Royal Caribbean to open five private islands

[twangster]

15 minutes ago, JLMoran said:

The amenities differ, of course, but that's kind of the point; especially with the refurbishment Summit it getting in a couple of months, I'm looking at this and thinking I'm getting a heck of an upgrade in experience and treatment for zero extra cost. And it's not like my kids would complain about a lack of things to do any less on Brilliance during the sea days; she doesn't have all those extra amenities of the bigger ships, and most of what she does have is outdoors and most likely wouldn't be usable during the sea days in those colder northern waters.

And I have it on record from a rep I spoke with at X that they're actively courting a younger demographic, trying to get more older families with teens to start sailing with them. Between that, what I'm seeing with itinerary pricing, and the already pretty good loyalty reciprocation, it sounds an awful lot to me like they're already working hard on a transition.

Exactly.  Vision and Radiance don't have adult slides, zip lines,  bumper cars, skating rinks, laser tag, skypads, etc.  So in that sense they are already more Celebrity-like in terms of activities.  If you are willing to go without all that, Celebrity should be in anyone's search criteria now.    

Just as Royal may transition to a bigger ship line, Celebrity can also expand it's target audience to pick up the RCI small ship market.  

[Ogalthorpe Haywood]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:42 AM, monctonguy said:

Really?....I don't see that making sense at all...unless demand drops and they cant fill the ships.

 

That being said, I am ok if they want to drop the prices of the cruise and charge more for the add-ons...as long as if you don't pay extra for the add ons you aren't treated and feel like a 2nd class citizen while cruising.....we are heading back to Titanic days if that happens.

Seems like this is the route they are going 

[mattymay]

I think the private island of the coast of Australia will be a winner for Royal Caribbean as currently there is not much variation in South Pacific itineraries. 

Noumea, New Caledonia is one of those ports that I feel nobody really wants to go to but you have to because almost every cruise sails through there. I hope they switch this out for the private island. 

Also, they could port a ship in Melbourne and do short itineraries up the coast to their private island. It would sell out instantly.

[mom2mybugs]

On 1/17/2019 at 12:53 PM, twangster said:

Celebrity.  

Royal may very well become a large(r) ship line with all ships over 130K GT.  Voyager class has some longevity yet - that's why they are AMPING them.  

No single line can try be everything, it's possibly better to focus on the mass family crowd that wants FlowRiders and Laser Tag and Slides and Skypads.  Let Celebrity focus on smaller markets, or *GASP* create a new brand in the RCCL family.  

So much for my ever getting diamond!  I often book a smaller ship because they are so much cheaper.  It is crazy how much less rhapsody is than allure...the difference covers my airfare so that is what we are doing March 2021.  Guess I will just have to watch...it’s not like I’m racing up the c & a board anyway lol!  Jane

[SpeedNoodles]

1 hour ago, mom2mybugs said:

So much for my ever getting diamond!  I often book a smaller ship because they are so much cheaper.  It is crazy how much less rhapsody is than allure...the difference covers my airfare so that is what we are doing March 2021.  Guess I will just have to watch...it’s not like I’m racing up the c & a board anyway lol!  Jane

Bask in the glow of your Pinnacle status here

[monorailmedic]

Don't confuse the ability to keep an older ship safe/reliable/sparkly for more than 20 years with the desire for some lines to have products that aren't practical to implement on older vessels. 

Silversea's oldest ship is 25, the average is 16 years.  Azamara's oldest ship is 19, the average is 19 and change.  Regent's oldest ship is 20, the average of their 3 oldest ships (out of a total of 4) is 18.  Disney's oldest ship is 21 years old, and half of their fleet is 20.5. Oceania's two oldest ships are 21 years old, and two thirds of their fleet is 20.25 years old.  

You can bet those ships above are in top notch shape, and while at least five of those lines are building new ships, it's unlikely they'll be offloading their old tonnage anytime soon - especially as Oceania puts a ton of money into their existing fleet.

Contemporary lines (RCI, CCL, and NCL) have to make tricky decisions, because they all have over the years (and RCI was the first to start) put more and more focus on size and wild amenities that either can't be built onto smaller ships or simply can't be practically built onto any existing ships.  That means that while some companies may be able to hit that 30 year age with class, it'd be a real challenge to see Royal hold onto much tonnage for so long when they tout so much of their value around the experiences that can be had only on the largest and newest vessels in their fleet.  I do think it's possible that we could see some resegmentation of the market, though I don't think it will be by RCI taking their older ships (or even new smaller ships) and moving them to a new brand - at least not unless they create a new brand with truly significant market distinction, like what we see Virgin doing.

[twangster]

The other factor to consider is efficiency.  By their own claim for example, Symphony is 25% more efficient compared to Oasis. 

Compared to older ships, gains in efficiency will start to play into the equation.  At some point the ongoing operating costs as well as maintenance costs will make older vessels less appealing to keep in the fleet.  

