Jump to content
MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Who said that Royal was charging him? My point was that I think it’s unnecessary to charge the man, It was a tragic accident. The grandfather is not a danger to society putting him in jail wouldn’t really accomplish anything. 

We have to remember that the family, a day after the incident, has threatened to sue Royal for this "tragic accident".  They went on national TV spreading a narrative filled with inaccuracies. So it's not like the family is looking at this as an accident, they're trying to put the blame on Royal.  The charges made against the grandfather and the trials that follow will establish whose fault it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been said before, when someone dies to to another person's negligence or wrongdoing, the state might be considered remiss in not investigating whether it was an accident or something more than that. That's why Puerto Rico has charged the grandfather and will uncover as much evidence as possible to clarify the case. I keep thinking of parents who have forgotten their babies in the back seats of cars and the children have died in the heat of a parked car. That's a comparable tragedy, and in those cases, too, according to a spokesperson for an organization that has analyzed 833 pediatric deaths caused by heatstroke in hot cars since the mid-1990s, "in 43 percent of those cases, no charges were filed. In 32 percent of the cases, the caregiver was charged and convicted. And in 11 percent of the cases, the person was charged with a crime, but the judge or jury did not convict. The other 14 percent accounts for cases that are still open or the status is unknown."

So there's still a possibility that the grandfather will be exonerated, or found guilty with no sentence, or a suspended sentence. I think it's important that the event be examined, because information is usually helpful. Sometimes elderly grandparents are inadequate chaperones (and I'm an elderly grandparent, saying this, and I would be the first to admit that I am no match for my active great-grandchildren and would never babysit them while they are awake and running about on a ship!!!).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While no one is denying that the grandfather is grieving, the state has an obligation to enforce the law and the rights of the victim.  The little girl who had an entire lifetime stolen from her is the victim who deserves justice!  While the grandfather may be grieving, he is NOT the victim and has and will continue to life a full life.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/5/2019 at 7:27 AM, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Who said that Royal was charging him? My point was that I think it’s unnecessary to charge the man, It was a tragic accident. The grandfather is not a danger to society putting him in jail wouldn’t really accomplish anything. 

The Grandfather is not taking  responsibility for his action and is tell everyone in the world it is someone else who is to blame.....People need to ensure safety of kids and punish people who endanger them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trial date to be determined on December 17th.  This is latest I could find...

Salvatore Anello, 50, has appeared in a Puerto Rico court for the first time on November 20 charged with the negligent homicide of his granddaughter Chloe Wiegand, who died after falling from the 11th floor of Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas while it was docked in San Juan on July 7.  During his brief appearance, no evidence was presented as the judge allowed the prosecution and defense more time to prepare ahead of his next court date on December 17, when a trial date will be set.

The family of the 18-month girl has long maintained that her death was an accident and Anello is not criminally responsible.  Police originally alleged that Chloe fell from Anello's grasp as he held her up to the window. Chloe's parents, Alan and Kimberly Wiegand, said the child accidentally fell through the window, which Anello didn't realize was open, after he placed her on a rail so she could bang on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, YOLO said:

The family of the 18-month girl has long maintained that her death was an accident and Anello is not criminally responsible.  Chloe's parents, Alan and Kimberly Wiegand, said the child accidentally fell through the window, which Anello didn't realize was open, after he placed her on a rail so she could bang on it.

BTW, shouldn't an adult know better than to let a child (or anyone) bang on a window 11 stories above a public pier/walkway?  While not likely (although we now know unlikely things happen), what if the window would have broken (glass or even dislodged from it's frame) and fallen 11 stories onto the people below walking on the pier?  The grandfather was grossly negligent in so many ways!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jjohnb said:

BTW, shouldn't an adult know better than to let a child (or anyone) bang on a window 11 stories above a public pier/walkway?  While not likely (although we now know unlikely things happen), what if the window would have broken (glass or even dislodged from it's frame) and fallen 11 stories onto the people below walking on the pier?  The grandfather was grossly negligent in so many ways!

That's been offered many times in this thread.  The glass starts at the floor so the child could see through the glass while standing on the floor.  

A child on a hand railing could fall sideways off the railing and split their head open on the hard pool deck floor, or break a leg or an arm, or any number of injuries falling nearly 3 1/2 to 4 feet off the railing to the floor.  They can fall onto a chair and lose an eye if they hit the edge of the armrest. 

A hand railing is never meant to be a sitting area.  Never.  Even if there was actually glass in front of the railing what he did was irresponsible and exposed the child to danger.   In some states that is child endangerment.  

