Where is Odyssey of the seas going?

[mpoole3]

With Odyssey of the seas coming out Fall of 2020.   Where do you think she's headed?   NCL & Carnival both have brand new ships headed out of Long Beach, CA (LA).  Perhaps Royal will send her my way?  

[princevaliantus]

Mexico is not in RCCL's best interest considering that market is inundated with several other cruise lines, especially the infamous LOVE BOAT !!!

[Matt]

[The Cruise Junkie]

The Caribbean!! 

[Carlos A.]

4 hours ago, princevaliantus said:

Mexico is not in RCCL's best interest considering that market is inundated with several other cruise lines, especially the infamous LOVE BOAT !!!

What's wrong with Princess? 

[princevaliantus]

18 minutes ago, carlosalonsor said:

What's wrong with Princess? 

Nothing. The Pacific Princess was actually the first cruise I've ever taken when I was 14. I was actually an extra on the 1979 show. Now that was cruising !!!!!!!

[Pen]

Bayonne would be nice  :)

[firebuck]

16 minutes ago, Pen said:

Bayonne would be nice 

Plus one on this! 

[Joe01]

They should do a few sample cruises in Europe then put her in Bayonne with Anthem moving down to Florida and rotating between Southampton and the FLL 6/8 nighters.

If they haven't been present in LA for 8 years (Jewel's 2015 mini season and VI's Panama Canal stops don't count), why would they bring their newest ship there without at least testing the market? Makes no business sense.

[Floski]

31 minutes ago, Pen said:

Bayonne would be nice 

 

I'm not sure that phrase has ever been uttered before in the history of mankind...

 

 

   I  juss keeding

[twangster]

1 hour ago, Joe01 said:

They should do a few sample cruises in Europe then put her in Bayonne with Anthem moving down to Florida and rotating between Southampton and the FLL 6/8 nighters.

If they haven't been present in LA for 8 years (Jewel's 2015 mini season and VI's Panama Canal stops don't count), why would they bring their newest ship there without at least testing the market? Makes no business sense.

I don't see them swapping out Anthem while they have been busy booking Anthem Thanksgiving and Christmas cruises out of Bayonne through the 2020 holiday season.  

Odyssey will earn the new ship premium where ever she goes and they would be leaving money on table simply swapping people to Odyssey at Anthem prices.  Cancelling holiday bookings would be a PR nightmare if they forced people to rebook Odyssey in Bayonne at a higher premium for the new ship effect. 

Why lose millions?  Put her anywhere else and it doesn't matter, she will sell out and at a premium like Symphony while not impacting Anthem bookings at a displaced alternate home port. 

The safe bet is to leave Anthem in Bayonne and showcase Odyssey somewhere else at a premium which she will get because she is new to that area and a new ship.

[JLMoran]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

Bayonne would be nice 

2 hours ago, firebuck said:

Plus one on this! 

Plus two!

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

The safe bet is to leave Anthem in Bayonne and showcase Odyssey somewhere else at a premium which she will get because she is new to that area and a new ship.

Well, it's not like she wouldn't command the premium as the newest ship if were in Bayonne. And she's "Quantum Ultra" rather than "regular" Quantum, isn't she? I'm sure if Royal can find a justification for elevated pricing they'll find it. 

I know it's selfish, but it would be nice even if the ship is mostly the same to have some new headline shows. I'll be happily watching Spectra a second time in October, and may re-watch We Will Rock You; but more than twice may be the point where it starts feeling tired. I can easily see how for folks who've been sailing Anthem since she first arrived in NJ, hearing that there would be new shows plus whatever other new amenities would most likely trigger a surge in bookings for fans of the ship class.

[WAAAYTOOO]

Is Odyssey going to have the exclusive suites area and "private" suites elevators like Spectrum ?  I would assume so but haven't specifically heard.

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

Is Odyssey going to have the exclusive suites area and "private" suites elevators like Spectrum ?  I would assume so but haven't specifically heard.

Assuming so, but it begs the question what happens to the Concierge Lounge (more cabins?) if there is a suite area at the front?

Spectrum has "Silver Dining" forward so does Coastal Kitchen go away too, or move forward?

If they rename it and get rid of Coastal Kitchen they can block Pinnacles from using it.  

Hmmm.....

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

Well, it's not like she wouldn't command the premium as the newest ship if were in Bayonne. And she's "Quantum Ultra" rather than "regular" Quantum, isn't she? I'm sure if Royal can find a justification for elevated pricing they'll find it. 

