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On 4/7/2024 at 3:54 PM, tonyfsu21 said:

Interesting that a person with this supposed wealth is traveling for a week on middle tier family cruise line. Why are they not laying out on the beautiful white sand beaches of St Barths at Eden Rock? 

I constantly wonder this also when I see the prices for the largest suites on Royal ships. I love cruises, but if I had a $30k+ budget to spend on a week's vacation for my family of four, there's no way I'm going on a Royal Caribbean cruise. For that kind of money, you can go just about anywhere in the world, stay at a 5* hotel, and eat at Michelin star restaurants every night. 

On 4/10/2024 at 11:29 AM, b_resh_uh said:

I do think the insane pricing going on at the Orlando theme parks has a part to play in this

Assuming we operate under the dastardly capitalist assumption that a product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, Disney realized it had underpriced it's vacations for decades and jacked everything up over the past 10 years or so. Disney went from -- in the 80s and 90s -- being a vacation most families could afford, to something comparable to a cruise or resort vacation, to a trip difficult for a family of 4 to pull off for less than $8k+. 

The cruise industry is now realizing the same thing. Why offer something for $6k if you can sell it for $9k and people will still pay it? If Icon is the high-end Royal experience that competes with Disney World, why shouldn't it cost about the same as a week at Disney World? 

I keep saying, we are all in for disappointment over the next several years. Royal's prices are going up by significant %s, and they won't be going back down. This is the new pricing standard. The budgets we are accustomed to for our vacations are obsolete. 

On 4/5/2024 at 10:27 AM, michaelp1446 said:

It seemed that the sensitivity had been adjusted from 2 years ago to reduce the number of false button pushes. When the elevator gets packed, there seemed to be a lot of people that accidentally leaned against the buttons. I don't know which was a brighter red -the buttons or the faces of those who realized what they had done

 

If the buttons were reduced to make them less sensitive, I can't imagine what they were like before. As it is now, if you're within 6 inches of the button is lights up. As I said, on easily 95% of the elevator trips I took there were buttons accidentally hit either by people while I was on it or by people who had just gotten off. If it was more sensitive before, you must've not even been able to stand in the elevator without setting them off. 

15 hours ago, Jamesszy94 said:

Could it have been that you went during school holidays/holiday season?

 

Nah. I was on Symphony during Winter Break once, Wonder last Spring Break, and Mariner two Spring Breaks ago. Fully used to boats jammed full of kids. It really boiled down to fewer venues and areas to do things, and much worse traffic flow.

18 hours ago, TakeMeSomewhere said:

It's also smart of Royal to have different ships for different needs. Cold vs warm weather, young children focused vs more adult focused. Even if Royal is a family brand it doesn't mean that's all they have to do. It is important for people to research or to have a travel agent to research the right ship for them.

 

I agree. And this is why it makes sense that many of the older boats (with naturally less to do for families) are typically used for cruises less geared towards children (9+ days, unique ports, more remote embarkation locations like PR, etc.) I knew what we were getting into before we left. I worried my kids would have less to do without all the venues and activities I spoke of above. I just figured it was a new boat and it's Royal (which does target families above all else), so I could trust there'd be enough onboard to compensate. But honestly, they made the problem worse by scheduling adults-only activities during prime hours (middle of the afternoon, early evening, etc.), removing kids from some of the key venues and activities that catered to them. 

We're focusing a lot on the "my kids didn't have as much to do" narrative here, but honestly it was everything else too. The crowds and elevators is nothing I've ever experienced on a Royal boat (including sold-out Wonder and Symphony during school breaks). And I felt overall that the additions (North Star, iFly, SeaPlex, 270) didn't nearly balance out all the subtraction (Central Park, Boardwalk, Sports Court, Aqua Theater, water slides, Abyss, play area on Wonder, mini-golf, ice rink, karaoke bar.) 

I respect everyone's opinions here. Most things in life are subjective.

I will say, however, the predominant nature of the responses 1) cite the fact that Quantum ships were developed for cold weather, and/or 2) appear to be written by people without young kids who are on cruises to have a mostly 'adult' experience. All of that is fine. It makes total sense for there to be cruise ships with more indoor options if they're going to be deployed outside of warmer climates. It also makes total sense for there to be cruises with more adult-driven experiences (although I'd argue the lack of Central Park and the Aqua Theater with no replacement is a bit underwhelming in that respect.)

However, for most of Odyssey's short history -- including this cruise I just went on -- it has been deployed in the Caribbean packed with families with young kids -- which is increasingly Royal's target demographic.

If I were taking a Celebrity Cruise in Alaska, Odyssey would be an amazing ship. But for a cruise full of kids needing things to do during two sea days, it underwhelmed. The SeaPlex continually kicking kids off the sport court to have adult sports competitions, giving the hundreds of kids no where to go on a ship built for cold weather, was particularly unideal. It was a Spring Break Caribbean cruise with no waterslides, no mini-golf, no sports court, no Boardwalk, no carousel, no Abyss, no ice rink, and no designated karaoke venue. It does, however, have a lot of specialty restaurants and a giant crane that you could pay to stand in and take pictures. To me, that wasn't an even trade.  

