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On 8/18/2019 at 8:36 AM, KathyC said:

I've been driving myself crazy with that same thing.  Flying from NJ to Miami.  We will not drive to JFK or LGA to fly south - no lower price is worth the time, traffic & tolls.  So we look at EWR, PHL, AC and even ABE.  Won't fly Trenton as they cancel those flights a lot.  We look at flying into MIA, FLL, PBI and even MCO.

As a fellow Central Jersey type, I feel this pain so deeply.  An interesting and rare additional possibility: Boscov & Apple fly (or at least used to fly) charter Disney flights outs of Reading Regional Airport from time to time.  ONCE I was able to latch on to the charter as an air-only option as the dates lined up for me.  It was like half the price of flying from PHL, and that included spending the night before at the Holiday Inn Express across the parking lot (where I was allowed to leave my car for no charge!).  The stars have to align just right, but when they do it's pretty sweet!

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2 hours ago, FManke said:

I need some advice from seasoned international flyers. Flying to Italy next year for the first time. Does booking 6mos out seem like a reasonable time frame? I know that flight prices can jump all over the place without rhyme or reason. I would just like to book a flight at a fare price. I need to have a guaranteed seat. I am not one of those people who can, pun or no pun intended, depends how you look at it, fly by the seat of my pants. I'll pay a little extra for the peace of mind.

I know like booking a cruise, at some point you just have to pull the trigger and don't look back.

To me, six months seems reasonable. I still haven't found much evidence of the "90 day" rule. I find a fare that seems good to me, and I don't look back (unless the fare can be changed without big fees). To be aware that, at six months out, schedules themselves may still change...but I've had a schedule change at one month out, so you never really know.

 

 

2 hours ago, AshleyDillo said:

Track the prices for a little bit.  Google Flights has a graph that pulls the prices so you can see how they trend.  Check what they are 2, 3, and 6 months out right now and see if you can tell where a sweet spot is.  You can also pick up on things like Tuesday flights are always the cheapest and Sundays are highest, etc.  Just gives you a bit of reference to know when to start paying attention and take the gamble.

While there are certainly trends, I would hold off on saying things like "Tuesday flights are always cheapest" or "Sundays are highest". Different markets, different times of year, and different demands can very much change this. The peak day/highest fare day for one destination may be the lowest day/fare for another (One example would be Saturday's to somewhere like Cancun being peak, but Saturday's to a business destination may be low, even if it's the same exact date).

 

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On 8/18/2019 at 5:35 AM, Tim B. said:

This is very interesting topic as I thought I was the only one (of course I knew that wasn't the case) looking at these high prices and wondering if driving to Miami may be the answer. It is 14 1/2 hours from my house and that is doable just not as convenient. My cruise is March 8, 2020 out of Miami on Oasis of the Seas. I have a wide-range to look at from D.C. area airports to Richmond Virginia, and even my local airport, Charlottesville, VA. The flights that are within decent price range have me going on all over the place to include LaGuardia, and Philadelphia to go south to Miami. In March old-man weather can generate all kinds of weather that can stop you; but, normally going south first helps. Well, so far driving is starting to look better and better every day.  We shall see ?

If you are thinking of driving, you might want to look at the Amtrak Auto train. It leaves out of Lorton and arrives just outside Orlando. We did this option in February when we spent a week in Orlando for break. I was easy, the kids thought it was quite the adventure.  Basically the train departs at 4pm, and you wake up in Flarida. The train brings your car with you as well so you dont have to worry about a rental. When we looked at flights for February, even with booking the Family Suite on the train which is the most expensive, it was 1/2 the cost of flights, and we didnt have to worry about renting a car as well.

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38 minutes ago, Zacharius said:

I still haven't found much evidence of the "90 day" rule.

I have to say that from what I've read here, the 90-day rule doesn't apply at all to international flights like what @FManke is looking for. I'm in a similar situation, where I need to book my one-way return flight from Dublin as soon as the fares open up early next month. I plan to use the Flights By Celebrity option (basically the same as Air2Sea), as that program also is reported to give excellent one-way fares compared to direct booking with the airlines or places like Kayak, and has the option of not paying until final payment date so that if there is a price drop I can simply reprice at the lower fare.

