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MattCasey

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

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2 hours ago, D_Hubb said:

Thanks for your input! Having lived in Florida my entire life, I have to admit I'm not very educated on fan etiquette at Hockey games. However, I was wondering if banging on the glass was a "normal" and acceptable thing to do at games. Although it is probably Plexiglas,  it still seems rather unsafe especially for a young child, not to mention (as I just learned) rude. 

I have appreciated everyone's posts and agree - how do you not know a window is open???  What happened to the child is horrible and I understand that the family is grieving (What that mom saw when she went over to the window and looked down - ugh, makes my heart ache), but blaming RCCL because Grandpa didn't know the window was open is insulting!

 It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Due to people not taking responsibility for their own actions and bringing frivolous lawsuits forward such as this, next the cruise lines will be forced to install eight foot high Plexiglas behind the outdoor railings!   

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1 hour ago, Jjohnb said:

Due to people not taking responsibility for their own actions and bringing frivolous lawsuits forward such as this, next the cruise lines will be forced to install eight foot high Plexiglas behind the outdoor railings!   

Nobody is safe unless they enclose all Balconies and Open Decks...

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I’m still leaning towards the idea that he was holding her up so she could see out and she just wiggled loose and fell.  The whole “I didn’t know it was an open window” just isn’t believable.   It’s just a terrible, horrible, sickening accident. They happen every day.  But there is no way that this is the fault of the cruise line.  I hope they fight it.

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@Ray  That's the thing even 1st time cruisers cannot only see the different in the tinting, but you will feel the breeze come through even when at port.

I am with others that say she wiggled out of his arms, but still that does not alleviate the family from their culpability.    

I just wish they stop with the remark that it was right next to the kids play area.  For people that have never cruised I can see them thinking the play area would be 5 feet away, when in reality everybody that has cruised knows there were probably at least 2 rows of loungers, than the knee wall to the area where they were at that had tables.  I assume their point is that since the splash zone was on that side those windows should remain locked.

I don't believe anyone with a heart does not feel sympathy for the entire family.  However, anyone with a brain would have a hard time finding Royal negligent.  For them to win a case against RCL they would have to get all of the jurors to never have been on a cruise.  Even then it would still be hard when they show up close pics of how high the hand rail is, how far they are placed from the windows, how they are tinted and angle out.  

I would think the attorney knows this and his game plan is to keep RCL in the news in hopes that passengers will sail on another cruise line.  I would be really curious to see Disney's decks.  I am sure passenger ratio there are a lot more children on their ships.  That would be the only way I can see a win for them, that is, if Disney's pool deck windows never can open.

 

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If there is a jury trial (which I doubt will happen), RCCL it will be in RCCL's interests to allow the jury to visit the ship to see for themselves where the accident occurred. I've never been on the ship . . . . how far away from the "kids area" are the windows?

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I haven't been on Freedom either, but if you look at the pictures that were released with the police tape, you can see it has to be a good 15-20 feet since you cannot see the kids zone at all in the pic.  You can see that they had left the tables in that area where they were, and than an open area.  

The thing that struck me with that picture was the tables.  I want to say on all of the RCL ships I have been on, on the pool deck the only place there are tables is the smoking section.  The rest all have loungers.  Maybe on Freedom they have tables and not loungers by the windows.  However, if they don't than doesn't that whole in the H2O splash zone make no sense because they would have had to cross from the side the splash zone is located, pass the pool, pass the lounge chairs and walk into the smoking section.  

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3 hours ago, Pima1988 said:

@Ray  That's the thing even 1st time cruisers cannot only see the different in the tinting, but you will feel the breeze come through even when at port.