She'll get new ship premium where ever.  They can't support both in Bayonne. 

People cruise out of Bayonne to avoid flying.  That's why they put up with two sea days South and two sea days North with a stop in Port Canaveral and the Bahamas.  #boring!   

Those same people or many of them won't fly somewhere to Odyssey so by placing Odyssey elsewhere they have minimal impact to Anthem bookings.  

People who are willing to fly to Odyssey will come from all over and if flying, they would prefer to fly to Florida for the better itineraries.  

Odyssey in Florida would appeal to a lot of Royal's significant customer base located in Florida and she would be sell out quickly.  

NYC is not an insignificant market but as the cruise industry goes it is way down the list.  Galveston makes more sense than NYC.

[CGTLH]

14 minutes ago, twangster said:

Spectrum has "Silver Dining" forward so does Coastal Kitchen go away too, or move forward?

From the pictures I could find this is essentially Solarium Bistro. Know in the Asian market the Solarium in general is a "VIP" type area.

Golden Dining and Lounge in my view is equal to the Suite Lounge/Coastal Kitchen setup Oasis class has.

[JLMoran]

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

They can't support both in Bayonne.

Oh, I wasn't figuring you'd have both in Bayonne. Could put Odyssey there and move Anthem to Florida or wherever.

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

Odyssey in Florida would appeal to a lot of Royal's significant customer base located in Florida and she would be sell out quickly. 

NYC is not an insignificant market but as the cruise industry goes it is way down the list.  Galveston makes more sense than NYC.

But why would they "waste" the money putting a ship explicitly built for cold / more consistently inclement weather in a part of the world that hardly ever has either? While Q class has a lot of nice features to it, one of its biggest drawbacks is the extreme lack of outdoor areas. Apart from the one outdoor pool, which is kind of small for the passenger count IMO, the pool deck is all indoors -- Indoor pool, Solarium, and SeaPlex. The other main public venues are also all indoors, all with a notable lack of windows or ocean views. Not a good thing when you want to enjoy the Caribbean weather.

Assuming that Anthem has a good season in Europe, why not keep her there to do Northern Europe itineraries and even some sailings that currently are harder to come by on Royal, like Norway or Iceland? And the Odyssey takes Anthem's place in NJ while still fulfilling the role of a ship to sail year-round for winter Caribbean, fall CA/NE, and summer Bermuda / Bahamas. Those December through March sailings for 12 nights to the "Southern" (Eastern) Caribbean have to be at least modestly popular, because the per-night pricing is in line with the summer sailings and the ship sails full. There's definitely a market for that and I don't think Royal would want to give that up, or limit the ship here to the colder months.

We can already see the impact not having Anthem here in 2020 is having -- the Bermuda sailings are starting in mid-May instead of mid-April, and ending earlier, partly because Adventure can't go in the rougher waters / lousier weather at the start of the season; partly because Adventure is needed for those October foliage sailings up to Quebec and back. I suppose they could put Odyssey down in FL for the five months from May through September, and have her here the rest of the year. But I still can't get my head past the fact you're putting a dedicated cold weather./ wet weather ship in an area known for neither.

[Zambia-Zaire]

Be nice if the sail:

Seattle to Ensenada

Or

Vancouver to San Diego/LA

[NJCruisers]

15 minutes ago, twangster said:

People cruise out of Bayonne to avoid flying.  That's why they put up with two sea days South and two sea days North with a stop in Port Canaveral and the Bahamas.  #boring!   

Exactly!  I'm about an hour from there and I prefer to go to South in the cooler months so I'm flying to San Juan instead.  I'd love to be able to take a future cruise from there someday though.  

[Joe01]

53 minutes ago, twangster said:

I don't see them swapping out Anthem while they have been busy booking Anthem Thanksgiving and Christmas cruises out of Bayonne through the 2020 holiday season.  

Odyssey will earn the new ship premium where ever she goes and they would be leaving money on table simply swapping people to Odyssey at Anthem prices.  Cancelling holiday bookings would be a PR nightmare if they forced people to rebook Odyssey in Bayonne at a higher premium for the new ship effect. 

Why lose millions?  Put her anywhere else and it doesn't matter, she will sell out and at a premium like Symphony while not impacting Anthem bookings at a displaced alternate home port. 

The safe bet is to leave Anthem in Bayonne and showcase Odyssey somewhere else at a premium which she will get because she is new to that area and a new ship.

