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MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

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It pisses me off that the family and their lawyer are trying to blame Royal and save some face for the inept grandfather and his actions.  Let's face it.  Grandpop messed up and it cost him his granddaughters life.  He is not the victim.  It's that simple. I don't care that the child used to pound on hockey glass or whatever.  This is a 150 foot high cruise ship and not a hockey rink. Even if it was solid glass it is negligent to allow a child to pound on glass, especially exterior glass. I can see RCCL placing fixed glass in those spots to settle this case along with shelling out some $$$$$$$.

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46 minutes ago, Jolly Ogre said:

I heard on the news today that the family is blaming RCCL due to having open windows that are hard to see next to the fixed glass ones. 

Michael Winkleman, a Miami-based attorney hired by Chloe’s family, said her grandfather put the girl on a ledge near a window in a children’s area, but was unaware that the window was open. "Essentially her grandfather lifts her up and puts her on a railing and where he thinks that there is glass there because it's clear, but it turns out there was no glass there," he said. "She goes to bang on the glass like she would have at one of those hockey rinks, and the next thing you know, she's gone."

I just read this a few minutes ago and I don't buy it. The windows on the pool deck all have a blue tint to them and every one of the open windows has a noticeable breeze and ambient sounds coming through (even in port). Not to mention that even freshly cleaned windows are not perfectly clear. Also, putting a child that young on a railing is risking injury even if there were glass there.

I'm heartbroken for the family and I can't even imagine the grandfather's feelings of guilt, but, I don't think this is Royal Caribbean's fault.

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Amazing how the story keeps changing... and now I’m sure this is the one the family will stick with in order to save face and put the blame on the corporation with the deep pockets. 

The incident is truly heartbreaking and, as a mother, I truly feel for the family. But placing the blame where it doesn’t belong isn’t going to bring that baby girl back. 

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22 minutes ago, BunnyHutt said:

Amazing how the story keeps changing... and now I’m sure this is the one the family will stick with in order to save face and put the blame on the corporation with the deep pockets. 

The incident is truly heartbreaking and, as a mother, I truly feel for the family. But placing the blame where it doesn’t belong isn’t going to bring that baby girl back. 

You are so right. And when it comes to writing fairy tales the Brothers Grimm are amateurs when it comes to what lawyers can come up with.

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50 minutes ago, BunnyHutt said:

 But placing the blame where it doesn’t belong isn’t going to bring that baby girl back. 

It gives the family a way to not blame the grandfather.  In their minds it's not his fault if they can all agree to blame the corporation.  

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9 minutes ago, twangster said:

It gives the family a way to not blame the grandfather.  In their minds it's not his fault if they can all agree to blame the corporation.  

Hate to say, but the poor grandfather isn't going to care one way or the other if other people don't blame him. Having had to take my youngest to the ER as a newborn after stubbornly refusing to think she had anything more than a cold, and feeling guilt to this day over that no matter how many times family members told me it wasn't my fault and I couldn't have known, I'm reasonably certain the grandfather will never stop blaming himself even if the family reaches a settlement with Royal. 😞

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

It gives the family a way to not blame the grandfather.  In their minds it's not his fault if they can all agree to blame the corporation.  

As a parent, I’m not sure I could ever take that blame away in my mind. But, I’ve never been in that dark of a place so I can’t say for certain. 

Court of public opinion isn’t going to change, though. Literally millions have sailed on RCCL ships with slide open windows and this is the first incident (to my knowledge) of this type. 

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Horrible situation all around, however IMO I think it's wrong to blame RC based on what has been reported so far.  Hopefully there is some kind of surveillance video, not that I would want to watch it but for the investigators to see what actually happened in those terrifying moments.  God bless that poor little girl.  

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47 minutes ago, BunnyHutt said:

As a parent, I’m not sure I could ever take that blame away in my mind. But, I’ve never been in that dark of a place so I can’t say for certain. 

Court of public opinion isn’t going to change, though. Literally millions have sailed on RCCL ships with slide open windows and this is the first incident (to my knowledge) of this type. 

Saw report said from all causes at least 240 passengers and crew have fallen or jumped off Cruise ships in last 10yrs. Only about 20% lived... Resently there was kid fell couple decks, might been on Carnival...  Agree about the Blame, as parent or Grand parent. Loss of a child, cant comprehend. Know several couple my Grand parents included, marriage didnt survive loss of a child

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Umm.. I'm not sure if that was me that I could hire an attorney so quickly and file suite against RCI. I'd be grief stricken and trying to come to grips with planning a funeral that I should never have to be planning. From the news reports it now gives me the sense that the family is now focused on the almighty $$$ rather than getting to the truth which maybe they already know. RCI won't be commenting or giving the family any answers until the company attorney's weigh in. Such a tragic loss.

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2 minutes ago, 12thman said:

Umm.. I'm not sure if that was me that I could hire an attorney so quickly and file suite against RCI. I'd be grief stricken and trying to come to grips with planning a funeral that I should never have to be planning. From the news reports it now gives me the sense that the family is now focused on the almighty $$$ rather than getting to the true which maybe they already know. RCI won't be commenting or giving the family any answers until the company attorney's weigh in. Such a tragic loss.

