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It has been since 2011 or so except for a couple of intermittent cruises while the ships reposition to/from Alaska. During an earnings call, Royal essential said the market wasn't strong enough to obtain the fares that they felt were reasonable. As it is, Carnival is having to discount their ships to sail full.

 

I'm under the opinion that a newer ship (Voyager or above) and a California Coastal itinerary with a foreign stop in Ensenada could attract those not interested in the traditional Mexican Riviera cruises. I did this on Celebrity and everyone onboard was raving about the experience.

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I agree with DocLC comments about this. I would add the following it is very costly to set up and maintain a embarkation / disembarkation port. At this time the only ports they use for this are Vancouver & Seattle. It is not only the port fees but the ground personnel, supply of goods (Food, supplies, etc). I do not believe Royal wants to comment the resources as the same resources in other markets could have a higher return.

 

If the start a cruise from Seattle they need to go to a International port on the cruise. Going to Mexico is is really to far, and North is Alaska. So in order to really move into the market they would need to add a LA area embarkation port. The Alaska market offers them a better return if they need to choice between Alaska and Southern California/ Mexico.

 

While the Southern market is there I believe Royal ran the numbers and based upon other commitments it did not add up.  A California Coastal itinerary from Seattle or Vancouver could be a interest cruise and maybe will be tested in the future. I believe with Voyager now added we may see some short cruises added, Almost a cruise to nowhere but with a stop in Vancouver to meet the requirement of International port call.

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I'm new to RCL (booked our first cruise for next January) and noticed that there are no west coast departures other than Alaska. Is this always the case? Or will RCL sail out of the west coast in the future?

Royal Caribbean has essentially said there is not enough money to be made in west coast cruises (currently).  They believe fares would be too low to be profitable. 

 

Here is recent post about the prospects of returning to the west coast: http://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2015/11/03/royal-caribbean-talks-about-possibility-of-returning-west-coast

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They used to do 3 and 4 day out of L.A. as well as a 7 day to Mexico. I`ve done all of them. Now I`m stuck with Carnival, Princess and NCL. Not that they are bad, but I wish RCCL would come back..

 

Maybe bring an Alaska ship to L.A. during the winter?

 

As a California resident I would love to see them come back!

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Royal Caribbean has essentially said there is not enough money to be made in west coast cruises (currently).  They believe fares would be too low to be profitable. 

 

Here is recent post about the prospects of returning to the west coast: http://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2015/11/03/royal-caribbean-talks-about-possibility-of-returning-west-coast

 

They could save a lot of money on fuel running a seasonal ship out of San Diego with different Itineraries. 

 

7 night MR

 

7 night PC

 

3 & 4 night get aways 

 

14 night Hawaii

 

Just saying! :)

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They could save a lot of money on fuel running a seasonal ship out of San Diego with different Itineraries. 

 

Royal has already run the numbers and the market is just not there. Other lines are in a price war and the revenue per day per cabin say no. If they had unlimited ships and extra berths then maybe they could look at it. But markets like China have such a high growth rate and revenue per cabin. If you review the information given to share holder it is clear all resources are going to other locations.

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With respect to the numbers;

 

Princess and Carnival sell out their western departures at $799-$999 for a 7 day balcony. NCL is a bit higher and they sell out.

Royal Caribbean is selling 7 day Caribbean voyages for the same $799-$999 all over the calendar!

I don't see how the numbers don't add up?

Keep Explorerer of the Seas on the west coast during the winter!

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With respect to the numbers;

 

Keep Explorerer of the Seas on the west coast during the winter!

 

It is about more than the cruise fare. Very costly to set up a cruise embarkation port with all the required ground support. Which is even greater when you do it for just one ship. LA is one of the most expensive markets in the country. Even the outside market Analyst who follow the stock have said no to expanding to the Southern California market.  Royal can make more money sending the ship to other markets.

