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WAPO: The Demise of Formal Nights on Cruises: How dress codes are tearing passengers apart


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I understand that some people like to dress up.  The question is why does that require everyone to follow their dress standard?

Why do some people who choose to dress more formal get offended when someone doesn’t conform to their level of dress?

What if people dressing better is offensive to people who just wear jeans and a polo shirt? Should the cruise line ban people who wear something too nice?  They just want to relax but now they feel like their oppressive boss or parents are present, judging them, stressing them.

What other people are wearing does not change the taste of your food.  Food does not taste better if the person at the next table is wearing a tux.  Food does not taste worse is the person at the next table is wearing jeans.

Dressing up and taking pictures can be accomplished even if the people in the next cabin don’t. You can choose to make every night a dress up night.

People who don’t dress up aren’t stressed about this.  They aren’t being torn.  They are enjoying the cruise they paid for.  

No mass market cruise line should be forcing guests to conform to a dress code.  You can’t market a cruise to the masses and then enforce a dress code for the elite of society on any night.  

Stop judging other people.  Focus on your family and dress however you choose to and enjoy your dining experience. 

If you can’t stop judging other guests and this is ruining your cruise it may be time to look for a boutique cruise line that will satisfy your level of expectations.   The mass cruise market isn’t for you.  

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On 12/22/2019 at 4:50 PM, Fuzzywuzzy said:

Most of us can only imagine what it must have been like.

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As one of the Board of Directors for our local Junior League of Cotillions, I often am in situations or environments where everyone dresses like this (or fancier). We do it all. The white gloves including. We hold 2-3 Balls a year complete with orchestras and dancing. When I attend the evening events at my ballroom dance school, it is not unusual to see many ladies in full gown or gentlemen in tuxedos.... alongside younger "kids" in jeans and TOMs. Or the lady that always wears the most fantastic "cha cha" pants with ruffles from her ankles to her cooter!

I have a lovely wardrobe of gowns and dresses. We recently held a full Victorian Ball and every lady in attendance had a hoop skirt on!

I truly love taking a moment out of my day and spending time on myself to dress up. To do my hair. To put on a gown or dress that makes ME feel like a princess. It makes ME happy. I could prance off to Home Depot for light bulbs or meet friends at a dive diner for a chili dog (I have actually done this in a gown, long story) and at the end of the day, I have never once felt out of place or uncomfortable. When I dress up, it is about me and me alone. It's not for anyone else. Just me. 

When I sail in April, I have not one but TWO gowns because I understand there will be two formal nights. I will also bring two dresses probably for 70s/White nights if they have them. When I board, I have a lovely dress and.... prepare to gasp... A HAT!

And not a ball cap, an actual HAT!

It's not as over the top as this one but I'd say it's "in the spirit of".

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I plan to swan about and dress for dinner and be presentable for breakfast or coffee in the morning because that makes ME happy.

For all those who prefer to wear their pajamas to get coffee or shorts and a backwards ball cap in the Main Dining room?

You are always welcome to sit with me, next to me, or in my immediate field of vision. How you choose to dress does not affect ME (unless you are in full fetish gear and have that mask with the zipper on.... those kind of freak me out a little so I might politely excuse myself but really that's about the only time it might bother me a little but that's on me, not you so if I am uncomfortable, it's my responsibility to attend to removing myself POLITELY and GRACEFULLY from the situation, not yours for being there).

?

I have met some of the rudest nastiest people in the world who are wearing a tuxedo or gown. I have also met some of the most fabulously delightful warm wonderful people in the world who are dressed rather sparse or "sloppy". What a person chooses to pull out of their closet and drape on their body doesn't make them a good or kind or pleasant person. That only comes from the heart. And if you have a good heart then I could give a fig what you are wearing. If you are a mean spirited, ill tempered, nasty person than the most gorgeous most expensive designer gown won't fix that black void where your heart should be.

My two cents since everyone is tossing there's about! ?

(121 days to go!)

 

 

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I definitely agree with @twangster, and I disagree with WAPO (I am not torn apart ... and I don't sense this is a big deal to many).  However ...

I dress for no one. Not at work (OK, maybe for customers), not at home, and not on a cruise. With one massive exception. I dress for my soulmate. Since I really can’t see what I am wearing, and I really could care less about what anyone else thinks, I dress for only one person ... the woman I fell in love with 40 years ago and the woman I want to make happy every single day of my life. 

