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Disabled being overcharged


Rjh8842
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So I have been playing with the idea of sending my parents on a cruise for their anniversary. Today I was pricing a cruise and realized I forgot to hit for accessible room. So I went back and did this and the price for the stateroom went up by hundreds. So doing some digging I found that this particular ship (majesty) only has four accessible staterooms. So I was thinking maybe based in that. But I checked this ship for different dates and the differences varied. Some date were the same, some a little more, and others significantly more. You would think maybe it would be based on how many of those four rooms are left but the original cruise i was looking at is a year and a half away and the furthest out of all the cruises i looked at. It is bad enough that you have to plan well in advance just to get room but to get charged more is unacceptable. Has anyone else run into this problem? Why is the pricing like this?

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It's sad but the reason pricing is more for an accessable stateroom is probably because the room itself is bigger and so the cruiseline probably wants you to pay for the extra space you are using.. Now I do not know this as a fact and i think you should call a good travel agent. I recommend MEI the agency that sponsers this blog because they are really good. And I am sure they would be able to tell you why and what you should do.. Also you happen to be picking the oldest ship in the fleet where like you said there are going to be barley any accessable rooms because it was built in 1992. May I suggest you looking at enchantment of the seas which also does weekend cruises but is a little bit of a newer ship and might have more staterooms.. Again really i think you need a good travel agent.

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Royals cabins are priced not only based upon the cruise but on the demand, and several other factors. If the ship has a limited number of these rooms they will not be as discounted as the rooms that they have many. It is all about supply and demand. The supply is very low and the demand is high. I really do not believe you are being overcharged, it is just the rate based upon those rooms and that class of rooms. Also as another said these rooms are bigger so even at the same square foot rate they should be priced more.

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Well I have to say that I do not think it has anything to do with room size. Since I am booked on independence for next year as well and pricing was the same per person was the same for both rooms. A lot of people think that accessible rooms are a lot bigger but in reality they are not much bigger. The main differences are that the door itself is wider so that your wheelchair can fit through the door. The bathroom is bigger because for the rollin shower (but it also makes it messier). And they have less furniture so that the wheelchair can move about. Unfortunately alot of people are under the impression they are bigger and better so they book rooms they do not need. Leaving fewer of the few for people in real need. I am used to haveing to plan eons in advance. I also don't mind that we pay full price when going somewhere that is mostly inaccessible for wheelchairs. But I am certainly not of the mind to pay more.

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Well I have to say that I do not think it has anything to do with room size. Since I am booked on independence for next year as well and pricing was the same per person was the same for both rooms. A lot of people think that accessible rooms are a lot bigger but in reality they are not much bigger. The main differences are that the door itself is wider so that your wheelchair can fit through the door. The bathroom is bigger because for the rollin shower (but it also makes it messier). And they have less furniture so that the wheelchair can move about. Unfortunately alot of people are under the impression they are bigger and better so they book rooms they do not need. Leaving fewer of the few for people in real need. I am used to haveing to plan eons in advance. I also don't mind that we pay full price when going somewhere that is mostly inaccessible for wheelchairs. But I am certainly not of the mind to pay more.

 

 
When something is posted and just out and out wrong, or misleading it must be corrected. You posted "A lot of people think that accessible rooms are a lot bigger but in reality they are not much bigger. At best this statement is wrong. The cabins are much bigger across the fleet than the standard cabins. You said you are own the Independence, so lets look at that ship. Three groups of cabins offer accessible rooms; inside, outside, balcony. And in every single case the accessible cabins are much bigger. Below are the numbers for cabin classes and sizes on the  Independence. The cabins are 40 to 50% larger, larger cabins means less cabins in the same space and less revenue, it is not a discrimination, it is paying for your cabin size.  
I'm sorry but the numbers here do not lie much larger cabins, limited number of them, higher demand, means higher selling price.
 