Why a child banging on glass is a good thing that should be encouraged is another matter altogether.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Chloe was playing with her grandfather in a dining hall that had large windows, and one pane was open.

Last month, Anello told "CBS This Morning" he picked Chloe up and put her on a railing to look out a bank of windows before the girl fell to her death.

He held her in a hug, he said, as she was on the railing. But he then let one arm go as he and his granddaughter both reached out to knock on the glass, as they had done at hockey games."

The above quote is from the article in the South Bend Tribune. At least we're getting closer to the truth!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, tiny blonde said:

"Chloe was playing with her grandfather in a dining hall that had large windows, and one pane was open.

Last month, Anello told "CBS This Morning" he picked Chloe up and put her on a railing to look out a bank of windows before the girl fell to her death.

He held her in a hug, he said, as she was on the railing. But he then let one arm go as he and his granddaughter both reached out to knock on the glass, as they had done at hockey games."

The above quote is from the article in the South Bend Tribune. At least we're getting closer to the truth!

Interesting as they move closer to filing their case they are softening the statements.  Technically it's not a dining area.  Dining service isn't offered on the pool deck. 

Guests are free to take food from a buffet almost anywhere on the ship including the pool deck, but that doesn't mean the entire ship is a dining area.  If you take a plate of food to your balcony cabin does that make your balcony a dining area?  If you take food into the library does make the library a dining area?

Subtle change from the totally false claims of a "kids play area"  yet still inaccurate.  I get it, they are grasping at ways to suggest windows don't belong there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other quotes from the article on the lawyer's statements (highlights mine):

According to Michael Winkleman, an attorney for the Wiegand family, the purpose of the news conference is “to continue to raise awareness about window fall dangers and to honor Chloe’s memory by fighting for justice.”

The lawsuit will be a wrongful death case against the cruise line for “the failure to have windows that are compliant with the well-established window fall prevention codes,” Winkleman said in a statement.

“This was a tragic accident that was preventable. This is a hidden danger,” Winkleman said in July, blaming the cruise line for having windows that could open in a child’s play area.

 

This lawyer is really fixated on the windows.  I wonder how this will change designs and configurations for windows on cruise ships.  I hate it when people's irresponsible (and criminal) actions negatively impact the lives of others - A shoe bomber tries to board a flight, we now have to take off our shoes at airports;  guests cheat on the drink packages, all adults in the stateroom now have to buy the package.  Now this... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read on Daily Mail today they will be submitting their lawsuit today against RCL.  Supposedly Daily Mail was one of the news outlets that got an exclusive from the attorney.  I hope they read the comments.  Overall, everyone is against the family and for RCL.  I mean in the comments it is running hundreds for RCL for every few for the parents.

It might be a reason they did exclusives, because before submitting their lawsuit they want to see how this is playing out via social media.  For them, not so well.  

The majority of people are saying, the railing is there for a reason, and even through the pics, you can see that the child play area is not close, plus with the slant of the windows, that a normal person would say ,,,,hmmm before hoisting a toddler up.

JMPO, it would be hard for them to find a jury that will find RCL at fault.  That being stated, I still believe RCL will settle out of court with an NDA.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, PG Cruiser said:

The TODAY Show is at it again this morning.  Their narrative is still about the ONE OPEN WINDOW in the KID'S PLAY AREA.

It generates revenue.  TV shows are all about ratings which help them sign up advertisers.  Facts don't matter, ratings do. 

Keep this mind for anything else you hear about on the Today show... it's all fake news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I signed up here just to comment on this story as the more I read it, the more my blood boils. I have been on three Royal cruises and have my fourth booked for next year. Also, when I was recently on Anthem, I’m guessing no one had a problem seeing the open pool deck window because no adult or child fell off the ship. 

Honestly at this point I question the fanily’s motives and what type of people and parents they really are. Why do they seem to have no problem with the fact that the baby was put on a railing so high up when there were many safer ways to play with her or look out the window? Were the parents already off drinking and too preoccupied to care? Why, instead of grieving privately and getting counseling and trying to keep their family together, do they keep appearing on TV news and at press conferences? Why is their hand out for money from Royal Caribbean when Grandpa is the one who held the baby up and lost his grip? 

Do I believe Grandpa intended to harm the baby? Of course not. But everyone in this family has very questionable judgment. The mom is a lawyer and can’t see a this is a fruitless lawsuit? 