I get what you mean regarding Anthem bookings. If it weren't for that, it would have been a better idea.

I suggest Odyssey to rotate Southampton/Fort Lauderdale. I'm hoping that Southampton has a Quantum Class alongside Indy for the foreseeable future.

[Joe01]

8 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

Assuming that Anthem has a good season in Europe, why not keep her there to do Northern Europe itineraries and even some sailings that currently are harder to come by on Royal, like Norway or Iceland? And the Odyssey takes Anthem's place in NJ while still fulfilling the role of a ship to sail year-round for winter Caribbean, fall CA/NE, and summer Bermuda / Bahamas. Those December through March sailings for 12 nights to the "Southern" (Eastern) Caribbean have to be at least modestly popular, because the per-night pricing is in line with the summer sailings and the ship sails full. There's definitely a market for that and I don't think Royal would want to give that up, or limit the ship here to the colder months.

Anthem in Europe year round? Trust me, not a good idea.

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

But why would they "waste" the money putting a ship explicitly built for cold / more consistently inclement weather in a part of the world that hardly ever has either? 

Doesn't that logic apply to Anthem as well then?

2 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

Assuming that Anthem has a good season in Europe, why not keep her there to do Northern Europe itineraries and even some sailings that currently are harder to come by on Royal, like Norway or Iceland?

Anthem is already coming home in October arriving days after Oasis vacates.  People have booked cruises through spring of 2021 on her.  Makes no sense to cancel bookings to appease one of the smaller cruise markets in the country.  Too disruptive and upsets guests for no reason.  

2 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

But I still can't get my head past the fact you're putting a dedicated cold weather./ wet weather ship in an area known for neither.

Where does Anthem sail on those long 11 night cruises out of Bayonne?  Southern Caribbean.   I've done it and have another booked.  When Anthem sails to Bermuda is it cold in Bermuda?

For a cold weather ship the West Coast makes sense.  Not full time, but on a seasonal basis to test the market.

Spend a winter in Florida.  Panama canal in the new locks in the spring.  A short test season for a few weeks in California before taking on Alaska in the 2021 season.  

Biggest Royal ship through Panama would sell like hot cakes.  A short CA season is low risk.  Alaska in 2021 at new ship premium prices based on Ovation's seasons in Alaska 2019 and 2020.  Slide her down to Australia which is a market with substantially higher profits over the NYC market.  

If they want to stimulate a market, Australia makes a lot of sense.   

They are testing Southhampton next year with Anthem.  Depending how bookings go they can evaluate that market further for 2021 and beyond.  Slide Ovation to Southhampton in 2021.  Move Ovation to Bayonne after the 2021 summer in Europe.  No disruption to Anthem 2020 bookings and the transition to Ovation could be done gracefully without upsetting existing booked Anthem guests.

They have a plan and if it involved Bayonne I doubt they would sell cruises on Anthem through the spring of 2021 in Bayonne.

[twangster]

39 minutes ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

Vancouver to San Diego/LA

Vancouver is not sustainable as a home port for Quantum class.  They are hoping it's doable to start and end a season but squeezing under that bridge at very specific times and having to upset guests by adjusting times based on more accurate tidal forecasts close in is not viable in the long term as a home port.  Look at the whining going on with Ovation guests right now because they changed Victoria so that Ovation could sail into Vancouver at the only possible time on May 12.   

[Joe01]

37 minutes ago, twangster said:

Doesn't that logic apply to Anthem as well then?

Anthem is already coming home in October arriving days after Oasis vacates.  People have booked cruises through spring of 2021 on her.  Makes no sense to cancel bookings to appease one of the smaller cruise markets in the country.  Too disruptive and upsets guests for no reason.  

Where does Anthem sail on those long 11 night cruises out of Bayonne?  Southern Caribbean.   I've done it and have another booked.  When Anthem sails to Bermuda is it cold in Bermuda?

For a cold weather ship the West Coast makes sense.  Not full time, but on a seasonal basis to test the market.

Spend a winter in Florida.  Panama canal in the new locks in the spring.  A short test season for a few weeks in California before taking on Alaska in the 2021 season.  

Biggest Royal ship through Panama would sell like hot cakes.  A short CA season is low risk.  Alaska in 2021 at new ship premium prices based on Ovation's seasons in Alaska 2019 and 2020.  Slide her down to Australia which is a market with substantially higher profits over the NYC market.  