I also do not care what other people wear … I am looking at my soulmate, everyone else is the equivalent of “visual background noise” … Sorry if some of you are upset.

I see frequent requests for what is acceptable in the MDR, and on Formal nights. I understand these requests are sincere questions about what is normal and tolerated. My advice is ... Ask your soulmate. Ask the person who you are devoted to. Ask the only person on the earth that matters. You and they will be much happier as a result. 

On a cruise (and many times at home), I wear what my soulmate wants.  She also asks me what I prefer that she wears, and I am honest and very appreciative when she responds. When we do this, almost always she says I “look sexy”, and I feel great (I also laugh a little). I think she is the most beautiful, engaging woman on the ship, and I would wear anything to make her happy. 

I hope everyone can have this feeling when they go cruising. 

Curt from Canada. 

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One point that is missing is how the cruise lines have changed their MDR formal evenings. I have been cruising for about fifteen years. In that time, I have seen the cruise lines really reduce their effort during formal nights. Now, other than photographers taking over-priced pictures, what distinguishes MDR formal nights from any other night? The waiters don't dress any different. There is no special live music (different than any other night), no special food or desserts, no special decorations, etc. Maybe if the cruise lines made it special, more people would be willing to dress up.

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

I understand that some people like to dress up.  The question is why does that require everyone to follow their dress standard?

Why do people who choose to dress more formal get offended when someone doesn’t conform to their level of dress?

What if people dressing better is offensive to people who just wear jeans and a polo shirt? Should the cruise line ban people who wear something too nice?  They just want to relax but now they feel like their oppressive boss or parents are present, judging them, stressing them.

What other people are wearing does not change the taste of your food.  Food does not taste better if the person at the next table is wearing a tux.  Food does not taste worse is the person at the next table is wearing jeans.

Dressing up and taking pictures can be accomplished even if the people in the next cabin don’t. You can choose to make every night a dress up night.

People who don’t dress up aren’t stressed about this.  They aren’t being torn.  They are enjoying the cruise they paid for.  

No mass market cruise line should be forcing guests to conform to a dress code.  You can’t market a cruise to the masses and then enforce a dress code for the elite of society on any night.  

Stop judging other people.  Focus on your family and dress however you choose to and enjoy your dining experience. 

If you can’t stop judging other guests and this is ruining your cruise it may be time to look for a boutique cruise line that will satisfy your level of expectations.   The mass cruise market isn’t for you.  

Exactly what I was trying to say! While I'll personally follow the suggested attire (hence no dining room on formal nights - which by the way, I'm still wearing dress pants, shirt and tie in a restaurant like chops) I don't even notice what others are wearing. I try and dress to match my wife and ask her what she'd like to see me in.

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39 minutes ago, Curt From Canada said:

My advice is ... Ask your soulmate. Ask the person who you are devoted to. Ask the only person on the earth that matters.

That's exactly what I do ... If she's wearing something nice I'll ask what she thinks will complement her outfit and pack accordingly.

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12 hours ago, Oliver said:

I don’t think it’s just cruises. Our society has moved this way entirely. 

Yep. 100%. I work for a big company that used to require shirt, tie, etc ... Now as long as you're not seeing a customer, T-shirt, jeans and sneakers are the norm. Many companies allow even less.

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3 hours ago, Pima1988 said:

I almost feel like this is a fight between passengers, and as I said before RCL has to be the parent.  It really is simple to make both sides happy.  For that 1 night, the MDR has to be re-arranged.  Think about a restaurant on land.  Every night they are re-setting tables do to reservations.

I forget the restaurant on Anthem but a friend was denied entry unless he put on a sports jacket, they even had one for him. So, there are some policing of the policies (at least that day, at that restaurant, on that ship).

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I personally like to put on a dress for formal night, something basic or something dressy (cocktail or old bridesmaid dress), mid 30's it's about the only time we get to dress up. Hubs will put on nice pants and a nice button up, usually no blazer or tie (never quite figured that thing out, lol) I dont really care how anyone is dressed, with the major exception of flip flops and tshirts with cut off sleeves that expose male nipples or a sports bra. That's just gross and I firmly believe those people should be turned away, from all dining establishments. 

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1 hour ago, sk8erguy1978 said:

I forget the restaurant on Anthem but a friend was denied entry unless he put on a sports jacket, they even had one for him. So, there are some policing of the policies (at least that day, at that restaurant, on that ship).