INTERIOR STATEROOMS
 
Accessible Interior Stateroom  Size Stateroom 256 sq. ft.
Accessible Promenade Stateroom Size Stateroom 266 sq. ft.
 
Regular Cabin
160 to 169 sq ft
 
OUTSIDE STATEROOMS
 
Accessible Oceanview Stateroom   Size  315 sq. ft.
 
Regular Cabin 180 to 216 sq ft
 
BALCONY STATEROOMS
 
Accessible Deluxe Ocean View with Balcony  Size Stateroom: 286 sq. ft.  
 
Regular Balcony Cabin 199 to 214 sq Feet
 
 
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Perhaps it varies around the globe, but I just priced an accessible room for our trip out of Florida in 2017 and the prices are identical to the non-accessible rooms in the same category.    Make sure you're comparing the exact same category of room, not just 'balcony'.  I don't believe they can charge more for an accessible room in the US.

 

Now, if you book today in a certain category and then come back two months from now, the prices can change.  Depending on the demand or current sales offers, that same room could have increased or decreased in price, but it should still be equal to the same non-accessible room in the same category.

 

For anyone booking an accessible room that doesn't need it, you need a good smack upside the head.  There are a lot of people in wheelchairs that must have that space to maneuver, fit in the bathrooms, have the wider door, etc.  The space isn't a luxury, its a necessity.  I promise its not an extra frill.  If you want more space, go buy a suite and save the room for someone that needs it.

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Royals cabins are priced not only based upon the cruise but on the demand, and several other factors. If the ship has a limited number of these rooms they will not be as discounted as the rooms that they have many. It is all about supply and demand. The supply is very low and the demand is high. I really do not believe you are being overcharged, it is just the rate based upon those rooms and that class of rooms. Also as another said these rooms are bigger so even at the same square foot rate they should be priced more.

US ships are required to follow the ADA laws, however as we know most of these ships are considered foreign vessels. However the Passenger Vessels Accessibility Guidelines. (PVGA) set guidelines for new construction of ships, and set the "rules" for what cruise lines are doing, or not doing for disabled cruisers.

 

Cost of accessible cabins has nothing to do with supply and demand, They do not increase the price of accessible cabins because there are not as many. I have never paid more for an accessible cabin than another cabin in the same category. They also do not charge more for square footage, (even though you seem to think they should) passengers in a wheelchair need extra space to do the same things you do everyday. Would you want to pay extra just to be able to walk through the threshold of your cabin?

 

To the OP, what I think may be happening is you are seeing different category's of cabins... All OV balcony cabins are not created equal I would get with a good travel agent of call the cruise line directly and they should be able to help you. I have sailed exclusively in accessible cabins (my son requires a wheelchair) and it has taken years to figure out all the ins and outs of accessible cruising. If I can help you in any way I am happy to. Good luck!

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Cost of accessible cabins has nothing to do with supply and demand, They do not increase the price of accessible cabins because there are not as many. I have never paid more for an accessible cabin than another cabin in the same category. They also do not charge more for square footage, (even though you seem to think they should) passengers in a wheelchair need extra space to do the same things you do everyday. Would you want to pay extra just to be able to walk through the threshold of your cabin?

 

 

 

 

All cabins on all Royal ships are priced based upon supply and demand. It is not discrimination to charge more for a cabin that has higher demand. If you have 20 accessible cabins and the projections say you can sell 30, then you up the price. If you have 20 and demand is 10 you lower the price. It is a simple fact that cruise ships sell space, if your cabin is 50% bigger then you should pay more, if you are not it is the other guest that must make up the difference.

 

The poster said "Would you want to pay extra just to be able to walk through the threshold of your cabin? "  No one ever wants to pay more, but in still case you should.  Very simple in the same space as two accessible cabins take Royal can build three regular cabins. It is only about return on every shareholders investment. The same rules apply to family cabins, since they are much bigger they are only offered to larger family groups, but if the ship is undersold or has many open they will open to parties of only 2 passengers. It is not discrimination that they will not offer a family cabin to 2 passengers a year out, but will offer 35 days out. It is just good business.