If they want to stimulate a market, Australia makes a lot of sense.   

They are testing Southhampton next year with Anthem.  Depending how bookings go they can evaluate that market further for 2021 and beyond.  Slide Ovation to Southhampton in 2021.  Move Ovation to Bayonne after the 2021 summer in Europe.  No disruption to Anthem 2020 bookings and the transition to Ovation could be done gracefully without upsetting existing booked Anthem guests.

 They have a plan and if it involved Bayonne I doubt they would sell cruises on Anthem through the spring of 2021 in Bayonne.

Where would Anthem go in Summer 2021 if Ovation did Southampton? And if OV then goes to Bayonne, that means she will probably stay year round -  it would be better having a consistent Quantum Class in Southampton, but that's another discussion.

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, Joe01 said:

Where would Anthem go in Summer 2021 if Ovation did Southampton? And if OV then goes to Bayonne, that means she will probably stay year round -  it would be better having a consistent Quantum Class in Southampton, but that's another discussion.

Winters in Florida based on 2020 results.   Florida winters can be cool. 

The only question becomes a broadway show for Ovation.  It's curious no broadway caliber entertainment on her.  The entertainment offered on Odyssey will be very telling.  

[twangster]

1 hour ago, CGTLH said:

From the pictures I could find this is essentially Solarium Bistro. Know in the Asian market the Solarium in general is a "VIP" type area.

Golden Dining and Lounge in my view is equal to the Suite Lounge/Coastal Kitchen setup Oasis class has.

Call Golden Dining and Lounge something else and block Pinnacles while giving suites exclusive access. 

Rename Silver Dining to something and let Pinnacles use it.  Keep D+ down in the DL. 

No more Concierge Lounge aft but some nice one floor deck 12 aft cabins that aren't Star Class.    

[The Cruise Junkie]

3 minutes ago, twangster said:

   Florida winters can be cool.   

It Got So Cool I Made A Snow Man

 

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Jaymac Radio said:

It Got So Cool I Made A Snow Man

 

Is that a Canadian I see splashing in the water in the distance?

[Zambia-Zaire]

@twangster how is the South American Market? Could they move Anthem or Ovation to SA's mild/cold regions equivalent to the New York south to Bermuda/Bahamas route...for an example Santiago, Lima, a port or private island of Ecuador, or on the East coast of SA, from Buenos Aries, Montevideo, north to a port or private island in the Southern Caribbean(I know there isn't any private island in SA currently...just thinking of an article I read a number of months back, about RCCL intent on building several new private areas along new & existing routes)?

[The Cruise Junkie]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

Is that a Canadian I see splashing in the water in the distance?

Yes A Stubborn Canadian Scorpio

[twangster]

22 minutes ago, Zambia-Zaire said:

@twangster how is the South American Market? Could they move Anthem or Ovation to SA's mild/cold regions equivalent to the New York south to Bermuda/Bahamas route...for an example Santiago, Lima, a port or private island of Ecuador, or on the East coast of SA, from Buenos Aries, Montevideo, north to a port or private island in the Southern Caribbean(I know there isn't any private island in SA currently...just thinking of an article I read a number of months back, about RCCL intent on building several new private areas along new & existing routes)?

I think Royal is waiting for some stability in the South American market.  Celebrity occasionally flirts with it but I don't know if it can sustain the revenue that Royal realizes elsewhere.  

Simply put they place ships to maximize revenue, not appease a handful of guests who want a route or are tired of a show. 

They know these markets very well.   They know what works.  It costs money to move a ship, they'll only do it if it makes business sense and will increase revenue.  Spending money to move a ship that realizes no change in revenue makes no business sense.

Ovation down under was the second highest revenue producing ship in 2018.  She beat Anthem by $70M.  On one hand you don't mess with success.  On the other hand you have to watch the competition and protect revenue from being poached by a competitor who introduces a new ship or makes other changes.  

Royal has hinted at coming back to California for some time now.  Royal does things will a splash like AMPing two Voyager class ships and placing them into the short cruise market - unheard of.   I don't see them placing an old small ship into California to test the market - that can produce inaccurate results. 

[Joe01]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Winters in Florida based on 2020 results.   Florida winters can be cool. 

Yes - my guess is that she will spend the Winter season in Florida, but what about the Summer if Southampton is already occupied? Especially considering that Oasis may end up taking over the Summer slot in Bayonne.

