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Cruises to Nowhere


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It has to do with the type of Visas the crew members hold. It essentially doesn't allow them, as they're from other countries on foreign flagged ships, to return back a US port without stopping first in a non US port. They did this previously before the US government clarified the rules.

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It not that they prohibited cruises to nowhere, it is because of the Jones Act. Put into simple terms the Jones Act was put into place to protect American interest and business. It says that it you want to use a ship for business within the Untied States it must be built and registered within the United States. In the early 1900's Maine ship builders making Lobster boats had a issue with issue with Lobstermen  purchasing boats from Canada. This was one of the driving forces behind the Jones Act.

 

So since the ships of Royal and most other cruise lines are built and flagged outside the United States they cannot operate within the United States without leaving first. So a ship can leave Florida and make a port stop in the Bahamas and return and the Jones Act is followed. But the same ship leaves Florida sails out and does not go into another country then they have not followed the law. This is a very simple explanation the acts has many part so if interest just look it up.  

 

So changes and special exceptions have been done within the act. Like a foreign built ship can get flagged in the US and meet the Jones Act. But it needs to be done through a act of Congress granting that ship the ability to be Flagged in the United States. It is done more often than you would think. Many people with yachts have this done so they can charter and rent them.

 

The MV Maersk Alabama was re flagged to be a US Ship, the ship privates took several years ago and the US Navy Seals rescued the captain and killed the privates.  The negative side of re flagging to United States is the Ship must meet all US Safety Standards, must pass very hard Coast Guard Inspections, and must follow all US laws. So the ships crew must all be paid and will worked under the US laws. It greatly increases the cost to operate and only a few small coastal lines and the Cruise ships that stay in Hawaii  get US Flagged.

 

If interest in the Jones Act here is a good link:
 

http://www.maritimelawcenter.com/html/the_jones_act.html

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Thanks, I now understand the logic of the D-1 visa issue. I wonder also what financial impact the cruise lines would suffer in the event that US companies like Royal registered their vessels in the US, and how, in such an event our government would further inhibit commerce through the imposition of regulation that may be designed apparently more for land based jobs. I also wonder how the laws developed differently for maritime companies that come to the US in a different way than foreign airlines do in terms of safety requirements. That's my impression, at least.

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This is similar to DOT laws prohibiting Canadian/Mexican trucks from operating within the U.S. They may only deliver freight to U.S. locations from outside the U.S. and pick up freight going BACK to their countries. They may NOT pick up freight from an American city and deliver to another city within the U.S.

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Thanks, I now understand the logic of the D-1 visa issue. I wonder also what financial impact the cruise lines would suffer in the event that US companies like Royal registered their vessels in the US, and how, in such an event our government would further inhibit commerce through the imposition of regulation that may be designed apparently more for land based jobs. I also wonder how the laws developed differently for maritime companies that come to the US in a different way than foreign airlines do in terms of safety requirements. That's my impression, at least.

 

Well lets just look at the cost of a cabin attendant. When Royal hires someone for this job they pay them about US$1300 dollars per month. They work about 12 hours a day and work seven days a week most of the time. If you change them to a US employed worker even at a minimum wage of $7.00 per hour, now you can only work 8 hours a day before overtime. So the 12 hour day costs them now  about $100 dollars, just in this one case the cost is almost 300% higher. 

 

Many other rules come into place and the workers get standing with US Courts and the US Government, workers comp, insurance, and many other things. Overall the cost will go much higher. And you do not even want to know how much more involved the USCG because not only into inspection but ship operation, design, officers. You will not see major cruise lines operating as US Flagged Ships anytime soon.

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It not that they prohibited cruises to nowhere, it is because of the Jones Act. Put into simple terms the Jones Act was put into place to protect American interest and business. It says that it you want to use a ship for business within the Untied States it must be built and registered within the United States. In the early 1900's Maine ship builders making Lobster boats had a issue with issue with Lobstermen  purchasing boats from Canada. This was one of the driving forces behind the Jones Act.

 

So since the ships of Royal and most other cruise lines are built and flagged outside the United States they cannot operate within the United States without leaving first. So a ship can leave Florida and make a port stop in the Bahamas and return and the Jones Act is followed. But the same ship leaves Florida sails out and does not go into another country then they have not followed the law. This is a very simple explanation the acts has many part so if interest just look it up.  

 

So changes and special exceptions have been done within the act. Like a foreign built ship can get flagged in the US and meet the Jones Act. But it needs to be done through a act of Congress granting that ship the ability to be Flagged in the United States. It is done more often than you would think. Many people with yachts have this done so they can charter and rent them.

 

The MV Maersk Alabama was re flagged to be a US Ship, the ship privates took several years ago and the US Navy Seals rescued the captain and killed the privates.  The negative side of re flagging to United States is the Ship must meet all US Safety Standards, must pass very hard Coast Guard Inspections, and must follow all US laws. So the ships crew must all be paid and will worked under the US laws. It greatly increases the cost to operate and only a few small coastal lines and the Cruise ships that stay in Hawaii  get US Flagged.

 

If interest in the Jones Act here is a good link:

 

http://www.maritimelawcenter.com/html/the_jones_act.html

FYI Its not the jones act its the PSVA. Jones act is more for cargo ships PSVA is for passenger Vessels. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

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The Jones Act is the reason. If you really want to go into this you cannot use a foreign flagged ship for charter with a crew. You can provide a bare boat charter (No Crew) But that is not what happens on a cruise. If it was just the PVSA they would pay the fine and offer these cruises.

