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MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

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Not sure if anyone familiar with Freedom can tell from these screen captures from the news report showing the start of the investigation exactly where this is on the ship. It looks like there are a few windows open...

Bottom line, only after an adult lifts a child that high (estimating 4 feet or so above the deck) in the air could they possibly fall out. Unless you have extremely poor eyesight and cannot feel a breeze it's blatantly obvious when a window is open. Why would you even think of placing a child up against a glass/plexiglass pane in the first place? How is that cute or funny? You can also see all of the tables and chairs right behind the investigators... 

When we were in the Solarium on Allure, I immediately noticed the open windows (I recall they were higher of course) that they opened for circulation. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to notice them.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1150533/royal-caribbean-cruise-ship-freedom-of-the-seas-death-baby-girl-san-juan-puerto-rico

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8 hours ago, Jolly Ogre said:

I heard on the news today that the family is blaming RCCL due to having open windows that are hard to see next to the fixed glass ones. 

 

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I'm trying to understand how he did not notice that the window was open. I've heard reports that he couldn't tell there was no glass. I have a boat, never is the boat right up against the dock. A cruise ship is no different. The story changes that she fell into the water, she fell on a lower deck, she fell on the dock. This story keeps changing in a matter of hours. Shame on the lawyer to stand and look at a camera and bluntly say  "It's all RCL fault that this happen".  I'd like to see security footage of this. Can anyone tell me if there are security cameras on the ships.

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A show of hands— how many people strongly believe that Grandpa’s Seapass might have been used to purchase alcoholic beverages before this tragedy?

 

Lets see how many votes for contributory negligence we can get!!!

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Just now, bobroo said:

A show of hands— how many people strongly believe that Grandpa’s Seapass might have been used to purchase alcoholic beverages before this tragedy?

 

Lets see how many votes for contributory negligence we can get!!!

Attorney has stated grandpa does not drink.  He held a press conference and this question was asked.

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12 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I'm trying to understand how he did not notice that the window was open. I've heard reports that he couldn't tell there was no glass. I have a boat, never is the boat right up against the dock. A cruise ship is no different. The story changes that she fell into the water, she fell on a lower deck, she fell on the dock. This story keeps changing in a matter of hours. Shame on the lawyer to stand and look at a camera and bluntly say  "It's all RCL fault that this happen".  I'd like to see security footage of this. Can anyone tell me if there are security cameras on the ships.

There are security cameras *everywhere.* This was a public area. They would have also been on the dock.

I’m about 98% confident that RCCL has footage of the incident but is not releasing to the public (understandably). The family is grasping at straws. 

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At the end of the day until the investigation is complete and the full facts are known it is easy to speculate and jump to incorrect conclusions.

In New Zealand I think it would be very hard to find the cruise line negligent in this case as there is no obvious risk.

Where does negligence begin? If somebody spills a drink on the deck and I come along and slip on it and break my leg 10 minutes later, is the cruise line negligent for not cleaning it up in a timely manner even if they don't know its there.

Although people have fallen off ships in the past, this this the first I have heard to a circumstance like this so I struggle to see how a cruise line could reasonably be expected to predict this outcome. If you had to take into account every risk factor you wouldn't have stairs people could fall down, open balconies or open areas anywhere on a ship.

While tragic, I think the chance of it happening again in our lifetime is extremely remote.

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Does anyone know if the family's attorney is a defense or personal injury (ambulance chaser) or both?  When I first heard they had representation, I assumed it was to protect the grandfather during the investigation, which would make sense if he's facing possible prosecution.  But I don't know if defense attorneys are in the business of also filing lawsuits against major corporations, so that makes me wonder.  Or maybe they have more than one.

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3 minutes ago, Brobbins246 said:

Does anyone know if the family's attorney is a defense or personal injury (ambulance chaser) or both?  When I first heard they had representation, I assumed it was to protect the grandfather during the investigation, which would make sense if he's facing possible prosecution.  But I don't know if defense attorneys are in the business of also filing lawsuits against major corporations, so that makes me wonder.  Or maybe they have more than one.

Maritime law and personal injury... 

https://lawyers.justia.com/lawyer/michael-a-winkleman-1507627

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26 minutes ago, F1guynz said:

At the end of the day until the investigation is complete and the full facts are known it is easy to speculate and jump to incorrect conclusions.

In New Zealand I think it would be very hard to find the cruise line negligent in this case as there is no obvious risk.

The US is very litigious by nature.  It's very common to file lawsuits with intentions of an out of court settlement.  Often it's less expensive for a company to settle rather than face prolonged legal battles that cost significant sums paid to lawyers to defend.  This attorney has stated they ALWAYS have around 100 active cases in play against Royal.  This is one firm.   How many other firms have 100 cases filed?   How many cases do they have filed against other cruise lines? It's a full time job for a firm full of lawyers. 

This attorney claims he is the reason why Royal has lifeguards on it's ships now.  