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All cabins on all Royal ships are priced based upon supply and demand. It is not discrimination to charge more for a cabin that has higher demand. If you have 20 accessible cabins and the projections say you can sell 30, then you up the price. If you have 20 and demand is 10 you lower the price. It is a simple fact that cruise ships sell space, if your cabin is 50% bigger then you should pay more, if you are not it is the other guest that must make up the difference.

 

The poster said "Would you want to pay extra just to be able to walk through the threshold of your cabin? "  No one ever wants to pay more, but in still case you should.  Very simple in the same space as two accessible cabins take Royal can build three regular cabins. It is only about return on every shareholders investment. The same rules apply to family cabins, since they are much bigger they are only offered to larger family groups, but if the ship is undersold or has many open they will open to parties of only 2 passengers. It is not discrimination that they will not offer a family cabin to 2 passengers a year out, but will offer 35 days out. It is just good business.

I'm sorry but you are incorrect on the cruise lines charging more for Accessible cabins just because of sq footage. The cost of an accessible cabin will be the same as any cabin in that same category. Thank goodness the Cruise lines don't have your same feelings on what is discrimination, or morally right.

 

You may want to do a bit of research on this subject, here is a quote from DOT and PVGA on how they handle different categories of accessible cabins when the ones that are needed are not available.

 

 

The Department recognizes that some existing vessels may not have accessible cabins in all classes of service. PVOs, (passenger vessel operators*) however, cannot properly impose costs on disabled passengers because vessels lack accessible cabins in some classes of service. If a passenger with a disability wants to travel in a less costly class of service, rather than a more expensive class, but the PVO has chosen to make adequate numbers of accessible cabins available only in more other expensive classes of service, the PVO must make accessible cabins available to passengers with disabilities at no more than the cost of the class of service the passenger requests. Under a nondiscrimination rule, disabled passengers, like all other passengers, should be able to purchase accommodations they can use at a price they are willing to pay." As well accessible cabins can not be at a higher price for the same class of cabin.

 

An example of this non-discrimination rule is that on our next Allure sailing we wanted to sail in an accessible JS, as none (a year and a half out mind you) were available RCCL rules had to upgrade us to the accessible Crown Loft suite for the same price as the accessible JS. Yay!

 

Given your feelings (or lack there of) on disabled needing to pay extra for the room they require, this probably doesn't sit well with you. But don't worry we won't be taking up space on the flow rider, zip line, skating rink, miniature golf, sports courts, rock climbing wall, even though we payed top dollar to sail just like everyone else. This should make the shareholders happy!

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Well I spent an hour on the phone with rccl and talked to 3 different people. And I was told that the reason behind the pricing difference was because the accessible room had a different letter than the regular inside room. I do not really understand the letter system but I guess I will go with it. Thanks for all information. And to clarify the cruise line said it had nothing to do with size or accessiblity.

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Well I spent an hour on the phone with rccl and talked to 3 different people. And I was told that the reason behind the pricing difference was because the accessible room had a different letter than the regular inside room. I do not really understand the letter system but I guess I will go with it. Thanks for all information. And to clarify the cruise line said it had nothing to do with size or accessiblity.

 

 

First most of the line people you talk to at Royal are mindless drones reading the answers from printed material. And if you call 3 times you will get at least two different answers. But my question directly to you, How many shareholders meetings or investment meeting have you sat in on or been at? My guess is now because first hand information all Royal Cabins are priced based upon size and locations, and many other factors. The discounts offered from the time the cruises are posted until sailing are based upon supply and demand.

 

My information is not from a $8.00 per hour line worker but directly from management reporting to company owners. I'm very happy and proud to say as a shareholder we charge more for accessibility rooms in part because they are much larger than standard rooms and require a higher payment. We also charge more for family rooms for the same reason. 