@FManke, I'm guessing your flight will be round-trip rather than one-way, but you may want to look at Air2Sea for the same reasons. Then you can just book as soon as the fares are available and lock down your tickets (though not seats until you've paid), and after that just watch for price drops and pay it when you feel you've crossed whatever time threshold you think is the "point of no return" for pricing.

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10 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

I have to say that from what I've read here, the 90-day rule doesn't apply at all to international flights like what @FManke is looking for. I'm in a similar situation, where I need to book my one-way return flight from Dublin as soon as the fares open up early next month. I plan to use the Flights By Celebrity option (basically the same as Air2Sea), as that program also is reported to give excellent one-way fares compared to direct booking with the airlines or places like Kayak, and has the option of not paying until final payment date so that if there is a price drop I can simply reprice at the lower fare.

@FManke, I'm guessing your flight will be round-trip rather than one-way, but you may want to look at Air2Sea for the same reasons. Then you can just book as soon as the fares are available and lock down your tickets (though not seats until you've paid), and after that just watch for price drops and pay it when you feel you've crossed whatever time threshold you think is the "point of no return" for pricing.

@JLMoran that's seems to be a good strategy. So if I book with Air2Sea, I can book the flights I want and then I don't have to pay until I want to? They will hold those flights until I pay?

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1 minute ago, FManke said:

So if I book with Air2Sea, I can book the flights I want and then I don't have to pay until I want to? They will hold those flights until I pay?

That does appear to be the new program, yes, for both Royal and Celebrity. The only caveat as I understand it is that you cannot select your seats (assuming the airline normally allows this pre-checkin) until after you have paid. Before payment, you simply have a held reservation for the seat class you selected.

When I go to the initial page for Air2Sea reservations, I see in the lower right a graphic that says "Book Now, Pay Later. Refundable Fares, Flexible Flights. Look for flights with the green star."

1029132265_PayLater.thumb.png.4985689b222e6a1c4994d527861be5ec.png

So it seems it doesn't apply to every flight, only specific ones they offer this benefit. I also checked the policies page to try and get as much clarity as possible, and see this:

Quote

Change Policies

Refundable Tickets

  • Your ticket can be changed without penalties or fees, prior to cruise final payment date (approx. 90 days to cruise date) by cancelling and rebooking a new reservation (Specific flights and fares are not guaranteed through this process, as the new reservation will be based on new available inventory & fares at the time of booking).  
  • After cruise final payment date (approx. 90 days to cruise date) or accelerated ticketing requested by guest, there will be a $ 200.00 dollar penalty plus any fare difference to make the change.

Cancellation Policies

Refundable Tickets

  • Ticket is fully refundable prior to cruise final payment date (approx. 90 days to cruise date).  
  • After cruise final payment date (approx. 90 days to cruise date) or accelerated ticketing requested by guest, the total value of the ticket will be refunded less a $ 200.00 dollar non-refundable penalty.

Choice Air, Air2Sea, and Flights by Celebrity Offer Cancellation Terms:

Refundable Tickets

  • Ticket is NOT subject to a Choice Air, Air2Sea, or Flights by Celebrity cancellation fee. 

 

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4 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

That does appear to be the new program, yes, for both Royal and Celebrity. The only caveat as I understand it is that you cannot select your seats (assuming the airline normally allows this pre-checkin) until after you have paid. Before payment, you simply have a held reservation for the seat class you selected.

When I go to the initial page for Air2Sea reservations, I see in the lower right a graphic that says "Book Now, Pay Later. Refundable Fares, Flexible Flights. Look for flights with the green star."

1029132265_PayLater.thumb.png.4985689b222e6a1c4994d527861be5ec.png

So it seems it doesn't apply to every flight, only specific ones they offer this benefit. I also checked the policies page to try and get as much clarity as possible, and see this:

 

Thanks @JLMoran I'll definitely look into it when it comes time.

