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MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

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@teddy  I am 54.  If they are going to play that age game, than my kids should have me in assisted living right now.  Oh wait, no they don't want to do that bc guess what?  I just paid for 1 of their weddings only 6 weeks ago.  Oh, and who is going to babysit their babies?  Oh and silly me, how about those family vacays we pay for?  

This whole defense of age and vision is blowing up impo.  As the litigants, one of you is an attorney, one of you is a police officer, and both of you know his age and medical issues.  Are you saying, as a police officer, and you pulled him over for running a red light, you would accept color vision deficiency as a defense?  

Let me get this right.

Again, you, as a parent knowing that your stepfather has vision issues, and OLD allowed him to babysit your toddler?  Doesn't that actually bring into question you as a parent?  Maybe, he really is unhealthy, but you as a family member should have known his limitations.  You should have protected your child and him too.  

I have a fake knee and now a hip on the same leg.  We have a 3 yr old and 5 mos old grandbabies.  My husband and my kids, are protective of me around the little ones.  They will watch me like a hawk when I go to lift the 3 yr old bc they know 1 wrong bend and not only could I go down for the count, but the grandbaby I am holding will too.  They love me, but I think they are more concerned about the little one being injured.  Just saying, if you are rational, logical person with some intelligence as a parent, why did you let him watch your child knowing his age and medical limitations?  Seriously, my son and DIL, are within 2 steps of me when I am lifting the grandbabies...they are not paranoid millennials.  They are just parents that love their kids and me too.  They don't want me to hurt myself because I am that type of woman...hear me roar, I can do this....oh crap, I can't do that.  

OBTW and let me add, although we are loyal to Royal, we will do a Disney cruise in about 5 yrs. with the family for the grandbabies.  Why 5 yrs from now?  Simple.  I know the little ones.  I like balcony cabins.  I know me.  I would be paranoid the entire cruise of them getting too close to the railings.  I would never relax the entire trip.  It would be me looking around constantly and asking where is V and C?  

I know this is going off track, but I also kind of wonder...who paid for this trip?  Sounds crazy, but read me out.

Read above regarding family vacays.  My husband and I are fortunate.  We can afford at this point of life, pay to have family time together.   How many posters here or on other social media sites, do you read...we are traveling with my folks and they are paying for this trip?  Could it be, that the folks paid for the trip?  How do you rationalize this if they paid for the cruise?  How do you place guilt on the person that gifted you the cruise?  

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What is wrong with this family- they feed us one lie after another. Perhaps, they are unable to face the reality that the Grandpa reckless actions caused the death of the child or just want to get rich dunning RCL for the money:

1. They call the pool area baby play area although the CCTV video clearly shows the grandpa stood at the window next to the pool bar. We see adults at the counter and rows of pool chairs used  mostly by adults! Actually, I do not see too many children in the CCTV video.

2. RCL placed a railing across the length of the wall of windows the creating an 18 inches buffer zone between the windows and the cruisers for their safety. Since the Grandpa lifted her over the railing and put her on the window ledge she was NO LONGER  in the area designated as safe for cruisers and especially babies. So she was not at the BABY PLAY area!  During my several cruises, I never seen cruisers climbing on or over the railing or placing children on the window ledge! Please let me know whether you have seen parents placing children there?

3. Although he alleges that he was color blind, the video clearly shows him sticking his head and part of the torso OUTSIDE the window - he should know that window is open as he felt the breeze and did not feel the window pane present. As long as I live I did not met a person unable to determine whether window was open or close when they stick the head out of the window! It is not a color blindness but perhaps booze, opioids and other problems. For example, being totally reckless!

4. What difference it makes whether or not the 18 months old child asked her Grandpa to put her on the window ledge? If she was in the Zoo and asked him to put her in the lion cage so she could pet him- should the Grandpa do it? He supposed to ensure that the environment he puts the child in is safe and window ledge is never a safe baby play area. There was a railing placed by RCL to keep cruisers from the very windows.

The family arguments are becoming silly lies contradicting the actual evidence. Also,  we are not going to abandon a common sense to justify this oxymoron's mistakes. The Grandpa is guilty of the negligent homicide and RCL does not seem to owe the family millions they seek.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pima1988 said:

If you read the CBS link this is what the parents stated

"The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child"

I believe that this family sole motivation is making sure that their older child has obscenely rich parents.

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15 hours ago, Brobbins246 said:

+1, hoping someone can loosely translate the video commentary.  At least give a summary.  

But wow, you can read the FB comments posted by translating them onscreen.  A lot of the posters think this was premeditated.  I'm not sure I would go that far.

It was reported early on that the little girl had significant health issues at birth, perhaps there is something to that theory?

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First, people say they feel bad for the family, I no longer feel any sympathy for them, but I do for Chloe, what the final seconds of her life must of been like.  
 

