hysteria.

This is just my opinion and theory, it is continuing to spread because of indifference, infected people still going around thinking it's nothing to worry about.  On the other hand there is the hysteria and paranoia causing all the fear, panic, and extinction scenarios.

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1 minute ago, twangster said:

We all must decide how to proceed as this evolves.  I choose not to listen to a person whose only training is how to read a teleprompter. 

I have a lot of friends in the medical field.  I've been asking them about advisories and bulletins they might be getting from reliable sources.  So far, they've gotten nothing.

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1 minute ago, PG Cruiser said:

I've always believed that balance is the key.  There are two extremes in this kind of scenario - indifference and hysteria.

This is just my opinion and theory, it is continuing to spread because of indifference, infected people still going around thinking it's nothing to worry about.  On the other hand there is the hysteria and paranoia causing all the fear, panic, and extinction scenarios.

I know you are a man of religion so I'm curious how you are applying the opinions of the newscaster.  If their opinion is to avoid mass gatherings what are your thoughts on church?  Should people avoid attending church?  Do you plan to avoid church?  This isn't asked as an attack, simply curious what your views are for mass gatherings at this point.

2 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

I have a lot of friends in the medical field.  I've been asking them about advisories and bulletins they might be getting from reliable sources.  So far, they've gotten nothing.

If medical professionals are getting nothing from reliable sources how are news media forming personal opinions on the matter?  That's all they are - personal opinions from a newscaster.  That's not guidance.  

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1 minute ago, twangster said:

I know you are a man of religion so I'm curious how you are applying the opinions of the newscaster.  If their opinion is to avoid mass gatherings what are your thoughts on church?  Should people avoid attending church?  Do you plan to avoid church?  This isn't asked as an attack, simply curious what your views are for mass gatherings at this point.

If medical professionals are getting nothing from reliable sources how are news media forming personal opinions on the matter?  That's all they are - personal opinions from a newscaster.  That's not guidance.  

We have a meeting scheduled to discuss possible scenarios.   During flu season, we refrain from hand shaking and holding hands together (when praying).  Disinfectant dispeners are placed in strategic locations.  Some church goers with respiratory issues wear masks (voluntarily) and stay in the back (again voluntarily).

We confer with our members in the medical field about the situation.  Our source of information is not limited to the media.

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6 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

We have a meeting scheduled to discuss possible scenarios.   During flu season, we refrain from hand shaking and holding hands together (when praying).  Disinfectant dispeners are placed in strategic locations.  Some church goers with respiratory issues wear masks (voluntarily) and stay in the back (again voluntarily).

We confer with our members in the medical field about the situation.  Our source of information is not limited to the media.

Thank you.

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@SteveinSC I meant to just piggyback of the notion that by not being more hysterical we somehow don't care about the people who have died. But kudos on being extra healthy. I am a hypochondriac and when the swine flu hit in 2009 I was in my home for 9 months straight..I mean my husband had also just died so my mental state was a bit cray cray. But I brought into the whole thing. Now I am like meh, something will eventually kill me so "gorl live your best life!"

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43 minutes ago, twangster said:

Where is this guidance coming from?  In America that is not the guidance being offered by any health organization including our CDC.  

At the moment the CDC guidance is to avoid cruises to or within Asia.  There is no guidance to avoid mass gatherings.  There is no guidance to avoid travel.

That is internal guidance from my employer, who has currently restricted all international travel (and we're in an industry where international travel is practically essential). The CDC itself has said to prepare for a pandemic, and the WHO has said to maintain social distancing. 

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9 minutes ago, LizzyBee23 said:

That is internal guidance from my employer, who has currently restricted all international travel (and we're in an industry where international travel is practically essential). The CDC itself has said to prepare for a pandemic, and the WHO has said to maintain social distancing. 

Guidance from your employer is important particularly since work is a major component of our daily lives for many of us.  

As it relates to international travel the WHO guidance is:

Health measures related to international traffic
The current outbreak originated in Wuhan city, which is a major domestic and international transport hub. Given the large population movements, and the observed human to human transmission, it is not unexpected that new confirmed cases will continue to appear in other areas and countries. With the information currently available for the novel coronavirus, WHO advises that measures to limit the risk of exportation or importation of the disease should be implemented, without unnecessary restrictions of international traffic.