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 says:  No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $200 (now $300) for each passenger so transported and landed. 

 

Which was before the Jones Act, but after the Jones Act it is not only the penalty under the PVSA but the violations of the Jones Act it leads too. Yes they can transport between the same port but if the do the fine comes in and then if done as part of regular business the later provisions of the Jones Act could come into play. I do not see to many American Crew members on these ships. 

 

 

The Jones Act is the everyday name for Section 27 of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (46 U.S.C. 883; 19 CFR 4.80 and 4.80b). Its intent is  to promote a healthy U.S-Flag fleet and protect that fleet from unfair foreign competition, the Jones Act requires that cargo moving between U.S. ports be carried in a vessel that was built in the United States and is owned (at least 75 percent) by American citizens or corporations. Since the Jones Act vessels are registered in the United States, our general labor and immigration laws require that crewmembers be American citizens or legal aliens

 

Does the Jones Act apply to passengers?  The Act, no; the principle, yes. What is known as the Passenger Vessel Act (PSA) of 1886 (46 U.S.C. 289) states that “no foreign vessel shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, under penalty of $200 for each passenger so transported or landed.â€

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CBP 

 

The Jones Act is the reason. If you really want to go into this you cannot use a foreign flagged ship for charter with a crew. You can provide a bare boat charter (No Crew) But that is not what happens on a cruise. If it was just the PVSA they would pay the fine and offer these cruises.

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 says:  No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $200 (now $300) for each passenger so transported and landed. 

 

Which was before the Jones Act, but after the Jones Act it is not only the penalty under the PVSA but the violations of the Jones Act it leads too. Yes they can transport between the same port but if the do the fine comes in and then if done as part of regular business the later provisions of the Jones Act could come into play. I do not see to many American Crew members on these ships. 

 

 

The Jones Act is the everyday name for Section 27 of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (46 U.S.C. 883; 19 CFR 4.80 and 4.80b). Its intent is  to promote a healthy U.S-Flag fleet and protect that fleet from unfair foreign competition, the Jones Act requires that cargo moving between U.S. ports be carried in a vessel that was built in the United States and is owned (at least 75 percent) by American citizens or corporations. Since the Jones Act vessels are registered in the United States, our general labor and immigration laws require that crewmembers be American citizens or legal aliens

 

Does the Jones Act apply to passengers?  The Act, no; the principle, yes. What is known as the Passenger Vessel Act (PSA) of 1886 (46 U.S.C. 289) states that “no foreign vessel shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, under penalty of $200 for each passenger so transported or landed.â€

 

My understanding of the defination "cruise to nowhere" we are talking about paying passengers embarking and disembarking a cruise ship with out visiting a foreign port or a distant foreign port?

 

CBP will use the PVSA act not the Jones act for paying passengers on a cruise ship. 

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/709/related/1/~/does-cbp-fine-cruise-ships-that-allow-passengers-to-disembark-before-the-end-of

 

 

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/24/related/1/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNDU3Mjg0ODAzL3NpZC9FdFNORE9LbQ%3D%3D/~/does-cbp-fine-cruise-ships-that-allow-passengers-to-disembark-before-the-end-of

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"So understand "cruise to nowhere" we are talking about paying passengers embarking and disembarking a cruise ship?

 

CBP will use the PVSA act not the Jones act for paying passengers on a cruise ship."

 

It is also the Jones Act, while other laws may have effect and do the main reason behind it  is the Jones Act of  1920. But I'm not a Admiralty Law Lawyer and I do not believe you are either ?   So in these cases I reach out to experts in the field. From one of the leading Admiralty Law Lawyers in the country: 

 

"The reason is because there is a Federal law which prohibits foreign flagged ships from coastwise trade between U.S. ports.  Only U.S. flagged ship can do that.  The thought at one time was that such a law would promote U.S. shipping by providing preferential treatment of US vessels over "foreign" vessels.

 

Jones Act - Cabotage - U.S. Shipping - Cruise Ship The law in question is the Merchant Marine Act of 1920.  This is a U.S. Federal statute which regulates maritime commerce in U.S. waters and between U.S. ports.  Section 27, known as the Jones Act, deals with the concept of "cabotage" (coastal shipping).  The law requires that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried in U.S.-flag ships, constructed in the United States, owned by U.S. citizens, and crewed by U.S. citizens. "
 
The full text of his comments can be found here:
 
 
And while some may not like hearing it passengers are goods, the cargo on a cruise ship is the passengers. Now if a member of this site who is also a  member of the federal bar and practices Marine/ Admiralty law before the US Federal Courts, wants  wants to post and says this information is wrong I would welcome and listen to it. But Until that happens I will stand by what I have posted.
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From your story which  I must point out not done by a Admiralty Law Lawyer:

 

"Therefore, D-1 visa holders are not eligible to serve as crew members aboard ‘cruises to nowhere,’ and such cruises must be staffed by U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents authorized to work in the United States.â€"

 

The requirement to be staffed by US Citizens or lawful permanent  residents authorized to work in the United States" comes directly from the Jones Act. 

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