Watching the video, it appears that the grandfather held Chloe out of the window.  He is responsible for her death, no matter how the family or lawyers want to spin it.  If they want to help other children, admit guilt and tell parents/grandparents about what happened and to not ever put a child in that situation, I would definitely feel differently towards the family if they would have reacted in that manner.  Even if they were deeply in shock when this happened and were not thinking when they agreed to be represented by the attorney, they have now had a chance to realize the grandfather’s actions caused their daughter’s death, and speak on how to make sure it never happens again.  Instead of anger, they would have my sympathy if everyone would have admitted it was a horrible accident and we want to learn from this.

 

  As it is now, Chloe will be remembered as the little girl who had parents that wanted to get rich off of her dying, instead of teaching us the risks involved when we don’t think before we act.

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3 hours ago, teddy said:

I’ve seen a few references around the web to his age, along with (not so) subtle hints that it may be a factor. 
 

50 isn’t old and senile.  Seriously, it’s not. 

Absolutely true, 50 is not old period!  Also, as an IT professional he uses computer monitors all day long so apparently his "color blindness" wasn't all that debilitating if he's able to use a computer monitor.  Besides, that excuse is just as much out the window as his head was (twice) on the video tape!  Reminds me of that show that was popular when grandpa was young, "Smile you're on candid camera!"

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1 hour ago, Jjohnb said:

It was reported early on that the little girl had significant health issues at birth, perhaps there is something to that theory?

This may be evil of me, but I do watch a lot of "Dateline." I remember a story about a family who killed their son and made it look like a disappearance. For some reason, that story has been haunting me since this whole tragedy began. The child had issues that were going to require special services for life. Could he have thought he'd be doing the family a favor if he staged an "accident?" 

But it couldn't have been pre-meditated, because he couldn't know what he'd find on the ship. (Had they cruised before?) And if he wanted to make it look like an accident, he would have waited until they were at sea. No, if it were pre-meditated, he would have done a better job of it. He was just unfit to be watching a child.

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49 minutes ago, PattiHere said:

First, people say they feel bad for the family, I no longer feel any sympathy for them, but I do for Chloe, what the final seconds of her life must of been like.  
 

Watching the video, it appears that the grandfather held Chloe out of the window.  He is responsible for her death, no matter how the family or lawyers want to spin it.  If they want to help other children, admit guilt and tell parents/grandparents about what happened and to not ever put a child in that situation, I would definitely feel differently towards the family if they would have reacted in that manner.  Even if they were deeply in shock when this happened and were not thinking when they agreed to be represented by the attorney, they have now had a chance to realize the grandfather’s actions caused their daughter’s death, and speak on how to make sure it never happens again.  Instead of anger, they would have my sympathy if everyone would have admitted it was a horrible accident and we want to learn from this.

 

  As it is now, Chloe will be remembered as the little girl who had parents that wanted to get rich off of her dying, instead of teaching us the risks involved when we don’t think before we act.

I feel so appalled that public opinion—and that of the family—isn’t focused AT ALL on Chloe. She is the real victim here. Not the parents looking for money. Not the grandfather and the hockey/colorblind/can’t see an open window defenses. A little girl who lost her life for no reason and no one seems to care as long as Grandpa doesn’t face consequences and the parents get money to keep telling themselves it’s Royal’s fault. Where is the concern for Chloe? Doesn’t she deserve justice. 

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It is hard to believe that anything was pre-meditated.  I don't think the grandfather would go for that.  If I was asked to kill my grandkids, I would tell the parents to do the dirty work themselves.  Also, the grand father did not bring the child over to the window, the child went there on their own and the grandfather chase after her.  You can see this much from the video. 

It was a tragedy and a poor decision by the grandfather to lift her out the open window.  Not purposeful with any sort of intent, it was an accident.   One thing for sure, you can see the grandfather first look out the window, and his head extends pretty far, I would think out of the window so he had to know the window was open.  Also, when he lifts the child and swings her over the railing you can see it is done in a pretty quick motion, if he thought there was a window there I think he would have been more careful with her not to have her bang into the window.

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10 minutes ago, bobroo said:

I suggest heavily medicating yourself before watching the Puerto Rican TV show.

 

It's bizarre....like H.R. Puff N' Stuff bizarre.

What kind of show is that supposed to be? I was almost surprised I managed to look past the puppet woman and watch the video. Is it like daytime talk? 

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1 hour ago, bobroo said:

I suggest heavily medicating yourself before watching the Puerto Rican TV show.

 

It's bizarre....like H.R. Puff N' Stuff bizarre.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking!  And, here, let's take a totally morose and serious topic and have a clown describe it. WHAT?

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1 hour ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

What kind of show is that supposed to be? I was almost surprised I managed to look past the puppet woman and watch the video. Is it like daytime talk? 

It is a (mostly crass) gossip/scandal oriented show with some social/political commentary. In the past it used to also feature interviews (including local politicians) and had also managed to get "scoops"  in controversial news issues. It had been cancelled several years ago and must have recently resurfaced. The puppeteer is man portraying a gossipy woman. 

For the person asking about the commentary, there is really no new information provided. He basically just describes what is seen in the video, and repeats multiple times that the grandfather lied because you can clearly see that the window was open, etc.  

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, teddy said:

Now the theme song is on repeat in my head.  😄 

I loved Freddy and his flute!  That show came on right before The Banana Splits!

