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MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

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14 hours ago, twangster said:

 

This is the crux of their defense.  Everyone senses the danger of an open window so since he didn't you must draw the conclusion that he didn't know there was a window there.  

The video evidence may prove otherwise.  

I there are different ways to comprehension and understanding.

 

If EVERYONE senses the danger of an open window EXCEPT this one person, how can the entire world be designed to accommodate this one person?

 

The ADA states that "reasonable accommodation" should be made for the handicapped. I would say a 40+ inch vertical distance and a 20+ inch horizontal distance to the lip of a window, before you fall, is pretty reasonable. It would take a concerted effort to over come that barrier that a reasonable person would not attempt.

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9 hours ago, twangster said:

You can't assume anything from a profession.  There are dumb doctors, dumb IT people and some really pathetic lawyers.

True. There is "book smarts" and there is "common sense". I have known some PhD's that could not pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

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I can't confirm this is true, but I read on another website that Sam Annello appears to have numerous tickets over the last few years (around 10) for speeding and not wearing a seatbelt.  If this is true, it clearly displays a pattern of recklessness and willingness to disregard safety rules.  You would think a man who's married to an attorney, who's stepdaughter is an attorney and who's stepson is a police officer would have more respect for the law and his and other people's safety.  Didn't any of them ever ride with him while he was driving?  If so, how do they justify their entrusting him with the care and safe keeping of their daughter / granddaughter?   

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I believe Grandpa has/had another court appearance today, or a pre-trial conference was scheduled. Looking forward to the latest on that. 

Edit: He was offered a plea deal. It seems like he’d be getting off too easy to me. Minimum probation and supervision? Basically he’d be walking scot-free? But I’m not a lawyer so it’s possible I don’t get this fully:

https://wsbt.com/news/local/local-grandfather-charged-in-cruise-ship-death-of-toddler-offered-plea-deal

 

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8 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

I believe Grandpa has/had another court appearance today, or a pre-trial conference was scheduled. Looking forward to the latest on that. 

Edit: He was offered a plea deal. It seems like he’d be getting off too easy to me. Minimum probation and supervision? Basically he’d be walking scot-free? But I’m not a lawyer so it’s possible I don’t get this fully:

https://wsbt.com/news/local/local-grandfather-charged-in-cruise-ship-death-of-toddler-offered-plea-deal

 

He would be crazy not to take it...

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On 12/16/2019 at 9:45 AM, Zambia-Zaire said:

I, for one, don't see how the "color blind" defense will hold up scientifically, in a court of law. A color blind person can still distinguish between different shade or tints (clear & tinted, lite or dark) of the window panels.

Correct. My son has red-green color blindness or color vision deficiency, and although he (and this does vary by person) has difficulty distinguishing black from navy blue from a dark purple or bottle green, he can see that there is "color" there. In other words, he could distinguish a "clear" window from a "tinted" window, although he may interpret the actual color differently from you or me.

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12 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

But taking a plea deal might jeopardize their case against Royal

Agreed!  If it were me, deep down I would know I was wrong.   I would not want to do jail time and would probably take that deal.  Not taking the deal could mean jail time and lots of it.  What good is money if you can't use it?

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Well again it just seems like the grandfather and parents are doing anything to avoid responsibility. The Daily Mail just reported on the plea deal as well, and his refusal made more sense to me when one of the commenters pointed out that if he takes the plea deal he’s admitting that it’s his fault.

As of last week, the family was still saying they blame Royal for the baby’s death. I guess they need to decide if they want to sing a different tune or accept that Pops might not get off as easy in front of a jury.

The Daily Mail also said that his lawyer is planning to get his medical records to use in the trial. 

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3 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

Well again it just seems like the grandfather and parents are doing anything to avoid responsibility. The Daily Mail just reported on the plea deal as well, and his refusal made more sense to me when one of the commenters pointed out that if he takes the plea deal he’s admitting that it’s his fault.

As of last week, the family was still saying they blame Royal for the baby’s death. I guess they need to decide if they want to sing a different tune or accept that Pops might not get off as easy in front of a jury.

The Daily Mail also said that his lawyer is planning to get his medical records to use in the trial. 

Being a fan of the show "Bull", I'm imagining the lawyer at jury selection making sure none of the jury members have ever gone on a cruise ship, especially a Freedom class ship.

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8 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

Being a fan of the show "Bull", I'm imagining the lawyer at jury selection making sure none of the jury members have ever gone on a cruise ship, especially a Freedom class ship.

Love Bull!

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1 hour ago, YOLO said:

Agreed!  If it were me, deep down I would know I was wrong.   I would not want to do jail time and would probably take that deal.  Not taking the deal could mean jail time and lots of it.  What good is money if you can't use it?

Ah, but here's the grandfather's opportunity to "make it up" to his step-children and his wife by refusing the plea deal so they can go ahead with the suit against Royal and maybe at least get rich because of his negligence. 

Personally, I hope he takes the plea deal.

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It seems like public opinion is swaying back towards “this man has suffered enough; he shouldn’t be charged at all.” 

I’ll keep that in mind if I ever cause harm to my pets (don’t have kids) to the point it kills them. I would never hurt one of my dogs intentionally. So let’s say I leave my dog in a hot or cold car and the weather conditions kill them. I can just say “But I feel really sad! I am suffering enough!” and get off in the eyes of the law? Is this really the precedent people want to set? Sorry, I was raised to deal with my mistakes. I seriously question people who think this man should just walk away with no consequence. When will people understand that he looked out the window for about 30 seconds to a minute and still held her up and still claimed to be clueless about the opening? 