Hundreds of lawyers probably contacted them, the ambulance chasing type.  Probably planted some seeds that may not be financially motivated in concept, except for the lawyer's motivation who will take a big cut of any settlement or award.

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Still I've had to use attorney's and I've never had an attorney say you should file suit today! Obviously if that's true then the attorney is only looking for a payday and not the interest of the family. Now the family gets to relive in every detail of what happened TWICE! Once in deposition and again in court. The company attorney's will use ever single word they have said and say from this point forward to win the case. This will literally take years to resolve all the while the family has to relive this everyday because they are now suing RCI. Been there done that and it's really not worth it!! The toll it takes on your emotions and mental stability is something that one talks about when you sue.   

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2 minutes ago, wstephensi said:

Less than 48 hours and already lawyer-ed up.  Not feeling as much pity as yesterday for the family's loss.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. They're experiencing extreme grief over losing their child and the lawyer is running with it. I don't know enough about the situation besides the news and a few articles so I'll reserve my unnecessary opinion. At the end of the day they lost a child - no matter who's fault it is. 

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My husband told me about this last night.  We actually have a 2 yr old grand daughter and another granddaughter due while we are probably on the cruise. We could immediately feel for the grandfather.  The original story we read was it was a balcony.  We could relate to the grandfather in one way, the age of the child they will wriggle a lot.  However, not trying to be callous to the family, our very next thought was why on earth would you get so close to the balcony with the little one?   

Now the story is that it was in the kids play area and a window was open.  Maybe my hubby and I are the conservative grandparents, but there is no way we would pick her up without tapping on the glass to make sure it is closed first.  

My heart breaks for the entire family, but as a grandparent I don't know how my husband and I emotionally would get past this, even with intense therapy.  The guilt will never leave him, and I am so blessed to still be madly in love with him, seeing his pain would just kill me too.  

I am sure that the grandfather loved that little girl very much.  I am sure he never thought about her wriggling.  He just wanted to see her smile, afterall that is the joy of being a grandparent....make them smile and hand them back to their parents.

My bet is Royal will settle out of court.  The reality is they have insurance for this reason.  However, no money that the family ever receives will not change how they feel on her birthday, on Christmas, and every vacation they ever take again.

Just my opinion, for me, I would just want them to pay the burial costs and get me back home so I could start the healing process if that is even possible.

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I don't recall any ship having a kids play area near the windows.  I suspect that is the media misreporting the deck plans.  Typically the ships have seating areas along the windows, there is no specific kids play areas there.  Sometimes these areas have tables and chairs for eating and sometimes it's simply chairs. 

The windows are tinted and it's very obvious when a window is open both from a visual perspective but also from sounds plus feeling of air moving through the window. It's apparent by many different sensory inputs.  Let's face it, the glass and tinting is old and never so clean so that you can mistake glass from open window.  

I've never walked in this area and been surprised that a window was open.  I've never thought to myself "I had no idea that window was open".   I still struggle to understand how the grandfather didn't notice an open window.  

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1 minute ago, twangster said:

I don't recall any ship having a kids play area near the windows.  I suspect that is the media misreporting the deck plans.  Typically the ships have seating areas along the windows, there is no specific kids play areas there.  Sometimes these areas have tables and chairs for eating and sometimes it's simply chairs. 

The windows are tinted and it's very obvious when a window is open both from a visual perspective but also from sounds plus feeling of air moving through the window. It's apparent by many different sensory inputs.  Let's face it, the glass and tinting is old and never so clean so that you can mistake glass from open window.  

I've never walked in this area and been surprised that a window was open.  I've never thought to myself "I had no idea that window was open".   I still struggle to understand how the grandfather didn't notice an open window.  

The lawyer is the one who is publicly stating it was in a kids area. The only thing I can think he may be talking about would be a splash pad of some sort, but I am not familiar with this ship, or class of ships. 

IME, however, all windowed areas on pool decks are seating, not play areas. That’s just common sense factoring into the design. 

To go back to the comment above about the number of people who fall overboard every year, I don’t doubt that. In fact, there was a crew member who fell overboard on the Carnival Victory last week - the same day we were sailing through the same waters on Majesty. But I am not aware of anyone (adult or child) falling out of an open window. 

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2 minutes ago, twangster said:

I don't recall any ship having a kids play area near the windows.

From the CNN report the lawyer actually said "Why in the world would you leave a window open in an entire glass wall full of windows in a kids area?". As other reports seem to suggest it is the Windjammer I think he means why would you leave a window open in an area where kids are present.

I don't recall spaces where you can open windows but honestly I haven't paid that much attention in the past.

I would think it just as likely another passenger opened the window than anyone from RCI so I dont know that you can blame a cruise line.

To me this just sounds like a tragic accident in which a whole set of unfortunate circumstances aligned to create a horrible outcome.

 

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