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Well I spent an hour on the phone with rccl and talked to 3 different people. And I was told that the reason behind the pricing difference was because the accessible room had a different letter than the regular inside room. I do not really understand the letter system but I guess I will go with it. Thanks for all information. And to clarify the cruise line said it had nothing to do with size or accessiblity.

I'm glad you got the answer to your question. It has taken me a while to figure out the category system as well. It is mainly based on location. I wish they had accessible cabins in every category so we could choose better how much we want to spend, but they don't, but like I said they have never charged me more for an accessible cabin as a standard cabin in the same category.

 

I hope you have a fabulous cruise!!!

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Matt, When you look at RCCL interior staterooms and check the I have a disability many choices come up. RCCL calls a regular 169 sq. ft. cabin and a 200+ sq. ft. cabin disabled. They sell them for the same price. I had a motorized scooter and asked for an interior handicapped room and was given a category K cabin, that was 169 sq. ft. I called because it was too small for the scooter and was told the door was 32 to 36 inches wide, the scooter would fit in the cabin. When I boarded the ship I had to park the scooter in my accessible shower stall, it wouldn't fit any where else. Yes the scooter fit through the door but I had to have the coffee table and bedside tables taken out of the room so I could get the scooter into the shower stall. I think when they book the accessible rooms they sell regular sized cabins where the door has been widen and call it accessible and charge more for the room.

 

I agree it is about supply and demand and I have been told I need to book an accessible room on the day the cruise posts online. But I disagree that a handicapped person is charged more for the same 169 sq ft. that a nondisabled passenger pays.

 

I am not trying to argue with you but I am disabled and have been treated differently from other passengers in many ways, cost of cruise, accommodations, etc.

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When a situation like this comes up, make sure you're comparing apples to apples. It's possible that the cabins, while both insides for instance, are actually different categories and that's the reason for the price difference nice seen this when pricing double and triple cabins as I've had to go to a higher category to get a triple room.

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I agree it is about supply and demand and I have been told I need to book an accessible room on the day the cruise posts online. But I disagree that a handicapped person is charged more for the same 169 sq ft. that a nondisabled passenger pays.

 

 

 

It is not more because you are disabled, it is more because it is larger and the demand is higher. Royal does not always start at a higher price but because of supply and demand these cabins seem to be priced higher. These cabins are in demand by people who are disabled and by passengers who want a larger cabin. 

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It is not more because you are disabled, it is more because it is larger and the demand is higher. Royal does not always start at a higher price but because of supply and demand these cabins seem to be priced higher. These cabins are in demand by people who are disabled and by passengers who want a larger cabin.

 

Please go out and do a mock booking for the SAME CATAGORY cabins one regular and one accessible. They will be the same price. The accessible will not be more because of the larger cabin size.

 

If able bodied persons are booking accessible cabins "because they want a larger cabin" (before final payment and they are opened to the general public), Then they are horribly selfish and should be ashamed!

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If able bodied persons are booking accessible cabins "because they want a larger cabin" (before final payment and they are opened to the general public), Then they are horribly selfish and should be ashamed!

 

Why? If the cabin is open and it is allowed by Royal what has the passenger booking done wrong here? Are you saying that every person is not entitled to the best cabin they can get, at the best deal? Who is really being selfish here the person booking or Royal? For the record I have never had one of these cabins or do I want one.

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Carnival called me one time and OFFERED the ADA cabin since it was larger and they didn't have it sold.  We accepted graciously.

 

I have no problem with a cruise line offering an accessible cabin after final payment if one is still available. I do not expect cruise lines to sit with open cabins and lose money. If they are offering these cabins before final payment then they are wrong in doing so.

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Why? If the cabin is open and it is allowed by Royal what has the passenger booking done wrong here? Are you saying that every person is not entitled to the best cabin they can get, at the best deal? Who is really being selfish here the person booking or Royal? For the record I have never had one of these cabins or do I want one.