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Welcome to the boards - and agree with everyone - no cruise line really has had luck with

doing Mexican Riviera or short cruises out of LA, or San Diego - the CA market just does

not really support it like the FL market does - but they may do more Pacific Coastal cruises

and things like that in the future -

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Welcome to the boards - and agree with everyone - no cruise line really has had luck with

doing Mexican Riviera or short cruises out of LA, or San Diego - the CA market just does

not really support it like the FL market does - but they may do more Pacific Coastal cruises

and things like that in the future -

Tell that to Princess. Isn't that how they got their start. ;)

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Tell that to Princess. Isn't that how they got their start. ;)

 

That was a different time and market, things have changed. Clipper Ships were the first choice for faster travel in the 1800's, but could be profitable today? Anything is possible with Royal and maybe someday they will return to Los Angeles / San Diego but it is not in the near future plans.

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That was a different time and market, things have changed. Clipper Ships were the first choice for faster travel in the 1800's, but could be profitable today? Anything is possible with Royal and maybe someday they will return to Los Angeles / San Diego but it is not in the near future plans.

I do realize this, Todd, especially as someone who lives in the area and having seen the number of ships and passengers drop at an alarming rate.

 

The wink smile ;) was meant to indicate that the comment was a joke.

 

I don't have any expectations that Royal will make a return. And as much as I'd like them to, I've done the Mexican Riviera three times and I have little interest in doing it again. However, I'd do another California Coastal in a heartbeat or would do Mexico again for a good ship as I could make the ship my destination.

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I'm it's true that there just isn't a market to fill ships on a weekly basis in southern California.  But it's weird that RCCL keeps a megaship in NY year round because so many people can drive to the port, and nothing in SoCal.  I guess it's that SoCal's winters aren't nearly as bad as the NYC's.

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But it's weird that RCCL keeps a megaship in NY year round because so many people can drive to the port, and nothing in SoCal.  I guess it's that SoCal's winters aren't nearly as bad as the NYC's.

I believe RC's decision to keep a ship year round has more to do with the prices it can command than anything else.  If RC could fill ships and make money from cruises departing  Bangor, Maine, I am sure they would do it.  

 

While there are many factors that contribute to where ships are homeported, a requirement is being able to sell the cruise for a profit (and fill the ship).

 

From what we've heard from RC, the fares RC could command out of LA are not what they'd like.

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From what we've heard from RC, the fares RC could command out of LA are not what they'd like.

 

Nor New Orleans, or Mobile AL, or Charleston SC.  Carnival has a lot of ships and do business there, but they wind up with cut-rate fares.  RC doesn't want to "bottom-feed", and I appreciate that.

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I believe RC's decision to keep a ship year round has more to do with the prices it can command than anything else.  If RC could fill ships and make money from cruises departing  Bangor, Maine, I am sure they would do it.  

 

While there are many factors that contribute to where ships are homeported, a requirement is being able to sell the cruise for a profit (and fill the ship).

 

From what we've heard from RC, the fares RC could command out of LA are not what they'd like.

 

I believe the real factor here is California's ARB Emission Reduction Plan for Ports  (Ultra low sulfur fuel)  the plan went into effect in late 2009 hence Mariners of the seas depature anouncement out of LA in early 2010,  ULSF is double the price of regular bunker fuel and is hard to procure. Even though other cruise lines stayed they repositioned smaller ships to the market adjusting to the lower demand in hoping increased cruise fares to cover the fuel cost. 

 

The federal law that came into effect in 2015 is for emmisions containing ULS, and also requires ships to be compliant with state law. California's state law requires ship to burn ULSF. Come to find out a lot of the ship found their fuel was out of compliance with law becuase regular bunker fuel at the bottom of the tank was enough to contaiment the ULSF when they filled up. So to comply with the law You need a tank dedicated to ULSF only or you have to do a complete scrub down of the tank prevoiusly carrying regular bunker fuel. California's ARB just released guidance in 10/15 allowing for scrubbers in good faith to comply with law.  Galveston and Dubai's cruise fare are very compariable to the LA's. My guess is with the states new guidance on scrubbers we will see a RCI ship here soon with it.

