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MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

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I'm reading an essay in The New Yorker by Atul Gawande about brain function, and it says, ". . . visual perception is more than ninety per cent memory and less than ten per cent sensory nerve signals." Also, "The mind integrates scattered, weak, rudimentary signals from a variety of sensory channels, information from past experiences, and hard-wired processes, and produces a sensory experience full of brain-provided color, sound, texture, and meaning." and the bottom line, "Perception is inference."

We know this to be true. "Green" is only what our brains tell us, not necessarily what's out there. Maybe Grandpa really thought there was glass there, because of a defect in his neuro-perception or the information stored in his brain. 

Still, that's not RCCL's fault. RC cannot know what defects of thinking a passenger might have. So maybe it was just an unavoidable tragedy that's no one's fault. In time the family will catch on to the fact that Grandpa often doesn't know what's in front of him.

Poor Grandpa. Poor Chloe. Poor family. It's just sad all around. But certainly not RCCL's fault!!!!!!!!!!!

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3 minutes ago, tiny blonde said:

Maybe Grandpa really thought there was glass there, because of a defect in his neuro-perception or the information stored in his brain

Would have to be a hell of a defect, he stuck his head though the opening a minute or so before holding the child up to it

If his short term memory is that bad I wouldn't let him watch over my pen, never mind a kid

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1 minute ago, tiny blonde said:

Poor Grandpa. Poor Chloe. Poor family. It's just sad all around. But certainly not RCCL's fault!!!!!!!!!!!

I pray for that man, and his family. Pointing a finger is natural, and not surprising, as its nearly impossible to come to terms with admitting fault in such a tragedy. Unfortunately, the legal system is tasked with pointing the finger in the appropriate direction....and im not envious of anyone that has to participate. I feel for RCCL and the people that work for them, that are tasked with fighting it. THERE IS NO GOOD THAT COMES FROM ANY OF THIS, unless it prevents such a tragedy from happening to anyone else in the future. 

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I’m glad some of us here have the decency to say “poor Chloe.” She is the one who this story should be about. It makes me sad that this has delved into how the grandfather should get off* because he feels bad, and her parents trying to get every cent possible from Royal and be on TV whenever they can. No one seems to even notice that Chloe is dead because her grandfather made a careless mistake. I don’t care that she banged on the glass at hockey so her parents and grandfather think that’s OK on a ship. I don’t care that some public opinion says “oh lots of parents hold their kid up on railings!” 

*I’m not saying people here argue that Grandpa feels really bad and should get off without punishment. But spend a few minutes reading FB posts about this story and that seems to be the opinion of some. 

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7 hours ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

No one seems to even notice that Chloe is dead because her grandfather made a careless mistake.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with the use of "careless" here -- under the most casual of examination, this was anything but a careless mistake. It may not have been a deliberate action as some have worried, but it is absolutely demonstrative of a complete lack of common sense and good judgement. When the individual is lacking in that, any action they take cannot be described as "careless". Reckless and/or negligent? Absolutely. Flaunting authority? Possibly, given the grandfather is on the record as being someone who believes laws about seat belts and other safety-related rules of the road don't apply to him.

But careless? I refuse to accept that in the face of the mountain of evidence we've seen.

 

But one thing you are right about. Chloe is dead because of her grandfather's actions. And that is a tremendous tragedy no matter the circumstances.

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51 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

this was anything but a careless mistake. It may not have been a deliberate action as some have worried, 

Keep in mind, a short time after the incident(approximately within 48hrs) when this was headline news, there was a report, authorities was looking into the child's medical records. That suggested the authorities possibly looking into something more sinister.

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I have a lot of issues to accept that the Grandpa was only guilty of child endargement /negligent homicide. Look at the video I am attaching - he practically had all his upper torso out of the window for about 40 seconds. So our IT man had to know the window was open - https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/18/distressing-videos-show-moment-grandfather-dropped-toddler-death-off-cruise-ship-11929902/. CCTV cameras do not lie. If he can work as an IT person and drive  cars he can see and he is not that dumb and decrepit as the family lawyer presents. Also, the picture provided of the railing in front of the window and the narrow window ledge make my skin cringe - it is so narrow that I would not put there my purse or even a drink! Placing a toddler there is more than reckless homicide! Well, he loved her but she had some serious health problems which could spell bleak future for her. With all inconsistency, was it a mercy killing?

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Apparently the family's new talking point is that the grandfather could not lean out the window because of the distance between the rail and the window.  Maybe that's true, but it still does not change the fact he leaned far over that railing before picking the girl up and holding her far enough out that when she dropped, she dropped to the ground rather than between the rail and window on the ship.  No reasonable person could fault the cruise line.

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20 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

It seems obvious to me that this latest position is an attempt to have the video evidence thrown out.  

Apparently so. But clearly, if he had been holding her inboard of the window, she would not have fallen outboard of it.

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The family and atty think this would have been prevented by a warning sign.  If Mr. Anello was so visually impaired that he couldn't tell the difference between an open or closed window (not to mention all the other sensory cues we've talked about), would he have even seen the sign?  Did they need a sign on every window pane or dangling at eye level for the open windows where there's nothing to adhere to?

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5 hours ago, Clear Laker said:

This lawyer is desperate. Did his degree come from a cereal box? Yeah sure Royal is lying. I guess the surveillance video was made up and filmed with mannequins and extras? 😂 Seriously though. 

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5 hours ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

The family lawyer is employing the Schiff/Nadler offensive playbook...if one understand that, you understand what he's doing for the family....

 

🤨

 

Seriously? Did you really need to go there? This forum is a wonderful resource and imho should be politics free. 

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Daily Mail story with an interview from the doctor who went to help Chloe. It includes photos of the family lawyer’s re-enactment:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7922419/Doctor-cruise-ship-recalls-finding-toddlers-body-grandfather-dropped-her.html

The re-enactment photos still show that Chloe was held beyond the railing and the lawyer is insisting that Grandpa couldn’t have reached the window.

The doctor said that Grandpa didn’t need a sedative to calm down. You’d think he’d be more hysterical after doing such a tragic thing. 

The family is also asking for other cameras from the ship to be released and now stating the cameras’ presence was not disclosed to them at boarding. Is that even a thing? When I went on my last cruise, which was only back in November, i don’t recall anyone at the terminal or on the ship telling me that surveillance cameras were recording onboard areas.

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46 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

now stating the cameras’ presence was not disclosed to them at boarding

Might not be disclosed at boarding, but there are signs posted all around the ship (every ship), especially in the public areas like the pools, that make it clear there is CCTV and that everyone is being monitored for safety and security purposes.

They're grasping at the roots sticking out of the loose cliff wall, and the dirt surrounding those roots is crumbling rapidly...

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Regardless of any excuses and regardless of any legal outcome, this families fate is already sealed. Grandpa will always be known as the man that dropped his special needs baby step- granddaughter out a window and the parents will always be seen as blaming unaccepting sue happy people. The lawyer will be the sole winner. He got his 15 minutes of fame. Fortunately for a lawyer like him, any attention is good attention. 

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2 hours ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

now stating the cameras’ presence was not disclosed to them at boarding.

Am I reading too much in to that statement or does that sound sinister to anyone else?

If they knew about the camera, what? they would have chosen another window that a camera couldn't see?

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