If you even have to ask, I have nothing more to say to you. One of these days you or someone you love may find out what it is to be disabled, and I think your views may change. I can tell you for sure my son would much rather sleep in a broom closet on a ship, than live his life in his wheelchair given the choice.

 

I think my time with this blog is done...

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I have to agree with Laurac22, if you purposely book an ADA cabin because you want a bigger cabin, than you are falsely booking a cabin that a person with a disability might not be able to get because someone who isn't disabled took it because they wanted a larger room. I am sorry the person that is not disabled should look at an Ocean View, Balcony or Suite, I understand it will cost more but they are being deceiving in booking a ADA cabin. The person that booked this ADA cabin is wrong, not the cruise line.

 

You have to make out paperwork stating you are ADA, but these people just lie, It might be better if the cruise lines required a doctor's statement saying the passenger is ADA. That would solve the problem. I know more paperwork for the cruise line but at least ADA passengers would have a chance to get the cabin.

 

I agree if the cruise line offers it to you near final or after, yes, then take it. 

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It's my understanding that requiring this is actually against the ADA and that a company cannot actually require you to provide proof or inquire about what your actual disability is.  This is what Disney struggled with regarding their Disability Assistance Program and why they had to revamp it because people were abusing it.

 

You have to make out paperwork stating you are ADA, but these people just lie, It might be better if the cruise lines required a doctor's statement saying the passenger is ADA. That would solve the problem. I know more paperwork for the cruise line but at least ADA passengers would have a chance to get the cabin.

 

 

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If you even have to ask, I have nothing more to say to you. One of these days you or someone you love may find out what it is to be disabled, and I think your views may change. I can tell you for sure my son would much rather sleep in a broom closet on a ship, than live his life in his wheelchair given the choice.

 

I think my time with this blog is done...

 

It is Royal who is offering these cabins as open once it gets close to the cruise dates. They only open them if they are not sold, how can any say Royal should allow cabins to go unsold? Royal is a business, a business owned by shareholders who want the company to follow the law but to sell every cabin and get the highest return on investment.

 

It has nothing to do with not caring,  it has everything to do with the fact that this is a business.

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It is Royal who is offering these cabins as open once it gets close to the cruise dates. They only open them if they are not sold, how can any say Royal should allow cabins to go unsold? Royal is a business, a business owned by shareholders who want the company to follow the law but to sell every cabin and get the highest return on investment.

 

It has nothing to do with not caring,  it has everything to do with the fact that this is a business.

You need to go back and look at my post #20. I said I had no problem releasing these rooms after final payment. I'm talking about the person lying about needing an accessible cabin just to get the bigger cabin.

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You need to go back and look at my post #20. I said I had no problem releasing these rooms after final payment. I'm talking about the person lying about needing an accessible cabin just to get the bigger cabin.

 

Sorry do not need to read again. Royal policy is only to open after final payment date. But if they opened on the first day, any passenger is free to take them, it is not on the passenger the passenger has done nothing wrong. You cannot blame a passenger for getting the best cabin and deal they can.

 

What I am offend by here is the title of this thread. While many may want to see Royal as a US Company they do not operate as a US company, all the ships are flagged  outside the United States, and mostly crewed by non US workers. They are not required to follow the same laws as a fixed operator like Disney World Florida.  But in a effort to accommodate passengers and to build business they try to accommodate many different groups.

 

To title this thread  "Disabled being overcharged" is implying something that is not happening here. Royal is just doing what is best for the only thing that really counts,  the highest return on the shareholders investment.  Sometimes I am very negative towards Royal in this case I believe they are more than fair with this class of cabins.

 
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Note, Todd, that ships sailing from US ports are obligated to adhere to the ADA, regardless of where they are flagged. The issue seems to revolve around a concern that some passengers may fabricate a disability in order to book one of these cabins.

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Sorry do not need to read again. Royal policy is only to open after final payment date. But if they opened on the first day, any passenger is free to take them, it is not on the passenger the passenger has done nothing wrong. You cannot blame a passenger for getting the best cabin and deal they can.