You had a friend was denied entry on a restaurant on Anthem for not having a jacket? You’re kidding! 

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2 hours ago, sk8erguy1978 said:

I forget the restaurant on Anthem but a friend was denied entry unless he put on a sports jacket, they even had one for him. So, there are some policing of the policies (at least that day, at that restaurant, on that ship).

I've seen that on land but never on a ship, including Anthem.  I'm surprised they had sports coats available to hand out.   Seems like a great way to spread germs.  

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6 hours ago, twangster said:

I understand that some people like to dress up.  The question is why does that require everyone to follow their dress standard?

Why do people who choose to dress more formal get offended when someone doesn’t conform to their level of dress?

What if people dressing better is offensive to people who just wear jeans and a polo shirt? Should the cruise line ban people who wear something too nice?  They just want to relax but now they feel like their oppressive boss or parents are present, judging them, stressing them.

What other people are wearing does not change the taste of your food.  Food does not taste better if the person at the next table is wearing a tux.  Food does not taste worse is the person at the next table is wearing jeans.

Dressing up and taking pictures can be accomplished even if the people in the next cabin don’t. You can choose to make every night a dress up night.

People who don’t dress up aren’t stressed about this.  They aren’t being torn.  They are enjoying the cruise they paid for.  

No mass market cruise line should be forcing guests to conform to a dress code.  You can’t market a cruise to the masses and then enforce a dress code for the elite of society on any night.  

Stop judging other people.  Focus on your family and dress however you choose to and enjoy your dining experience. 

If you can’t stop judging other guests and this is ruining your cruise it may be time to look for a boutique cruise line that will satisfy your level of expectations.   The mass cruise market isn’t for you.  

It's not about following our/their standard, and it's not about judging others.  Instead, it is a matter of coordinating a plan that maximizes everyone's enjoyment.  So there could be formal places (because that is desired for some vacation moments) and informal places (which are probably desired on the majority of vacation moments), and special times and not so special times.  And guess what?  Royal Caribbean has already done that.  Now given the client population, Royal could survey the guests and modify the distribution of venues and types of celebration, including dining, but that is an empirical question.  The fundamental point is that we need to collaborate and accommodate everyone.  I don't see why that should be a problem. When we aren't on a ship, we follow all sorts of laws, regulations, protocols, golden rules, or principles of getting along.  Just carry that over to the ship.  I respect your experience and that of all members/guests.  As Matt has said on multiple occasions, it's not what you wear but your consideration of others that counts.   That said, consideration does influence attire to some degree as well as behavior, but all of that is a personal decision. 

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9 hours ago, twangster said:

I understand that some people like to dress up.  The question is why does that require everyone to follow their dress standard?

Why do people who choose to dress more formal get offended when someone doesn’t conform to their level of dress?

What if people dressing better is offensive to people who just wear jeans and a polo shirt? Should the cruise line ban people who wear something too nice?  They just want to relax but now they feel like their oppressive boss or parents are present, judging them, stressing them.

What other people are wearing does not change the taste of your food.  Food does not taste better if the person at the next table is wearing a tux.  Food does not taste worse is the person at the next table is wearing jeans.

Dressing up and taking pictures can be accomplished even if the people in the next cabin don’t. You can choose to make every night a dress up night.

People who don’t dress up aren’t stressed about this.  They aren’t being torn.  They are enjoying the cruise they paid for.  

No mass market cruise line should be forcing guests to conform to a dress code.  You can’t market a cruise to the masses and then enforce a dress code for the elite of society on any night.  

Stop judging other people.  Focus on your family and dress however you choose to and enjoy your dining experience. 

If you can’t stop judging other guests and this is ruining your cruise it may be time to look for a boutique cruise line that will satisfy your level of expectations.   The mass cruise market isn’t for you.  

Thanks! Exactly my thots.

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9 hours ago, ChessE4 said:

The fundamental point is that we need to collaborate and accommodate everyone.

I would say this is the fundamental point where we disagree.  There's simply no need to accommodate the shrinking "I want everyone dressed up" crowd.  There are literally other cruise lines (including multiple lines owned by Royal) that cater to this crowd.

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10 hours ago, Atlantix2000 said:

There's simply no need to accommodate the shrinking "I want everyone dressed up" crowd.  There are literally other cruise lines (including multiple lines owned by Royal) that cater to this crowd.