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We're not flying international, but I second @AshleyDillo - Google Flights is amazing and very user friendly.  

We're in Canada and have specific dates and times, so not much flexible, and we prefer to fly out of our home town rather than drive across the border where it's cheaper.  Our flights with taxes to MCO are currently $725.00 per person, but our cruise isn't until Feb 2020, so I have I have alerts set and a cut off date to book.

@Qaylun - love your avatar (Raptors fan too) - that's pricey tickets to Miami!  I never heard of Air Canada Rouge - must check it out!

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Sea2air hasn't worked for me flying out of Canada to the US...anytime I checked the prices were the same or higher. a bonus wuld no tbe having to ay for them till the cruise is due so that is something to think about for future cruising I suppose.

 

@raahc...I don't know where in Canada you live, but out here on the east coast flights are usually $500-$700ish for us....across the border they will range from $75-$300 so a big savings....might be worth checking out again.

 

As for Air Canda Rouge...its a farce...started out years ago as a "discount" option to compete with charter airlines like Sunwing and Air Transat...less room....more seats...less features and options.....supposedly for a cheaper price....NEVER was...and now usually almost all flights to vacation cities are on Rouge...surprised you haven't noticed that yet if you travel at all..been years now like that.

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15 hours ago, Zacharius said:

Different markets, different times of year, and different demands can very much change this. The peak day/highest fare day for one destination may be the lowest day/fare for another (One example would be Saturday's to somewhere like Cancun being peak, but Saturday's to a business destination may be low, even if it's the same exact date).

True, but the Google Flights graph I'm referencing is for a specific destination to destination flight and for a set number of days.  It is a helpful tool..but just that..a TOOL.

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We specifically picked a cruise out of Boston so we wouldn't have to fly or spend a night in a hotel (we live 30 miles from the port).  All combined, we're probably paying at least $1,000 less than if we had to get to NJ or FL.  This is the 1st cruise where we didn't have to factor the travel cost into the budget.  I wish RC had more sailings out of Boston.

Now if we can just find a friend to drive us there and back, we can save $140 for parking.

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12 minutes ago, monctonguy said:

As for Air Canda Rouge...its a farce...started out years ago as a "discount" option to compete with charter airlines like Sunwing and Air Transat...less room....more seats...less features and options.....supposedly for a cheaper price....NEVER was...and now usually almost all flights to vacation cities are on Rouge...surprised you haven't noticed that yet if you travel at all..been years now like that.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. From day one, Air Canada Rouge was meant to be a lower cost option...for Air Canada. It was a way to lower their CASM to compete against other airlines...put more seats in the same plane, and you end up with a lower cost per available seat mile. Sure, you may have to add a flight attendant or two, but in reality that's not a huge expense. It's a bit like Southwest being a "low cost carrier"...the low cost was always the operating cost, not necessarily the ticket cost to the passenger.

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18 hours ago, FManke said:

Does booking 6mos out seem like a reasonable time frame?

Flew to Italy this past June and actually bought way far out because I caught a glitch. For three days it posted a price that was about half of what it had been ($800 from $1600). I still checked the prices quite a bit after I purchased my tickets, I think it was six months out, actually I think it was more but my mind is drawing a blank. Anyway, I tracked the prices for at least six months and not counting the glitch I only saw the rates go to about 1300-1400 but never much below that. Basically you're taking a gamble whenever you buy tickets hoping you got the best deal.

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1 hour ago, ellcee said:

Flew to Italy this past June and actually bought way far out because I caught a glitch. For three days it posted a price that was about half of what it had been ($800 from $1600). I still checked the prices quite a bit after I purchased my tickets, I think it was six months out, actually I think it was more but my mind is drawing a blank. Anyway, I tracked the prices for at least six months and not counting the glitch I only saw the rates go to about 1300-1400 but never much below that. Basically you're taking a gamble whenever you buy tickets hoping you got the best deal.