 

What I am offend by here is the title of this thread. While many may want to see Royal as a US Company they do not operate as a US company, all the ships are flagged  outside the United States, and mostly crewed by non US workers. They are not required to follow the same laws as a fixed operator like Disney World Florida.  But in a effort to accommodate passengers and to build business they try to accommodate many different groups.

 

To title this thread  "Disabled being overcharged" is implying something that is not happening here. Royal is just doing what is best for the only thing that really counts,  the highest return on the shareholders investment.  Sometimes I am very negative towards Royal in this case I believe they are more than fair with this class of cabins.

 

 

 

Yes I can blame the passenger for lying and filling out a form saying that they require an accessible cabin when they DO NOT, and are just doing it to get a larger cabin. I can't believe you feel that is justified.

 

There are 2700 cabins on an Oasis class ship. Only 46 are accessible cabins. I don't think it is to much to ask that able-bodied persons pick from the 2645 that are still available and leave the 46 to the people that have to have them in order to cruise!!

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I am disabled have sailed many times using a handicap room I will say I have to book the very day the sail date goes on line.

I'm going in June from San Juan I booked this trip maybe 18 months ago I booked going on Oasis in 2017 a year ago.

Never paid any more than our friends who were next door.

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Note, Todd, that ships sailing from US ports are obligated to adhere to the ADA, regardless of where they are flagged. The issue seems to revolve around a concern that some passengers may fabricate a disability in order to book one of these cabins.

 

At this time about 50% of Royal's market is not from the United States. I know as Americans we tend to think we are the center of the World and everything is centered around the United States but it is not. So in this international market the ADA from the United States does not apply. And getting doctors notes or proof maybe is again a hard thing to do in the United States but not in many other parts of the World. I know I can walk into a doctors office here pay 500 pesos under US$11.00, so really what good does a extra paperwork due? And I believe under US ADA rules a merchant cannot even asked about the disability, only are you disabled. But I could be wrong....

 

I know a person who wants to travel with his dogs on airplanes, he has doctors documentation that his dogs are service animals and they travel with him in the passenger cabin. Is it right to do this? No but it is done, because under the rules the airlines hands are tied. People lie and cheat all the time, it has always happen and you can never completely stop it.  So if someone wants to do these things good luck trying to stop them.

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Yes I can blame the passenger for lying and filling out a form saying that they require an accessible cabin when they DO NOT, and are just doing it to get a larger cabin. I can't believe you feel that is justified.

 

There are 2700 cabins on an Oasis class ship. Only 46 are accessible cabins. I don't think it is to much to ask that able-bodied persons pick from the 2645 that are still available and leave the 46 to the people that have to have them in order to cruise!!

 

Laurac22

 

I suggest you read what I posted again. I said if Royal opens these cabins to the general public, you cannot blame the passengers for taking them.  I never said by the passengers lying, but we all know passengers can and do lie.  But if general passengers book all these cabins (when opened by Royal) and you can't cruise that is not on the passengers that is on Royal. 

 

Royal job is to fill every single cabin, to return money to the shareholders. If that means placing guest into cabins, and closing out cabin types they have done their job. If you require these cabins book them early when they are the same price as other cabins and available. Because if it is close to the cruise date and few cabins left, I want and expect Royal to mark that cabin up as high as possible and make the largest profit.

 

Cruise companies across the board have one real main goal when it comes to cabin booking. Get as much total revenue as they can.

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I am disabled have sailed many times using a handicap room I will say I have to book the very day the sail date goes on line.

I'm going in June from San Juan I booked this trip maybe 18 months ago I booked going on Oasis in 2017 a year ago.

Never paid any more than our friends who were next door.

 

Because you book early. All the cabins start at the same price but once the demand starts and the supply is less prices are adjusted.

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Yes, half of Royal's market is international. However, I don't think we're being ethnocentric here as the majority of posters here sail from the US and there was no mention of the international market in the original post.

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