I think this family needs to step off and drop their lawsuit and get out of the spotlight. They’re not helping themselves. And don’t get me started on the “But it’s so HEARTLESS and MEAN to not understand the family’s SUFFERING!” opinion of so much of the public. Think critically and don’t just believe everything the media, the family, and their lawyer tell you. 

I also majored in journalism and used to work at a law firm. So I know all about the Today show wanting ratings and finding the best stories possible. And while my former firm was much smaller time and didn’t really take cases of this magnitude, there was definitely talk about clients who needed to take responsibility for themselves at some point.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This morning today show finally said "near child's play area".  Also when questioned after the reporter viewed the video with the attorney (not released to public and probably never will be), the attorney said grandfather first leaned over the railing and looked out, then he picked up Chloe and set her on the railing. 

Now I find it very hard to believe that he was unable to tell the window was opening.  From my perspective the more they talk the weaker there case appears.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

I signed up here just to comment on this story as the more I read it, the more my blood boils.

I'm with you on the blood boiling... I'm trying so hard not to throw things at my TV. 😂

In the article, the South Bend Police Department seems to be giving their all out support for this family, even initially letting them use the police facilities for the press conference until they were called out on it.

"The news conference was originally scheduled to take place at the South Bend Police Department, but was changed to the FOP Lodge after a Tribune reporter asked a family spokeswoman why the event was taking place on city property."

I'm all for supporting a grieving family but the South Bend Police Department should be careful not to involve themselves in a frivolous lawsuit such as this.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand all the theatrics to try to get the grandfather off but to try profit off the death of an infant is unconscionable. When do all of the family's comments become slanderous . I think they are walking a fine line. Any compassion is quickly evaporating. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

I think this family needs to step off and drop their lawsuit and get out of the spotlight. They’re not helping themselves. And don’t get me started on the “But it’s so HEARTLESS and MEAN to not understand the family’s SUFFERING!” opinion of so much of the public. Think critically and don’t just believe everything the media, the family, and their lawyer tell you. 

I totally blame the lawyer for all this hoopla. I believe it was he who saw an opportunity to sue RCCL and cooked up the story and talked the family into going along with it. I believe the family is so distraught by what happened and distracted by the media that they can't think straight. They're just going along with the lawyer, in my opinion, and he is just trying to (please excuse the expression) "make a killing."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, tiny blonde said:

I totally blame the lawyer for all this hoopla

I blame the media. Kids die on land in towns around the USA for a variety of reasons, but the media has picked up on this story and kept it running for months now.

As @twangster said, this is about ratings. The best thing you can all do is not to click/watch stories about this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, tiny blonde said:

I totally blame the lawyer for all this hoopla. I believe it was he who saw an opportunity to sue RCCL and cooked up the story and talked the family into going along with it. I believe the family is so distraught by what happened and distracted by the media that they can't think straight. They're just going along with the lawyer, in my opinion, and he is just trying to (please excuse the expression) "make a killing."

The family can only play dumb and go along blindly with the lawyer for so long though. I’m sure their grief is overbearing but it’s been several months. At some point, how has no one else around them tried to encourage them to seek privacy and drop the lawsuit and media circus? They aren’t dragged to the Today show kicking and screaming. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WoodsCommaElle said:

I’m sure their grief is overbearing but it’s been several months. At some point, how has no one else around them tried to encourage them to seek privacy and drop the lawsuit and media circus? They aren’t dragged to the Today show kicking and screaming. 

"Several months" is nothing when your child has been killed. Try living with it for years. Decades. Various media kept interviewing me for years afterward, and I never turned them down, nor did anyone try to talk me out of being interviewed. In fact, I told an interested group of people about it just yesterday. If people want to know, if they ask me, I tell them, because my pain needs to be understood.

But I tell them only if they ask, I don't go around telling people "my daughter was killed" anymore, although for the first year, while I was trying to come to grips with it, I did volunteer the information, to explain why I was so emotionally absent. I was walking around in a daze, confused, traumatized, and I felt I needed to offer an explanation for my helplessness, so I told people.

I can't blame the parents of the dead child. They are the victims . . .. of the grandfather's negligence, and the lawyer's greed . . . . and they are still reeling, and will be for a long time. The lawyer is the only person who is milking this for all it's worth, because he stands to make a third of at least a million dollars and probably more. My guess is that RCCL will settle for some number easily divisible by 3 (like $3,000,000) and the lawyer will deduct his expenses from the parents' share and then gleefully pocket a million for himself, and then go looking for someone else to shove in front of the nation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...