Furthermore you can never accommodate everyone.   There is no appeasing everyone all the time.  

The minority who is isn’t being appeased in the current approach are those that get offended when people don’t dress like they do.  

Many people get dressed up and take pictures and don’t concern themselves if someone else is wearing jeans and a polo.  Many people go business casual.  Some go smart casual.  These are the majority.  

They have created an approach for the majority.  

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The ship sets specific formal nights and according to the concierge of the restaurant those nites, during formal dinner hours, they ask men to wear jackets (I suppose ties are optional lol) and ladies wear dresses.    That’s always been the policy on several ships with RC. And it’s a way to enjoy dressing up.  I suppose that they assume people that cruise have a suit or sport jacket and dress pants and ladies have dresses or skirt and blouse

i heard flack from people online for dining complaining why do suite guests get to bypass the lines. Short answer it’s one of many perks allowed to suite guests. As is priority boarding and exiting the ship.  Free internet, large credits to use to buy anything on board (the higher standard the suite is, the bigger the credit 

the same holds true for those who take inside staterooms usually the thinking is “I only spend time in the room to sleep or bathe etc, so why pay a lot more for ocean view or a balcony

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4 minutes ago, Xnysmokie said:

The ship sets specific formal nights and according to the concierge of the restaurant those nites, during formal dinner hours, they ask men to wear jackets (I suppose ties are optional lol) and ladies wear dresses.    That’s always been the policy on several ships with RC. And it’s a way to enjoy dressing up.  I suppose that they assume people that cruise have a suit or sport jacket and dress pants and ladies have dresses or skirt and blouse

i heard flack from people online for dining complaining why do suite guests get to bypass the lines. Short answer it’s one of many perks allowed to suite guests. As is priority boarding and exiting the ship.  Free internet, large credits to use to buy anything on board (the higher standard the suite is, the bigger the credit 

the same holds true for those who take inside staterooms usually the thinking is “I only spend time in the room to sleep or bathe etc, so why pay a lot more for ocean view or a balcony

Specialty restaurants don’t follow formal nights.  The dress suggestions is consistent all nights of the cruise.  No specialty venue requires a jacket or dress.  

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2 hours ago, Xnysmokie said:

i heard flack from people online for dining complaining why do suite guests get to bypass the lines. Short answer it’s one of many perks allowed to suite guests. As is priority boarding and exiting the ship.  Free internet, large credits to use to buy anything on board (the higher standard the suite is, the bigger the credit 

I've never understood people who complain about suite perks.  They are available to anyone who books a suite.  Want the perks?  Book a suite.  Boom...you've got perks.

fwiw, we are Inside GTY people.  ? 

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14 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

There needs to be, at a minimal, a minimum dress code guideline, in the MDR.

There is - no shirt, no shoes, no service.

On formal night some people simply wear their tee-shirt that isn't stained and their sandals that still haven't been permanently formed to their foot. It's like going to church in your "good" (insert name of favorite sports team here) jersey.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just read/skimmed the article.  I am of two minds.  I am also very new to cruising still.  I have not gone to a traditional formal night dinner on either of my sailings.  I am looking forward to experiencing it later this year during our sailing.  We are planning to dress the part during one of the formal nights in the MDR.  I do not think everyone needs to be dressed this way though.  Wearing a nice pair of dress shorts and shirt can look very nice and I feel would be right at home in the MDR.  Gym shorts and t-shirts are better suited for the buffet.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the idea of having the MDR split into formal/non-forma seating areas on formal nights would be more feasible if you could identify as part of the reservation that you did/did not want to participate in the formal dress.

I've only dressed up for a formal night on one cruise - as it happened to be sailing from Galveston and we live in Houston.  It was OK once, but still more a hassle than enjoyable.

And, honestly, if I hadn't been a purveyor of various cruise forums before taking a first cruise, I wouldn't have known there was such a thing as formal nights anyway.

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I'll throw in my 2 cents.  I understand cruising in general has changed drastically over the years, but formal nights seem to a nice tradition and throwback to the old days. I have to be in dress clothes every day for work, but I enjoy getting dressed up . I think formal nights should stay in itineraries and i actually wish they were more enforced for MDRs. If you don't want to dress formal that's fine, there are other venues available for that specific night where casual attire would be acceptable. As a trade off I'd be ok with less formal nights, hard as hell to pack for multiple anyways!