 

🙂 i asked as it's the ONLY excuse their attorney hasn't used!! So i'm leaning to them having cruised previously so they would have know windows open in certain area's. And you are correct having cruised on FOTS out of San Juan last year i know how nice the breeze coming through an open window can be 🙂 

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4 minutes ago, Ray said:

🙂 i asked as it's the ONLY excuse their attorney hasn't used!! So i'm leaning to them having cruised previously so they would have know windows open in certain area's. And you are correct having cruised on FOTS out of San Juan last year i know how nice the breeze coming through an open window can be 🙂 

The ship was tied up to a pier, in port, and there may not have been a breeze there, that day, coming from that direction. Which does not change the fact that an open window does not look the same as a closed, tinted window, which all the other windows were. He lifted the child and held her up to an open window over 100' above the ground.

My heart aches for them all.

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I want to add that I have friends who have never cruised, and they hear the parents on the news.   They seem to believe that the windows were child level, like the picture of the little girl banging on the hockey window, not up high and the open window was by the children's pool area.   I try to explain to them that the windows are not level with the deck, they are almost waist or chest high.  When I have shown them pictures they are shocked because of what they hear on the news, and they immediately see that the windows are open.   The lawyer and parents seem to be trying to convince those who have never cruised that the ship was at fault, and if listening to my friends is any indication, it is working.   I am sad the little girl died in this awful way, but angry that the parents and grandfather will not take responsibility for their actions, if they did, maybe they could teach parents to be more aware of how suddenly accidents can happen.   A friend's son-in-law drove over his daughter who was behind his car, she survived but was in the hospital recovering for weeks, he took full responsibility for his actions and told his friends over and over to always make sure your child is no where near the car, to not just take it for granted.    

 

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On 7/26/2019 at 1:22 PM, WAAAYTOOO said:

Yeah, particularly when you have a sleazy lawyer whispering in your ear 5 seconds after it happened, "....this is not your fault.  I can get Royal Caribbean pay you a LOT of money.  This is THEIR fault..."

I have a feeling the lawyer was trolling their social media accounts and found the picture of the girl at the hockey game. He then concocted the “banging on the glass” story before even meeting with them and the family immediately latched on to it. Not because they’re money-hungry but rather it’s the only thing that makes sense in their grief and can help them hang on. 

If everyone was so hysterical that they needed to be sedated after the incident - which is completely understandable - I highly doubt they knew exactly what the train of thought was in the moments leading up to the accident. So, yeah, I’m calling BS and blaming the lawyer for that one. 

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We always remind the kids of our safety rules one last time before boarding.   If this family had done the same, Grandpa would have heard “no kids on railings, no leaning out windows, etc.”.   It may have made all the difference in the world. 

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Here's my opinion:

I think it is completely unreasonable to blame RCI for this incident. Also, I really don't understand how the grandfather couldn't differentiate an open window to a closed one.

1. The windows are tinted; therefore it should be easy to see the open window

2. The breeze coming from the window

If the toddler fell out of the window, the grandfather must have let go of her. Even if the window was closed, she could fall from the railing on the floor if he let go of her.

"Anello said he took his granddaughter over to the windows because she loved banging on the glass at her brother's ice hockey games in Indiana"

Personally, I think this is a hasty excuse because in the picture she is facing towards the window, but on the cruise ship she had to have been facing away from the (open) window if the grandfather set her on the railing.

 

Kimberly Wiegand on TODAY: "We have a lot of questions, primarily, why is there an open window in the kids' play area 11 stories off the ground?"

Reporter: "Do you blame anyone? Do you blame the cruise company?"

Kimberly Wiegand: "Obviously we blame them. There are a million things that could have been done to make that safer. My mom was asking, why on earth is there an open window, you know, on the 11th floor, without a screen or anything? Their response was, we need ventilation. Well to that I would say get a fan." RCI has a bunch of fans...right here on royalcaribbeanblog.com! 😂 

I apologize if you disagree with my ideas, but I just want to share my thoughts with this great community. 😊

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2 hours ago, Zurc said:

We always remind the kids of our safety rules one last time before boarding.   If this family had done the same, Grandpa would have heard “no kids on railings, no leaning out windows, etc.”.   It may have made all the difference in the world. 

@Zurc Welcome to the RCB fourm!