By the way, maybe the Wiegands would do well to read a story about this boy who died when he was run over in a truck driven by his father. The kid fell off the truck; he didn’t die because the dad was speeding or was driving recklessly or texting. Therefore, that is an accident where there should be no charges:

https://people.com/human-interest/tennessee-boy-dies-christmas-parade-accident/?utm_campaign=peoplemag&utm_source=facebook.com&xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag&utm_medium=social

 

 

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3 hours ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

It seems like public opinion is swaying back towards “this man has suffered enough; he shouldn’t be charged at all.” 

I’ll keep that in mind if I ever cause harm to my pets (don’t have kids) to the point it kills them. I would never hurt one of my dogs intentionally. So let’s say I leave my dog in a hot or cold car and the weather conditions kill them. I can just say “But I feel really sad! I am suffering enough!” and get off in the eyes of the law? Is this really the precedent people want to set? Sorry, I was raised to deal with my mistakes. I seriously question people who think this man should just walk away with no consequence. When will people understand that he looked out the window for about 30 seconds to a minute and still held her up and still claimed to be clueless about the opening? 

By the way, maybe the Wiegands would do well to read a story about this boy who died when he was run over in a truck driven by his father. The kid fell off the truck; he didn’t die because the dad was speeding or was driving recklessly or texting. Therefore, that is an accident where there should be no charges:

https://people.com/human-interest/tennessee-boy-dies-christmas-parade-accident/?utm_campaign=peoplemag&utm_source=facebook.com&xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag&utm_medium=social

 

 

My reason for hoping the grandfather will take the plea deal is because it will require him to plead guilty, therefore making it difficult to impossible for the family to sue RCCL. I want him to admit his guilt, rather than try to defend himself and possibly get acquitted, which would bolster the family's case. 

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44 minutes ago, tiny blonde said:

My reason for hoping the grandfather will take the plea deal is because it will require him to plead guilty, therefore making it difficult to impossible for the family to sue RCCL. I want him to admit his guilt, rather than try to defend himself and possibly get acquitted, which would bolster the family's case. 

I agree with you. It will be interesting to see if the family pulls their lawsuit. IANAL, but if this were me, I’d take the plea deal. The parents have defended the grandfather and openly disagreed with the charges the whole time. If they are smart they’d tell him to let himself off the hook. 

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What I wonder is how it is  working with the attorneys?  You know the criminal attorney is saying take the deal bc it is probation.  My husband and I were discussing this..  Legally he will probably be found guilty (remove emotions, just the facts) and at sentencing the judge can than give him probation (where emotion can be used)   Either way the civil case is at jeopardy.  

Just spit balling here, but I think that the civil attorney is now coming hard at Royal hoping that they will settle before he goes to court.  Royal on the flip side will say, we like our chances, and will want to wait to see how the criminal case goes.  

FWIW, do I think he has suffered enough?  Heck, yes.  Would I convict him of negligence?  Yes.  I would than plead to the judge to give him probation.  The fact is PR is too far down the rabbit hole to drop the charges.  The family has to hope that the jury will remove the facts, and vote emotionally.  That brings us back to jury selection.  The criminal attorney will want jurors that will see him in pain, and the prosecutor will want jurors that see the case as factual.  

My question is will RCL pay for a person like Dr. Phil (remember he was a jury consultant for Oprah) aka Bull to be a consultant for the prosecution?  I don't know if that is even legal for them to do, but if it is my bet is RCL is doing that.  I would also bet that the civilian attorney is also willing to pay for a consultant for the criminal case.  Both sides are invested financially when it comes to the verdict regarding the criminal case.

To me the saddest part is as stated earlier, only the attorneys are winning here.  Nothing will bring back their sweet child.  I can only imagine that this is making the healing process of their loss even harder.  I would just want now to move on and have my family endure less stress.  There are 5 stages of grief.   I am not sure if they are still in stage 1...denial or stage 2, anger.  Denial, because they are still saying it was RCL's fault.  If that video does indeed show the grandfather looking out the window b4 picking her up, than they are in denial.  If he is not taking the plea deal it might be because of anger.  

 

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The surveillance video from the ship was leaked and aired on a TV program in PR yesterday. It clearly shows him leaning over the railing and sticking his head out the open window before he leans over to pick up the child.     Also, per the local media (several sources), the prosecutors stated that there have not been any offers or negotiations for a plea bargain. The prosecutors said that a plea bargain has not even been considered yet, although this possibility has not been discarded. 

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I just saw the CCTV video from PR. I was appalled to see the Grandpa almost hanging out of the window - and he claim he could not determine the window is open? As he said, he felt the breeze and could not feel the window pane. Also, how the 18 month child can be put on that narrow ledge without her safety being endangered? In addition, please look at the shot showing distance between the baluster and the window- the  distance seems to exceed the 18 month child ability to reach the window pane - she would fell either on the floor or outside for sure! By the way, does CCTV shows other cruisers placing their children, drinks and personal belonging on the ledge? It is a negligent homicide in more than one way!                     

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=754098988428111&id=163113404640097

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Thanks for sharing.  

I had mixed feelings about watching the video knowing the outcome.  

It does pretty clearly show him lean out the window before lifting her.    I don't think you can lean that far over the railing without sticking your head through the window and outside the glass.  With his body so far over the hand railing I cannot accept that he didn't know the window was open.

I also don't understand why the family is covering for him.  If my parents or in-laws did something like this and the video clearly showed what it does I would be not be so understanding and covering for them, I would be livid at them.  They would have to do some serious explaining to me.  

What is wrong with this family?

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