Source: https://www.who.int/ith/2019-nCoV_advice_for_international_traffic/en/

For mass gatherings the WHO guidance is to perform a risk assessment for any mass gathering.  No where are they recommending avoiding mass gatherings or "social distancing" unless you are known to be infected.

WHO advise for the general public 

RECOMMENDATIONS AND ADVICE FOR THE PUBLIC If you are not in an area where COVID-19 is spreading, or if you have not travelled from one of those areas or have not been in close contact with someone who has and is feeling unwell, your chances of getting it are currently low. 


However, it’s understandable that you may feel stressed and anxious about the situation. It’s a good idea to get the facts to help you accurately determine your risks so that you can take reasonable precautions. (See Frequently Asked Questions) Your healthcare provider, your national public health authority and your employer are all potential sources of accurate information on COVID-19 and whether it is in your area. 


It is important to be informed of the situation where you live and take appropriate measures to protect yourself. (See Protection measures for everyone). If you are in an area where there is an outbreak of COVID-19 you need to take the risk of infection seriously. 


Follow the advice issued by national and local health authorities. Although for most people COVID-19 causes only mild illness, it can make some people very ill. More rarely, the disease can be fatal. Older people, and those with preexisting medical conditions (such as high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes) appear to be more vulnerable. (See Protection measures for persons who are in or have recently visited (past 14 days) areas where COVID-19 is spreading).

Source:  WHO Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) Situation report 37 dated 10am CET 26 February 2020.

Current CDC Recommendations

Last updated February 25, 2020

While the immediate risk of this new virus to the American public is believed to be low at this time, everyone can do their part to help us respond to this emerging public health threat:

  • It’s currently flu and respiratory disease season and CDC recommends getting a flu vaccine, taking everyday preventive actions to help stop the spread of germs, and taking flu antivirals if prescribed.
  • If you are a healthcare provider, be on the look-out for people who recently traveled from China and have fever and respiratory symptoms.
  • If you are a healthcare provider caring for a COVID-19 patient or a public health responder, please take care of yourself and follow recommended infection control procedures.
  • If you have been in China or have been exposed to someone sick with COVID-19 in the last 14 days, you will face some limitations on your movement and activity. Please follow instructions during this time. Your cooperation is integral to the ongoing public health response to try to slow spread of this virus. If you develop COVID-19 symptoms, contact your healthcare provider, and tell them about your symptoms and your travel or exposure to a COVID-19 patient.
  • For people who are ill with COVID-19, please follow CDC guidance on how to reduce the risk of spreading your illness to others
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1 hour ago, twangster said:

Thank you.

Twangster,

My immediate concern regarding the C. Virus is if lots more of the small caribbean countries stop letting ships into dock in their ports can Royal and Celebrity actually let a cruise go that hasn't stopped at a port or is there possibly minimum stops required?  Are the cruise lines permitted to begin a cruise knowing they can't dock at a port?  Or would we be allowed to float around for all 7 days?  I'm not saying that wouldn't still fun but of course we would miss stopping at the ports.  We have our first cruise on Celebrity on March 22nd Edge very soon and are definitely concerned what could possibly happen in this case?  Royal and Celebrity seem like they would be cohesive with one another on this subject, but information on either cruise line would be helpful to us at this time really.  

Do you have a source of knowledge/procedures on this subject by chance?  You always give important detailed information that really help us for so many circumstances regarding cruises.  So I sincerely would value any information, ideas, or any opinions you have on this subject.  Thanks again for all the knowledge you provide for us on this blog.!

Much appreciated,

Michelle

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Just now, Cruising to Retirement! said:

Twangster,

My immediate concern regarding the C. Virus is if lots more of the small caribbean countries stop letting ships into dock in their ports can Royal and Celebrity actually let a cruise go that hasn't stopped at a port or is there possibly minimum stops required?  Are the cruise lines permitted to begin a cruise knowing they can't dock at a port?  Or would we be allowed to float around for all 7 days?  I'm not saying that wouldn't still fun but of course we would miss stopping at the ports.  We have our first cruise on Celebrity on March 22nd Edge very soon and are definitely concerned what could possibly happen in this case?  Royal and Celebrity seem like they would be cohesive with one another on this subject, but information on either cruise line would be helpful to us at this time really.  