H.R. Pufnstuff,
Who's your friend when things get rough?
H.R. Pufnstuff
Can't do a little cause he can't do enough.

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1 hour ago, YOLO said:

I loved Freddy and his flute!  That show came on right before The Banana Splits!

 

One banana, two banana, three banana, four. 

Four bananas make a bunch and so do many more....

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1 hour ago, YOLO said:

I loved Freddy and his flute!  That show came on right before The Banana Splits!

H.R. Pufnstuff,
Who's your friend when things get rough?
H.R. Pufnstuff
Can't do a little cause he can't do enough.

LOL, you are all so much younger than I am, maybe even younger than my children! I grew up with Howdy Doody, Kukla Fran and Ollie, have any of you heard of them? It was the dawn of home television, my brother and I watched the test patterns until Howdy Doody came on.

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Serious question, because I don’t have kids so really wouldn’t know the answer to this: Can an 18 month old talk/communicate enough to ask their parent to do something? I just read the complaint filed by the parents’ lawyer and it says Chloe asked her grandfather to lift her up to bang on the glass. I am sure she can’t form a full sentence but would she at least have been able to point and babble? 

The complaint PDF is past the video footage near the bottom of the page. The lawyer still seems like an idiot to me. Half his excuse seems to be “But other ships’ windows close!” 

https://www.crimeonline.com/2019/12/18/video-shows-heartbreaking-moment-grandfather-lifts-tot-girl-to-window-aboard-cruise-ship-before-she-falls-150-feet-to-her-death/

 

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1 hour ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

Can an 18 month old talk/communicate enough to ask their parent to do something?

You get to know your kids even before they can speak, much earlier than this child's age.  As they develop it could be grunt, a finger pointing, some gesture.  As they begin to formulate words and beyond that start to put sentence structure together a parent can understand communication where an outsider or stranger would not be able to.  

However, just because a child asks for something you don't automatically grant their wish.  "I want an ice cream".  Okay, first one.  "I want another".  Maybe, probably not.  "I want another and another and another".  No. No. No.  Just because a toddler asks for something doesn't mean you give it to them.   

Parents say "NO" more than than "YES".  It's part of the role.  Children don't understand, they just want something.  "I want to play with that real bear in the zoo, it looks cuddly".  It takes an adult to decide what is proper and right.  Sometimes children don't take the rejection well and throw a tantrum.  All parents have dealt with that.   Tantrum or not, you are not going near that bear.

You may be onto something though.  While mom or dad may have responded "No you can not look out the window" maybe grandpa who just wanted to be the nice grandparent tried to appease her.  

However she didn't want to be lifted to bang on the glass.  She already could do that at floor level.  She wanted a clear view out the open window or grandpa decided she would be happier to see through the open window instead of that dirty salt covered glass at floor level.  The "bang on glass' story came from the Florida attorney a thousand miles away.  Just another of his many inaccuracies I suspect.    

I do have to admit the idea that she had medical issues crossed my mind.  They lawyered up so fast.  It's like they had the Florida attorney on speed dial.  

It still bothers me they refused to speak to local investigators yet they were talking with their new buddy in Florida.  If this happened to my child I would want to talk to the investigators, I would have questions.  I wouldn't hide from them.  

 

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56 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

Serious question, because I don’t have kids so really wouldn’t know the answer to this: Can an 18 month old talk/communicate enough to ask their parent to do something? I just read the complaint filed by the parents’ lawyer and it says Chloe asked her grandfather to lift her up to bang on the glass. I am sure she can’t form a full sentence but would she at least have been able to point and babble? 

The complaint PDF is past the video footage near the bottom of the page. The lawyer still seems like an idiot to me. Half his excuse seems to be “But other ships’ windows close!” 

https://www.crimeonline.com/2019/12/18/video-shows-heartbreaking-moment-grandfather-lifts-tot-girl-to-window-aboard-cruise-ship-before-she-falls-150-feet-to-her-death/

 

An 18 month old could lift her arms up straight and say "Up," indicating that she wanted to be lifted. In her grandfather's arms, she could lean toward the window, indicating it's where she wanted to reach. Kids do that all the time. They also write on the walls with crayons. Needless to say, we don't always give in to their whims or let them have their way. But a grandfather who hadn't spent much time watching his granddaughter might be a softy and reluctant to say No, which is what the responsible adult needs to say very often.

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43 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

Serious question, because I don’t have kids so really wouldn’t know the answer to this: Can an 18 month old talk/communicate enough to ask their parent to do something? I just read the complaint filed by the parents’ lawyer and it says Chloe asked her grandfather to lift her up to bang on the glass. I am sure she can’t form a full sentence but would she at least have been able to point and babble? 

 

Yes, most toddlers could communicate something like that at 18 months old, especially enough that a close family member could put two and two together with gestures, words and knowing the child's interests to understand what they want.  First meaningful words usually occur by a year old, and simple phrases in the months and year following.  However, I read that Chloe was a preemie (I believe this was in her obituary), which could have caused developmental delays so it's hard to say in her case.

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