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Fuel Costs, Labor Costs, Port Fees, all reasons to stay out of the LA ports.  "Dubai's cruise fare are very comparable to the LA's." Yes but the fuel cost in Dubai is among the lowest in the World, so when you look at the overall picture while the fare maybe the same the net revenue is much lower out of the LA port. 

 

When Royal has been asked about LA they have sited many causes but I do not remember them talking about fuel cost as the major factor.  With a limited number of ships the fleet is better in other places.

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Tell that to Princess. Isn't that how they got their start. ;)

Yes, Princess started with one ship in Mexico!

 

They are still there with weekly Mexico voyages out of Los Angeles and San Francisco as well as Panama Canal voyages. They seem to be doing well, ships are sold out.

 

We sailed with Royal twice out of L.A. in 1996 and 2007. Both ships were full and we loved the ability to cruise without flying.

We would have sailed Royal out of San Francisco to Alaska in 2008, but they didn't have any voyages. Princess again! Not that Princess is bad. We enjoyed the cruise and have sailed with them since with one more coming up.

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Fuel Costs, Labor Costs, Port Fees, all reasons to stay out of the LA ports.  "Dubai's cruise fare are very comparable to the LA's." Yes but the fuel cost in Dubai is among the lowest in the World, so when you look at the overall picture while the fare maybe the same the net revenue is much lower out of the LA port. 

 

When Royal has been asked about LA they have sited many causes but I do not remember them talking about fuel cost as the major factor.  With a limited number of ships the fleet is better in other places.

 

 I believe it is the fuel cost the caused them to leave LA. RCI hedges on averages about 50 percent of the fuel. As for the labor cost RCI ships are foreign flagged, they are not subject to California state labor laws. I have taken 10 cruises out of California the highest taxes and port fees I paid where Florida and Washington the cheapest port taxes fees I paid where out of San Diego.

 

When Matt inteviewed Vicki Freed she said thier cost was higher for operating cruises and at the current price point they could not make a profit, " its a bath out there." So based on all the info and facts common sense tells me FUEL.. Now if RCI can retrofit a Radiance class or vision class ship with a scrubber and knowing the contract they signed with the port of LA when the repositioned Mariner of the seas is up in 2018 next year when they announce their deployment schedule for 2018 and 2019, I think its highly likely they return to the west coast.

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 I believe it is the fuel cost the caused them to leave LA. RCI hedges on averages about 50 percent of the fuel. As for the labor cost RCI ships are foreign flagged, they are not subject to California state labor laws.

 

 

 When I said labor cost I was not talking about the crew on the ships. I was talking about the dock workers, truck drivers, Port Security, Local office port staff, warehouse workers, all the staff Royal has on the ground that never cruise on the ships. LA Port is union and has among the highest post cost in the country. San Diego puts a low passenger port tax in place in a effort to attack passengers but all the other ground costs are very high.  

 

I read all the shareholders reports, and have the market analyst  information, and the annual shareholders meeting information and nowhere in anything that I have seen is Southern California in the plan.  That could change but I do not believe it will.

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 When I said labor cost I was not talking about the crew on the ships. I was talking about the dock workers, truck drivers, Port Security, Local office port staff, warehouse workers, all the staff Royal has on the ground that never cruise on the ships. LA Port is union and has among the highest post cost in the country. San Diego puts a low passenger port tax in place in a effort to attack passengers but all the other ground costs are very high.  

 

 

 

Well with the expansion of the Panama Canal the West Coast port pricing will have to be competive with the rest of the nation.

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Well with the expansion of the Panama Canal the West Coast port pricing will have to be competive with the rest of the nation.

The Panama Canal will not change any of the cost that I sited above... dock workers, truck drivers, Port Security, Local office port staff, warehouse workers, all are not effected by the Panama Canal and unless you are talking about ships traveling through the canal itself. But we are not talking about that we are talking about the LA Port Area. Which for this discussion is unaffected by the Panama Canal.