I looked at it this year about 6mos out and could get airfare from Chicago for about $700, with flight times that were inline with our needs. Hopefully next year will be about the same, but you never know. 

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1 minute ago, ellcee said:

That's amazing. I went peak season and had very specific times for flying. Fingers crossed for you.

Just now, FManke said:

We're going in Oct. That's a big difference. 

This is what worries me with flying home from Dublin. It'll be mid-August, peak tourist season for that area. ?

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1 hour ago, Zacharius said:

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. From day one, Air Canada Rouge was meant to be a lower cost option...for Air Canada. It was a way to lower their CASM to compete against other airlines...put more seats in the same plane, and you end up with a lower cost per available seat mile. Sure, you may have to add a flight attendant or two, but in reality that's not a huge expense. It's a bit like Southwest being a "low cost carrier"...the low cost was always the operating cost, not necessarily the ticket cost to the passenger.

 

 

What???..what am I missing here????!!

 

No..it was never cheaper....Air Canada stopped flying their regular planes to these places....so you couldn't really compare..but as someone who travels to the US and Caribbean multiple times a year I am familiar with pricing and options.

 

Basically..they were able to charge Canadians the same amount as always....and offer less services and room..brilliant on Air Canada's part...but that's NOT how they tried to sell it..as a cheaper flight for Air Canda but not the customer..lol.....come on now. I hope no one here would be stupid enough to fall for that.

 

The point of being a low cost carrier is to offer the customer a cheaper flight...albeit with less options and paying extra for add-ons......the trade off is supposed to be a lower ticket price.....

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 6:47 PM, Qaylun said:

My flight (Round Trip) to Miami from Toronto Pearson on March 13, 2020 is an outrageous $1,000 CAD per person, and thats even on Air Canada's "discount/budget" option, Air Canada Rouge!

Did you consider flying from YYZ to FLL? 

Sometimes Air Transat have decent prices direct to FFL from YYZ but their flight times are horrible. 

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What are your thoughts about Air Canada Rouge in general? One of the flight options flying in and out of Toronto and/or Montreal on first and last leg of trip to Venice next year. Figured, it's a short flight either way, so how bad can it be?

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3 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Basically..they were able to charge Canadians the same amount as always....and offer less services and room..brilliant on Air Canada's part...but that's NOT how they tried to sell it..as a cheaper flight for Air Canda but not the customer..lol.....come on now. I hope no one here would be stupid enough to fall for that.

 

The point of being a low cost carrier is to offer the customer a cheaper flight...albeit with less options and paying extra for add-ons......the trade off is supposed to be a lower ticket price.....

The way they tried to market it and the way they tried to operate it are two different things. If they had come out and said "hey, we have this new airline...basically, we're going to charge you the same and give you less", it would have been dead from the start. But by marketing it as an alternative to (a) "regular" Air Canada, and (b) other Canadian airlines, it had (and still has) legs. But the internal purpose was always the same - to lower costs for Air Canada, not the passenger. That's what I was getting at.

And I still stand behind my statement that "low cost carrier" can have two meanings - the obvious (lower ticket costs for the traveler), and the not so obvious (lower costs for the airline...with our without a lower cost to the passenger). The latter is Air Canada Rouge.

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Well then here is no purpose to ever fly Rouge...why would you?..unless you're gullible enough to pay the same price for less....

 

But now there is pretty much no options....flying out of many cities in Canada they use Rouge now...

 

Hence why we always travel to the US for flights..way more options but bottom line is price...

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Just now, monctonguy said:

Well then here is no purpose to ever fly Rouge...why would you?..unless you're gullible enough to pay the same price for less....

 

But now there is pretty much no options....flying out of many cities in Canada they use Rouge now...

 

Hence why we always travel to the US for flights..way more options but bottom line is price...

I agree, I wouldn't fly Rouge for the same price. But that's kinda the trick they've pulled...are there any routes where Rouge and "regular" operate together so that you can compare? I think a new domestic routes, but I can't think of many/any outside of Canada.