If it costs $1,000 per 10 nm to carry 2,000 pax vs, $1,000 per 10 nm to carry 4,000 pax in the super thin margin cruise industry that's one thing.  As fuel prices rise (as they will again) in the long term there is motivation beyond appearing to be green to operate efficiently for no other reason than to save money and therefore make more money.   

You might be able to keep an old vessel operating but it's very difficult to change it's operational efficiency.  Changing some light bulbs to LED helps but most ships are built around the engines.  It's very difficult to replace the power plants in a ship.  Cheaper to sell them off and build new.  

Ships with very small fleets such as Disney can be effectively taken out of this conversation.  Running four ships is very different to running 20 or 30 in a fleet and even more with sister companies.  Boutique lines such as Disney or Silverseas and Virgin with just one projected ship have a very targeted market focus but aren't competitors in the mass cruise market where every dollar spent per passenger mile is critical to financial success.  

 

[tiny260]

On 1/17/2019 at 4:55 AM, mattymay said:

Royal Caribbean International will open five ‘Perfect Day’ private islands over the next five years

I just got off Allure, one topic that came up a couple of times with different members of the staff was that Royal was looking at developing land on Roatan as a private destination, they used the term Coco Cay'ish.

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, tiny260 said:

I just got off Allure, one topic that came up a couple of times with different members of the staff was that Royal was looking at developing land on Roatan as a private destination, they used the term Coco Cay'ish.

Makes sense since it's reachable from Galveston.  Provides another port for Oasis class from Florida too.  Win-win.  

[WAAAYTOOO]

At what point will the cruise line industry become saturated ?  If Royal Caribbean will be offloading their old inventory, how many more "older" ships will find homes in the lower echelon ?  I know that the bean counters <think they> know what they're doing but it seems like, at the rate that all of the major lines are building new ships, at some point - and it can't be that far off ! - they will have more inventory than they will have passengers.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

At what point will the cruise line industry become saturated ? 

That concern comes up all the time with investors at RC's earnings call.  The cruise industry as a whole seems quite bullish on growth and capacity. Despite how popular cruising is today, a remarkably low amount of Americans have cruised before.

[twangster]

20 minutes ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

At what point will the cruise line industry become saturated ?  If Royal Caribbean will be offloading their old inventory, how many more "older" ships will find homes in the lower echelon ?  I know that the bean counters <think they> know what they're doing but it seems like, at the rate that all of the major lines are building new ships, at some point - and it can't be that far off ! - they will have more inventory than they will have passengers.

Great question.  At the moment they are filling the ships.  Being cash rich at the moment is a great time to invest in more ships and more private islands providing more ports for them to sail to.  The flip side would be a down turn in the economy reducing demand.  That might provide opportunity for frequent floaters who can still afford it to find some deals.  Either way it's a win for cruisers with more ships, ports and variety.  

[lovecruising!!!]

On 1/17/2019 at 8:17 AM, Susie said:

Agree, I think RCI moving too fast. It needs to slow down a bit on spending.

I agree ! I just wonder what the costs are for that..very vague article.

[JasonL]

Buying Islands is expensive I'm sure, but I'm also willing to bet it pays back on their investment 10 fold. They are creating fun destinations and controlling 100% of the excursion revenue at those ports. Cruise prices could even go down if they don't charge port taxes, or they can charge their own port tax to help fund the Island. 

[mworkman]

51 minutes ago, JasonL said:

Buying Islands is expensive I'm sure, but I'm also willing to bet it pays back on their investment 10 fold. They are creating fun destinations and controlling 100% of the excursion revenue at those ports. Cruise prices could even go down if they don't charge port taxes, or they can charge their own port tax to help fund the Island. 

They do charge port taxes for private islands.  Since we did stop @ CocoCay, we received a whopping $5.10 back each.

[twangster]

Just now, mworkman said:

They do charge port taxes for private islands.  Since we did stop @ CocoCay, we received a whopping $5.10 back each.

To be clear, they don't own CocoCay, it's a long term lease.  I think I've read the lease agreement (originally executed by Admiral Cruises) contains payments to the Government of the Bahamas on a per guest basis, like a head tax.  However unlike Nassau where there is a pier, terminal and the associated personnel that operate it, those additional passenger facility charges are not bundled into CocoCay's port fees.  

[whenismynextcruise]