[twangster]

33 minutes ago, Joe01 said:

Yes - my guess is that she will spend the Winter season in Florida, but what about the Summer if Southampton is already occupied? Especially considering that Oasis may end up taking over the Summer slot in Bayonne.

I'm not sure that Oasis returning to Bayonne is a given.  It all depends on 2020 bookings and revenue.  They have to reposition to and from Bayonne empty which is a major revenue hit.  It will take a lot of revenue simply to overcome that hit twice to the books.  Oasis earned $404M in 2018 or $1.1M per day.   Assuming 3 days lost moving to Bayonne and 3 days lost moving back to Florida that's a $6.6M revenue hit plus operating costs (crew salary, fuel, etc).

Same argument moving Anthem to Florida - minimum 3 day sailing with no revenue.  Anthem earned $371M in 2018 or just over $1M per day.  It's a $3M revenue hit to move her to Florida plus operating costs.   

[KathyC]

I don't see why Bayonne couldn't handle two Quantum class ships for the winter.  We have three ships in the summers; Anthem, Adventure and Summit. We're getting baby Vision in 2020 for two sailings in fall of 2020.  Adventure & Summit go away in October, and leave poor Anthem by herself all winter long.  Why can't we have two cold-weather ships in the winter?  Cape Liberty can definitely support that, with the passenger load she handles in the summer now. 

[twangster]

1 minute ago, KathyC said:

I don't see why Bayonne couldn't handle two Quantum class ships for the winter.  We have three ships in the summers; Anthem, Adventure and Summit. We're getting baby Vision in 2020 for two sailings in fall of 2020.  Adventure & Summit go away in October, and leave poor Anthem by herself all winter long.  Why can't we have two cold-weather ships in the winter?  Cape Liberty can definitely support that, with the passenger load she handles in the summer now. 

I cruise Anthem in the winter because it's cheap.  I put up with the itinerary because it cheap. 

People are afraid of winter weather.  Summer Bayonne load factors do not apply in the winter.  

This may be a leading cause of Anthem's $70M gap in revenue compared to her sister. 

If you put Odyssey beside Anthem no one would sail Anthem.  I guess that could be good - a week on Anthem for $299 per person to fill it.  

[Lovetocruise2002]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

Is that a Canadian I see splashing in the water in the distance?

 

1 hour ago, Jaymac Radio said:

Yes A Stubborn Canadian Scorpio

Haha...you two obviously still don't know me well.  

Two reasons why you would never see me in that water:

1. I hate wet sand so I never get into the water at the beach.

2. I am a germaphobe and not a fan of animals.  The thought of some fish or whatever coming right up to me in the water makes me run fast.  @Matt would get that 

[mattymay]

4 hours ago, twangster said:

For a cold weather ship the West Coast makes sense.  Not full time, but on a seasonal basis to test the market.

Spend a winter in Florida.  Panama canal in the new locks in the spring.  A short test season for a few weeks in California before taking on Alaska in the 2021 season.  

Biggest Royal ship through Panama would sell like hot cakes.  A short CA season is low risk.  Alaska in 2021 at new ship premium prices based on Ovation's seasons in Alaska 2019 and 2020.  Slide her down to Australia which is a market with substantially higher profits over the NYC market.  

If they want to stimulate a market, Australia makes a lot of sense.   

Well Ovation is heading to Singapore after the 2021 Australia season instead of the usual Transpacific to do the Alaska itineraries so you could be onto something here!!

[Skid]

3 hours ago, Lovetocruise2002 said:

 I am a germaphobe and not a fan of animals.  The thought of some fish or whatever coming right up to me in the water makes me run fast.  @Matt would get that 

@Lovetocruise2002, one of the best excursions we ever took was Hartleys Helmet Diving in Bermuda. They were fantastic and are still there. This is from their website (not us), but I guess a picture like this will never be of you or @Matt

[Lovetocruise2002]

Just now, Skid said:

@Lovetocruise2002, one of the best excursions we ever took was Hartleys Helmet Diving in Bermuda. They were fantastic and are still there. This is from their website, but I guess a picture like this will never be of you or @Matt

Omg! No words! Count me out!

[SpeedNoodles]

4 hours ago, Skid said:

@Lovetocruise2002, one of the best excursions we ever took was Hartleys Helmet Diving in Bermuda. They were fantastic and are still there. This is from their website (not us), but I guess a picture like this will never be of you or @Matt

YES! We have this on our list of things to do on one of our stops next year!