In this case the attorney has already started presenting his case in the press conference.  He pointed out that there are no signs warning that a window might be nearby.  He is also working hard to establish this occurred in a kids play area.

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Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/royal-caribbean-cruise-ship-death-indiana-family-of-girl-attorney-speaks-today-2019-07-09/

The father captured pictures and videos of the area before leaving the ship that the attorney was offering to the media.

Attorney press conference :

 

 

 

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We just saw the story on TV on ABC news. The glass near the H2O zone is tinted green as you look from the inside out and this occurred during bright daylight... how the heck do you not see that the window is open??? It’s pretty dark tint!

Their attorney stated the grandfather lifted the toddler up onto the railing so she could get right up against the glass... she liked to be up against glass (they showed a picture of her at one of her siblings hockey games pressed up against the board glass). They also stated they wanted to see the surveillance video before they decide if they will go forward with the suit against RC...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/indiana-toddler-died-cruise-ship-fall-grandpa-thought/story?id=64212610&cid=clicksource_4380645_null_twopack_image

... and here is where I whole-heartedly disagree with their attorney... standing on the hand railing pushing on the glass ??? Yes... it's very unreasonable and extremely irresponsible to say the least.

I never knew hand railings were meant for standing on... and toddlers could not possibly reach those railings without help from an adult!

Quote: 

"Why would you ever in a kids play area put windows that passengers can open?" Winkleman said. "I don't think it's unreasonable to put a child there thinking there's glass."

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This is ridiculous to blame the cruise line for the grandparents negligence. I just recently went on my first RCCL and we noticed every open window immediately. Why?   Let’s see.... the windows are tinted and there is a breeze!! It can be hot has poop outside but you still feel a breeze coming through. 

The pool is a play area, not a window and not a railing. You do not ever place a child on a rail and say play. There are lounge chairs and tables.... where is it a play zone? 

I feel terrible for the family and can never image the loss of a child. Put the blame where it needs to be - the grandfather not the cruise line. 

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I know we are all RC fans but these people have been through hell, they dont want to believe it's anyone they loves fault and need to blame someone, Its human nature. Give the poor people time to grieve which would be a hell of a long time.  2 days of comments ridiculing the grandfather for dangling the child out the window, now if thats not true I dont see any of them apologising. Show some compassion.

 

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It is a horrible tragedy that this child lost her life. But where was the common sense in what the grandfather did?  There is an obvious breeze from the open window. The open window was high off the ground. What in his mind made him think hanging a child out any window was acceptable?  Perhaps he should not have been entrusted with the supervision of such a small child in the 1st place. 

Royal Caribbean is at no fault here!!! 

Instead of hiring an ambulance chasing lawyer right away, you’d think planning a funeral would take priority.   

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The accusations against the cruise line are most likely all smoke and mirrors. The grandfather may likely face prison time

for criminal negligence. After a tragedy like this, a reasonable person would seek out a defense attorney. I would not doubt it if this attorney was

found to try to deflect blame. What other defense would they have. There were plenty of witnesses and likely a recording. It's probably the best they could come

up with to help grandpa.

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Quote

"Why would you ever in a kids play area put windows that passengers can open?" Winkleman said. "I don't think it's unreasonable to put a child there thinking there's glass."

Point of order: In the photos posted here of the area where it happened, I don’t see a window pane a passenger can open. All the square panels are either glassed in and immovable, or completely open. Seeing as this area on deck 11 is mostly open space to begin with, not much point in having a window that opens and closes and thus the design that we see.

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I can understand why they would get an attorney. 1000's of news outlets and people have already weighed in and tried and convicted the grandfather based on 2 line news articles. The only chance they have of controlling the narrative is to have someone present their side to the media and public. And, this way they can grieve out of spotlight while he deals with public and media for them. No matter the blame or fault its a tragic death that wasn't intentional but has probably destroyed this whole family's lives. 

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Praying for this family.  Praying also for the crew on Freedom of the Sea's.  My wife and I have cruised on Freedom 3 times since 2003.  Freedom and the crew is one of the best of the 10 RCCL cruise ships we have been on.  I know these window and I am positive that this is Truly a very tragic accident.  As a grandfather, I can't wait to bring my 4 yr old granddaughter on her first cruise.  I know it will be RCCL and I hope it will be Freedom of the Sea's.  Leaving Aug. 11 on similar ship Liberty of the Sea's .  

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3 hours ago, bretts173 said:

I know we are all RC fans but these people have been through hell, they dont want to believe it's anyone they loves fault and need to blame someone, Its human nature. Give the poor people time to grieve which would be a hell of a long time.  2 days of comments ridiculing the grandfather for dangling the child out the window, now if thats not true I dont see any of them apologising. Show some compassion.

 

I don’t think the judgement would be so harsh if the family didn’t hire a law firm that sues royal regularly immediately after the tragedy happened. 

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