Bring on more private islands I say. The days of quiet ports on beautiful Carribean islands are fading. With the amount of people traveling in the world now many ports are not just that nice anymore. Variations of that theme have been covered heavily in this and other blogs. All of the ports now seem to focus on shopping shopping and and more shopping. I think for the casual cruisers that is great. Duty free and they get a chance to buy something maybe they wouldn't but at home. A special rememberance for that anniversary cruised they have carefully saved for. I have participated in my share of adding $ to their economies. Alas, after umpteen cruises behind me I am not there to find the best deal on a watch anymore. I think a lot of people feel that way. As experienced cruisers how much did you spend in Nassau, Cozumel or Barbados the last time you were there? Not counting a meal or 2 I am guessing not a lot.  Or even stayed on the ship and spent nothing. With the private islands cruise lines have the opportunity to make the experience tailored to the passengers. The activities, the excursions on or around the islands, the food, etc. Also they will be able to maintain the islands as beautiful vacation spots. Have you ever been to a dirty disney World? Or a broken down looking 5 star hotel? I like the idea of sailing to a private island that I dont have to go through throngs of vendors, or hassled for every form of transportation to get to beautiful beach or cabana or whatever excursion I may want to do. With the trend on many of the cruise lines catering to luxury suites with perks (endlessly discussed here) or areas of the ship like the Haven people are clearly looking for top shelf experiences and are willing to pay for it. Imagine what the marketing minds of cruise lines could come up with for perks on these islands for higher tiered members?  Diamond member retaurants? Emerald level beach area? The "Key" gets you on a luxury launch to the island...possibilities are literally endless. Would that interest you? It interests me for sure.

I am still very happy to go on a cruise with multiple stops in many island nations and hopefully be able to enjoy the culture of each while adding $ to their economy while I am there. But, if the option is there to sail to a well maintained luxury "perfect day" island and possibly stay over night? I think I am on board for that experience.

 

[JasonL]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:27 AM, whenismynextcruise said:

Bring on more private islands I say. The days of quiet ports on beautiful Carribean islands are fading. With the amount of people traveling in the world now many ports are not just that nice anymore. Variations of that theme have been covered heavily in this and other blogs. All of the ports now seem to focus on shopping shopping and and more shopping. I think for the casual cruisers that is great. Duty free and they get a chance to buy something maybe they wouldn't but at home. A special rememberance for that anniversary cruised they have carefully saved for. I have participated in my share of adding $ to their economies. Alas, after umpteen cruises behind me I am not there to find the best deal on a watch anymore. I think a lot of people feel that way. As experienced cruisers how much did you spend in Nassau, Cozumel or Barbados the last time you were there? Not counting a meal or 2 I am guessing not a lot.  Or even stayed on the ship and spent nothing. With the private islands cruise lines have the opportunity to make the experience tailored to the passengers. The activities, the excursions on or around the islands, the food, etc. Also they will be able to maintain the islands as beautiful vacation spots. Have you ever been to a dirty disney World? Or a broken down looking 5 star hotel? I like the idea of sailing to a private island that I dont have to go through throngs of vendors, or hassled for every form of transportation to get to beautiful beach or cabana or whatever excursion I may want to do. With the trend on many of the cruise lines catering to luxury suites with perks (endlessly discussed here) or areas of the ship like the Haven people are clearly looking for top shelf experiences and are willing to pay for it. Imagine what the marketing minds of cruise lines could come up with for perks on these islands for higher tiered members?  Diamond member retaurants? Emerald level beach area? The "Key" gets you on a luxury launch to the island...possibilities are literally endless. Would that interest you? It interests me for sure.

I am still very happy to go on a cruise with multiple stops in many island nations and hopefully be able to enjoy the culture of each while adding $ to their economy while I am there. But, if the option is there to sail to a well maintained luxury "perfect day" island and possibly stay over night? I think I am on board for that experience.

 

I think this is well said. Obviously there will be varying opinions, but I think this represents a lot of cruisers and not necessarily just experienced cruisers. I have never cared about shopping, I cruise to have a lazy vacation with lots of relaxing and seeing beautiful sights and experiencing direct cultures. For me the cruise life is sitting by a beach or pool with drink in hand relaxing to the sound of the ocean. For beach days: If I can walk right off the ship to a beach designed for that specific purpose and get a bonus of not having to hassle with getting to the location or fighting off vendors.... sign me up.  

Of course I will still want to explore different islands and see the sights, but as far as beach days I think the private Islands are ideal.

[jticarruthers]

I have mixed feelings on the private islands .. some of my best experiences have been getting off at ports of call and having a great time .. in some cases cultural (touring a working farm in Jamaica) in others purely experiential (Segway and Zipline tours that could have happened anywhere but occured on the islands in question). Other ports of call i would much rather skip (Nassau, Cozumel) and so hitting a gorgeous and well run private island would be a preferable alternative.

[twangster]

1 hour ago, jticarruthers said:

I have mixed feelings on the private islands .. some of my best experiences have been getting off at ports of call and having a great time .. in some cases cultural (touring a working farm in Jamaica) in others purely experiential (Segway and Zipline tours that could have happened anywhere but occured on the islands in question). Other ports of call i would much rather skip (Nassau, Cozumel) and so hitting a gorgeous and well run private island would be a preferable alternative.

Indeed.  Some people love the ports I do and some don’t.  I love Cozumel.  Others don’t.  You are not the first to have an opinion contrary to mine.  Proof that we all cruise differently.  

Would I desire an itinerary with nothing but private destinations? Probably not.  Someone else might.  

More choices is generally a good thing, as long as they don’t overload us one way or the other.  

[Al Horner]

If Royal Caribbean really wants to build five new private islands, they should probably start building the piers now.