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2 hours ago, FManke said:

What are your thoughts about Air Canada Rouge in general? One of the flight options flying in and out of Toronto and/or Montreal on first and last leg of trip to Venice next year. Figured, it's a short flight either way, so how bad can it be?

I would take a look at their website....compare seat sizes..leg room...no back seat entertainment....very basic if any amenities.....which is ok if its way cheaper....but its not...at least not in Canada/USA/Caribbean.....perhaps to Europe its different...(not the planes, the pricing)

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In general, Canadian "budget" airlines are a sham. As many have already mentioned, Air Canada Rouge charges the same price for a lower quality flight overall, however we really don't have much of a choice. Us Canadians also have another budget airline called Swoop, which is owned by WestJet, and this I have found to be even worse! Swoop was created to compete with the super-ultra low cost budget bottom of the barrel airlines in Canada, namely Flair airlines. Out of curiosity, I checked this airline, which doesn't even fly out of Toronto, but Hamilton instead, which is around 2 hours away by drive from Toronto. They do not fly to Miami, which is where my cruise is leaving, but Ft. Lauderdale instead as well. The round trip ended up being $50 cheaper that Air Canada Rouge, so much for big savings! The really funny part was their own parent organization, West Jet, had flights from Toronto to Miami, as well as Toronto to Ft. Lauderdale, for only $50 more as well. 

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6 hours ago, Rose City Cruiser said:

Did you consider flying from YYZ to FLL? 

Sometimes Air Transat have decent prices direct to FFL from YYZ but their flight times are horrible. 

I checked Air Transat before, and decide to check again, and it is $2000 round trip, with the horrible flight times you mention. Time to rent a car, lol!

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9 hours ago, monctonguy said:

Sea2air hasn't worked for me flying out of Canada to the US...anytime I checked the prices were the same or higher. a bonus wuld no tbe having to ay for them till the cruise is due so that is something to think about for future cruising I suppose.

 

@raahc...I don't know where in Canada you live, but out here on the east coast flights are usually $500-$700ish for us....across the border they will range from $75-$300 so a big savings....might be worth checking out again.

 

As for Air Canda Rouge...its a farce...started out years ago as a "discount" option to compete with charter airlines like Sunwing and Air Transat...less room....more seats...less features and options.....supposedly for a cheaper price....NEVER was...and now usually almost all flights to vacation cities are on Rouge...surprised you haven't noticed that yet if you travel at all..been years now like that.

I 100% agree AC Rouge is a complete joke. I actually travel with them a lot however, as I visit my place in Florida twice a year. This allows my family to purchase a flight pass, and with 5 of us and 20 one way trips included in the pass, it works out to two round trips perfectly. The advantage to the flight pass is I get to travel anytime I want, which is always during peak season because of school, for a set price, which is half of what I would pay to book these specific dates without the flight pass. I will again be using a flight pass, however this cruise is a large family cruise, and some of the extended family is facing the problem of paying $1000 per person to fly from Toronto, which is why I posted this here. 

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On 8/20/2019 at 2:42 PM, USCG Teacher said:

As a fellow Central Jersey type, I feel this pain so deeply.  An interesting and rare additional possibility: Boscov & Apple fly (or at least used to fly) charter Disney flights outs of Reading Regional Airport from time to time.  ONCE I was able to latch on to the charter as an air-only option as the dates lined up for me.  It was like half the price of flying from PHL, and that included spending the night before at the Holiday Inn Express across the parking lot (where I was allowed to leave my car for no charge!).  The stars have to align just right, but when they do it's pretty sweet!

Yep, Boscov's Travel still does those Disney Charters (I've done about 10 of them) out of Reading Regional (I lived in the area). Used to be US Airways, now being done by Southwest. 

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19 hours ago, monctonguy said:

I would take a look at their website....compare seat sizes..leg room...no back seat entertainment....very basic if any amenities.....which is ok if its way cheaper....but its not...at least not in Canada/USA/Caribbean.....perhaps to Europe its different...(not the planes, the pricing)

It's just an option as the short leg between ORD and YYZ. 

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