 

I know that won't happen though. I'm fine with the times changing, and i'll accept it without any real complaint. I just hate to see traditions completely die off. I understand other peoples view points but it doesn't change how i feel.

 

I'm glad the app for my cruise leaving this weekend still says formal on it. If it had said "dress your best" i would still dress up but i have a feeling a lot fewer people would. In fact i know less would. In my FB group for the a cruise they were talking about formal nights, someone didn't know about it and commented that they would need to rush out and get clothes, someone else said it wasn't enforced and that person said great i wont run out then. Then tons of people with very different opinions chimed in.

 

So the article is right people are kinda torn.

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I will dress up, on "wear your best" or "formal" or anything else they call it....night. Why? Because I enjoy a reason to get all spiffy, use what I learned in junior cotillion as a middle schooler (since i rarely ever do...), see my beautiful bride in a nice dress (shes usually in scrubs) and enjoy the night.... Do I care what anyone else does? No....no I do not. Same as me not caring what you do with the rest of your cruise... Happy Cruising, everyone! 

fancy deal with it GIF 

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4 hours ago, bossdog421 said:

If it had said "dress your best" i would still dress up but i have a feeling a lot fewer people would. In fact i know less would.

You might be surprised. It's not going to be all traditional-style dressing up, for sure, but as an example -- On my last Anthem cruise this past October, there were several guests who appeared to be in their late-20s, maybe early 30s, and clearly traveling as a couple of groups. They all worked out ahead of time a theme they would dress to for the "dress your best" night, and I had to applaud their creativity and for doing wearing outfits that at first glance looked like they were mocking the idea, but actually did on closer examination meet the general idea of a dress or suit.

One group wore matching white dresses / suit-jacket combos covered in comic book style onomatopoeia (BANG! Zap! Pow!!! KABOOM!! etc) and other comics-related imagery. Another group took it lower key, wearing unicorn onesies that still fit decently and just had a nice bit of whimsy to it. While a part of me does long for the "recent school" days of actual suit and tie for men and nice dresses for the women, I couldn't help but smile and appreciate that these folks at least took the time to plan something out that was in the spirit of "dress your best" but still allowed them to have fun on their cruise. I'll never complain about folks like that (on a mass-market line, at least), because I appreciate the creativity and out-of-the-box thinking.

I'll be stunned if I see groups like that on Celebrity; my understanding is that while they are loosening up a bit, they still do enforce things like no flip-flops / t-shirts / shorts even on regular nights, never mind formal nights. But that's also a more-upscale line and it stands to reason they will hold to the "old ways" more strongly.

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Sorry, female here who HATES dressing up (and all shopping in general).  Somehow I didn't get that gene.  I will wear a sundress or nice capris and a nice top.  That's as dressed as I care to get.  My husband will have a collared shirt and probably nice cargo shorts.  If there is something on the MDR menu that night we want to enjoy, we will go.  We will chew with our mouths closed, put napkins in our laps and keep our elbows off the table.  We will speak at a reasonable volume and not intrude on your meal.  Not sure why anything else should be required.

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  • 8 months later...
On 12/24/2019 at 10:40 PM, Oliver said:

I don’t think it’s just cruises. Our society has moved this way entirely. As a child I always dressed up to go out to dinner unless it was McDonald's. We always dressed up to go to the theater as well, and to go to Temple. Now nobody dresses up anywhere. People even show up to our local Synagogue in jeans and t-shirts. I hate it but it’s just the way it is. And I’m not even that old. I’m 49.

 

That’s because most of our society doesn’t give a crap about anything but themselves   Self centered me first whiny babies    
 

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Pretty sure most people right now wouldnt care what anyone wore in MDR if it meant they were cruising again,but of course there will still be those who just complain for the sake of it. 

 as this year has shown life is far to short to worry about what someone else is doing or wearing! 

And you never know the person you are berating for wearing shorts may be the same one you were clapping for a few months ago! Or who pulls on a uniform everday to put their life on the line to protect you and your country 

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7 hours ago, Ray said:

 as this year has shown life is far to short to worry about what someone else is doing or wearing! 

Yeah, dress code debates are very much a pre-COVID relic.  I would be very surprised if cruise lines even pretend to have formal nights when they restart in 2021.  

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