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The Panama Canal will not change any of the cost that I sited above... dock workers, truck drivers, Port Security, Local office port staff, warehouse workers, all are not effected by the Panama Canal and unless you are talking about ships traveling through the canal itself. But we are not talking about that we are talking about the LA Port Area. Which for this discussion is unaffected by the Panama Canal.

 

Yes it is. Local news has been reportinng on it for the last couple of years And the mayor of LA has set up a Adviserie committee. The ports of L A and Long Beach have figured they lost about 10 percent of bussiness due to the recent work stoppage over a new labor contract. Ships are heading to the gulf and east coast ports because products are getting to market faster. They are now looking too fully automated terminals to keep cost down and stay competitive. 

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Yes it is. Local news has been reportinng on it for the last couple of years And the mayor of LA has set up a Adviserie committee. The ports of L A and Long Beach have figured they lost about 10 percent of bussiness due to the recent work stoppage over a new labor contract. Ships are heading to the gulf and east coast ports because products are getting to market faster. They are now looking too fully automated terminals to keep cost down and stay competitive. 

 It has effected cargo ships, it has not effected Royal's cost. Again talking about two different things here.

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 It has effected cargo ships, it has not effected Royal's cost. Again talking about two different things here.

 

What is the dollar amount on turnaround day for RCI in LA? It has affected not just cargo but also passenger vessels, Clearly stated by the port director!

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What is the dollar amount on turnaround day for RCI in LA? It has affected not just cargo but also passenger vessels, Clearly stated by the port director!

 

It is clear you really want to see Royal return to LA.... Sorry it is not going to happen anytime soon. Royals plans do not include LA. The Panama Canal has no effect on Royal Fleet other than when they want to move ships from USA coast. As for the port director his job is to get more business in his port, his job is not to look after the shareholders of Royal.

 

If you want to cruise from LA several other choices are offered on other lines.

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It is clear you really want to see Royal return to LA.... Sorry it is not going to happen anytime soon. Royals plans do not include LA. The Panama Canal has no effect on Royal Fleet other than when they want to move ships from USA coast. As for the port director his job is to get more business in his port, his job is not to look after the shareholders of Royal.

 

If you want to cruise from LA several other choices are offered on other lines.

The port director is a her not him. 

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The port director is a her not him. 

 Does not matter who the Port Director is.... As I have already said now several times, the Port Director wishes are meaningless in this case. The port director his/her job is to get more business in his port, his/her  job is not to look after the shareholders of Royal.

 

"Life is Better Cruising with Royal Caribbean"   Just not from the LA Port......

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tony's,

NCL is now cancelling all of their Mexican Riviera cruises. I was on one and it was a nightmare. I was told that they are not making money on Mexican cruises they want more exotic destinations so they are changing to Osnama Canal cruises. Now you will only have two cruise lines left.

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Speculate all you want, but I recommend reading this news post by RC's Vicki Freed about the prospects of RC returning to west coast: http://www.travelagentcentral.com/cruises/royal-caribbeans-vicki-freed-and-juan-silva-talk-trade-programs-53747

 

It's pretty clear to me the issue is mostly around RC cannot command the prices they want. Are there perhaps other side issues too? Sure.  But at the end of the day, they need to see west coast cruises as profitable for RC.

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  • 8 months later...

This expansion of the Long Beach Pier was announced a couple of months ago. And while exciting, it doesn't mean much for Royal as they sail out of the Port of Los Angeles. Further, they've repeatedly started that fares are too low to justify sailing out of California in the next few years.

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This expansion of the Long Beach Pier was announced a couple of months ago. And while exciting, it doesn't mean much for Royal as they sail out of the Port of Los Angeles. Further, they've repeatedly started that fares are too low to justify sailing out of California in the next few years.

 

Ive seen Vicki Freed's comments on the pricing and she is referencing the Baja route.  

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Good point. I still don't thing the current demand is there fire multiple ships unless they vary the itinerary and/or bring a newer ship to LA.

I tend to agree. RC CEO Michael Bayley commented on the prospects of a return to west coast and he said it doesn't make financial sense.  Essentially, they can make more money elsewhere.

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