Do you have a source of knowledge/procedures on this subject by chance?  You always give important detailed information that really help us for so many circumstances regarding cruises.  So I sincerely would value any information, ideas, or any opinions you have on this subject.  Thanks again for all the knowledge you provide for us on this blog.!

Much appreciated,

Michelle

I do know that exceptions can be made to the PVSA but I have no knowledge of the circumstances that might pass muster, pun intended.  

A ship being refused into port isn't new.  There have been cases before but involving smaller cruise ships on a lesser known cruise lines or even cargo ships.  If I recall the flu was involved and the last incident I think was a couple of years ago.  What has happened isn't unprecedented , it's just more newsworthy because of the the current news environment.  

In the case of what occured this week there was a sick crew member on board.  That crew member had recently re-joined the ship and transited through the Philippines as I understand it.   This isn't a case of an island just randomly closing the port to all ships.  Acting out an an abundance of caution or possibly overreacting out of fear caused by sensationalized news stories?  We can only speculate.  The crew member may have eaten undercooked fish.  We don't know what caused the fever.  The Captain reported it as they must and the island reacted.  Next the ship tries to continue to the next island.   Naturally hearing the last island turned them away (because it was blasted out by the news media) the next island did the same.  

To project that outcome wholesale across the Caribbean and all cruise ships is unfounded.    If any government on an island that relies so heavily on tourism closed its airports and cruise ports that might pass for a few days but pretty soon the out of work residents would be screaming for them to open the island back up. 

This is exactly the Infodemic that the director of the WHO has cautioned us about.  The impact of overreacting can create tremendous damage to a country's economy and people's lives. 

The more recent countries that have begun reporting CV involved travel by air.  If an island nation in the Caribbean is on high alert or looking to proactively reduce risk they would be better served to close their airports.  A plane isn't likely to detect someone with a fever over a 90 minute flight and I don't even know if the pilot would ever know or be required to report it like a ship's Captain is.

Cruise ships represent less risk than airplanes in this matter.  

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They now apparently are monitoring thousands of possible cases in California. I think it was inevitable it would reach us. Now, hopefully instead of hysteria and speculation,  we can get real numbers and make more accurate risk assessments and track real outcomes.

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4 minutes ago, BB1 said:

...we can get real numbers and make more accurate risk assessments...

There's less reason to doubt the numbers out of Italy or SK, and those aren't exactly heartening. California has been monitoring many of those cases for weeks now (since the restrictions on travel from China were made). States all across the US have been doing the same. If you're wondering why they haven't been tested, it's because of a bottleneck at the CDC (make of that what you will). The CDC announced earlier this week they'd have the testing issues sorted out, so personally I'd expect all of this to get a lot worse before it gets better. You call it hysteria, but the fact is this is far deadlier than anything we've encountered as a culture in recent history. If you have some rosy expectation that it will all blow over without a massive undertaking to either restrict or restructure our behaviors (hopefully just in the short term), I'd adjust it. 

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I'm not being positive or negative.  The data has been poor or else the "facts" wouldn't be all over the place. I have less faith in the facts and figures of other countries and I'm already skeptical of our  own countries information. If you want to be hysterical, that's your prerogative. When I  become more convinced maybe I will be too. The jury is still out for me. I get the same misinformation you do. Sorry if it's difficult for me to interpret. 

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8 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Any stats on recent deaths from hysteria  that comes close to thousands of people dying who are NOT dying from hysteria but from the Coronavirus?

Not sure about hysteria, but walking outside has killed more people (>6k pedestrian deaths in US for 2019) than CV. News should sensationalize it, dogs should be trained not to walk and yeah markets should correct more on such news.

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4 hours ago, twangster said:

I do know that exceptions can be made to the PVSA but I have no knowledge of the circumstances that might pass muster, pun intended.  