I like your idea.  I do wonder how may of us would  take the time and make the effort to prepare for safety at home before leaving for a cruise trip.  But you are very right.  And, while it may be impossible to tell if advance safety preparation did any good, not having anything bad happen on your cruise just may be proof enough!

ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT:  Ship security really is everywhere.  Often closer than you think.  I know from experience and on the Freedom in fact.  Summon them if you ever need help!

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1 hour ago, YOLO said:

@Zurc Welcome to the RCB fourm!

I like your idea.  I do wonder how may of us would  take the time and make the effort to prepare for safety at home before leaving for a cruise trip.  But you are very right.  ...

 

We do the family safety reminder in the terminal, right before we board.   That way it’s fresh in everyone’s mind. (Plus, the terminal is the first place the whole family has a chance to meet up.  We drive in from different cities.)

Thanks so so much for the nice Welcome !

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3 hours ago, TXcruzer said:

FWIW we just dis-embarked Freedom yesterday and it was business as usual on the pool deck with every third window open 

Just curious if the window or area in question was roped off, or anything else to indicate the area is still being investigated?  I'm sure RC wants to make it normal as possible and not remind current passengers of the sad event so as not to ruin their cruise.  I'm just wondering what they're still required to do with the area.  Hopefully the physical investigation is complete by now. 

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It's a terribly sad tragedy and no amount of finger pointing at the cruise line will bring that poor baby back. The grandfather simply made a horrible decision that will effect him and the whole family for the rest of their lives.  It's sad enough to think about when it's not your own child/grandchild...heaven forbid if it was.  Ever since this was in the media, my husband keeps having nightmares about it.  Their finger pointing may be their only coping mechanism right now, but it's definitely not RCCL's fault.  I hope RCCL doesn't just quietly settle, because it's not on their hands at all.

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23 hours ago, Brobbins246 said:

Just curious if the window or area in question was roped off, or anything else to indicate the area is still being investigated?  I'm sure RC wants to make it normal as possible and not remind current passengers of the sad event so as not to ruin their cruise.  I'm just wondering what they're still required to do with the area.  Hopefully the physical investigation is complete by now. 

There were no indications that anything had ever happened and there was no restricted access to any areas on deck 11

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On 7/26/2019 at 12:19 PM, KLA said:

The only reasoning that I can think of for this is that people don't generally act rationally while grieving. On top of what's a pretty tragic situation between family members, they're grieving their child and grandchild. 

Or they have an attorney who figures he can get a quick pay day for himself.  I really think this lawyer thought RCCL would settle immediately to avoid bad publicity.  They aren't offering to settle and the longer this goes, the harder it's going to be for this family (and their sleazy attorney) to collect anything.

 

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10 hours ago, cruisejunkie1960 said:

Or they have an attorney who figures he can get a quick pay day for himself.  I really think this lawyer thought RCCL would settle immediately to avoid bad publicity.  They aren't offering to settle and the longer this goes, the harder it's going to be for this family (and their sleazy attorney) to collect anything.

I believe that if you have read everything on the subject that is available, you will find that the attorney was contacted by an associate of the family that was back in Indiana.  Personally I don't fault the attorney for trying to spin it his clients way, that's what I expect him to do.  What i am surprised at is that there is not a Cruise Industry Association (not Royal themselves as they are smart not to comment)  that is not out there to pick up the PR fight, because i am sure Royal is not the only ones with these types of windows.

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16 hours ago, CruiseGus said:

I believe that if you have read everything on the subject that is available, you will find that the attorney was contacted by an associate of the family that was back in Indiana.  Personally I don't fault the attorney for trying to spin it his clients way, that's what I expect him to do.  What i am surprised at is that there is not a Cruise Industry Association (not Royal themselves as they are smart not to comment)  that is not out there to pick up the PR fight, because i am sure Royal is not the only ones with these types of windows.

"Associate of the family" = small-time lawyer reaching out to a big-league lawyer in return for a cut of the fee. 

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