A ship being refused into port isn't new.  There have been cases before but involving smaller cruise ships on a lesser known cruise lines or even cargo ships.  If I recall the flu was involved and the last incident I think was a couple of years ago.  What has happened isn't unprecedented , it's just more newsworthy because of the the current news environment.  

In the case of what occured this week there was a sick crew member on board.  That crew member had recently re-joined the ship and transited through the Philippines as I understand it.   This isn't a case of an island just randomly closing the port to all ships.  Acting out an an abundance of caution or possibly overreacting out of fear caused by sensationalized news stories?  We can only speculate.  The crew member may have eaten undercooked fish.  We don't know what caused the fever.  The Captain reported it as they must and the island reacted.  Next the ship tries to continue to the next island.   Naturally hearing the last island turned them away (because it was blasted out by the news media) the next island did the same.  

To project that outcome wholesale across the Caribbean and all cruise ships is unfounded.    If any government on an island that relies so heavily on tourism closed its airports and cruise ports that might pass for a few days but pretty soon the out of work residents would be screaming for them to open the island back up. 

This is exactly the Infodemic that the director of the WHO has cautioned us about.  The impact of overreacting can create tremendous damage to a country's economy and people's lives. 

The more recent countries that have begun reporting CV involved travel by air.  If an island nation in the Caribbean is on high alert or looking to proactively reduce risk they would be better served to close their airports.  A plane isn't likely to detect someone with a fever over a 90 minute flight and I don't even know if the pilot would ever know or be required to report it like a ship's Captain is.

Cruise ships represent less risk than airplanes in this matter.  

Thanks so much again for all your help as always!  Please share any new info with us all if you hear of any please!

Much Appreciated,

Michelle

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14 hours ago, BB1 said:

I'm not being positive or negative.  The data has been poor or else the "facts" wouldn't be all over the place. I have less faith in the facts and figures of other countries and I'm already skeptical of our  own countries information. If you want to be hysterical, that's your prerogative. When I  become more convinced maybe I will be too. The jury is still out for me. I get the same misinformation you do. Sorry if it's difficult for me to interpret. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ this site looks to have accurate info - like you my feeling is the media is over hyping the situation. Looking at the figures the rate total of new suspect cases world wide is on the decline {when I checked yesterday}.

In my opinion the web based news media are using the virus as click bate and TV media and Newspapers are not much better.

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2 hours ago, DaiC01 said:

In my opinion the web based news media are using the virus as click bate

I can tell you whenever I post anything about coronavirus on the site, my traffic spikes sharply. I can only imagine how much traffic (and subsequently ad revenue) news sites are pulling in from this.

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2 hours ago, DaiC01 said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ this site looks to have accurate info - like you my feeling is the media is over hyping the situation. Looking at the figures the rate total of new suspect cases world wide is on the decline {when I checked yesterday}.

In my opinion the web based news media are using the virus as click bate and TV media and Newspapers are not much better.

Thinking too narrow....in the US at least it is being used to drive mob actions that have negative economic implications and created negatives for the current administration for the sole purpose of impacting the upcoming elections.  No matter where you fall in the political spectrum that is troubling.....and that's about all I'll say about it.

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30 minutes ago, FManke said:

Dewey Defeats Truman! ?

For all the old timers and history buffs out there!

We've just gone through a General Election in the UK and the {Rich} Media agenda and miss information / bias against the Socialist candidate over the past 3 years was relentless. 

I think you Americans will see similar over the next 18 months.

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6 minutes ago, dodgestang said:

Thinking too narrow....in the US at least it is being used to drive mob actions that have negative economic implications and created negatives for the current administration for the sole purpose of impacting the upcoming elections.  No matter where you fall in the political spectrum that is troubling.....and that's about all I'll say about it.

Oh yes, its a worrying trend all around the world and yes we should be very afraid.

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would there be any compensations offered to the travellers for these situations where they are denied boarding? i find it unacceptable that a country is refusing people based on fear and not medical proof.  it seems now that if someone has any virus a country is able to deny docking.... i know i am exagerrating but you see what i mean? can the cruise company insist on the docking port to have a doctor opinion etc or complain about it ?

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