I also didn't mention the massive footprints of the Music Hall and Boleros. There are huge back areas of these venues far from the entrance, which serve no purpose other than to provide huge spaces for people to drink. Again -- great for a Celebrity or Virgin ship catering to adult experiences. Not ideal for one catering to families. 

Before I begin, let me say that Odyssey is a beautiful ship and -- more importantly -- the service and staff are excellent. Our cruise last week had the best service and easily the best food of any Royal ship I've been on. I can't stress this enough. After several cruises lamenting the quality of MDR service and food quality, and the freshness of food in the Windjammer, everything on this cruise was fantastic. 

That aside, I've never before been disappointed by a ship on Royal -- and our group (all of us veteran cruisers) was continually underwhelmed by Odyssey's design. You wonder what happened during development of the Quantum Ultra ships that they totally missed the mark after killing it with the Oasis Class. 

I've been on Wonder, Symphony, Freedom, and Mariner, and I felt even the Freedom & Mariner were superior in so many ways.

• Quantum boats were developed after Oasis Class but they didn't include Central Park, Boardwalk (+ carousel & Abyss), Aqua Theater, or skating rink -- yet they basically added nothing to replace them.
• The elevators. OMG  The no-touch buttons are a disaster. Of the 50 elevator rides I took during the week, I think I can count on one hand the times I got in and there weren't at least 2 or 3 buttons hit with no one getting off. You couldn't get within 2 feet of the panel without accidentally hitting a button. It was a joke among every passenger on the ship. I get that it's a COVID thing, but Wonder doesn't have this issue.
• The SeaPlex is a cool room but the big mistake was removing the sports court and skating rink, etc., and thinking the SeaPlex could handle everything. The sports court on every ship I've ever been on is in constant use by kids playing soccer or basketball. But because of the lack of other venues, every time kids would go out to play, within 30 minutes they were kicking everyone off for bumper cars, laser tag, adult sports tournaments, pickleball lessons. It was crazy. You had a boat FULL of kids on spring break and every time they started having fun they'd shut the court down for an adult 3-on-3 basketball tournament and leave all the kids with nothing to do. 
• No waterslides. I realize not everyone cares about waterslides, but at this point they've been an expectation on all ships and cruise lines for 15 years. It's odd that they felt waterslides were unimportant enough to build Quantum class with none and then do a total 180 and decide they're so important that Icon needed SIX. They seem to have sacrificed them for the North Star, which is gimmicky, limited to a small % of passengers, and a clear effort to replace something free with something that drives $$$.
• The 270 Theater that essentially replaces the skating rink and Aqua Theater is terribly underutilized. We were on the boat for 6 days and never had a reason to go there. 
• In general, I had the overwhelming sense that the amazing job Royal has done with crowd control on other ship classes was totally missed here. I've never felt crowded on a ship, but Odyssey is full of overcrowded venues (SeaPlex and Esplanade, particularly) and they totally screwed up the Windjammer. Half the seating is way in the back far away from the buffets, and as a result the WJ always felt crowded. There are buffet stations in the back but they were never open, even during the busiest of breakfasts, etc. 

Again, staff, service, food, cleanliness -- all excellent. But Royal totally missed the boat, so to speak, on ship design here. If not for the food I'd go on Mariner 10x again before I'd go Quantum class. 

Just my opinion 

15 hours ago, twangster said:

Formal dress code is rarely enforced to absolute standards such as men must wear a tie and jacket.  

 

Correction. Formal dress code is never enforced. 

One quick update here... It seems at the very least Royal is changing the availability of some excursions.

I'm going on Odyssey in 2 weeks and in our Facebook group multiple people are reporting that Royal has cancelled their Labadee excursions (jet skiing and kayaking). Someone else has said their cabana hasn't been cancelled, so perhaps they're just limiting the excursions that venture off the coast but are still bringing people to the port.

6 hours ago, loki007 said:

Star Link will be much better than cell service at sea

Yeah not an expert on this but isn't there no cell service in much of the ocean? Isn't VOOM pretty much the only option?

Just keep in mind that Royal will wait for their own excursion to get back if it's late, but they won't wait for one they're not affiliated with. So if something unforeseen happens, you're SOL. In many of these ports, the transportation can be unreliable. Old busses and vans break down. There's blockages in the road or unexpected traffic. Or sometimes someone else on the excursion who isn't with a boat doesn't get back in time and you're waiting.

There are a lot of variables, so I'd be careful. I'd find out when you need to be back before you book anything (it could be as early as 4 p.m. depending on the upcoming trip) and then make sure you're scheduled to be back 90 min. to 2 hours before. 

1 minute ago, WAAAYTOOO said:

 Next stop - Falmouth.

From Labadee to somewhere more dangerous 

Enjoy!

12 hours ago, CanHardlyWait said:

How sad you felt the need to point out both sides after reading. All because some took my personal feelings as a judgement on there actions? Live life. Enjoy life. Go anywhere and everywhere. Nothing said today was anything other than my personal take on how I need to roll, to be ok with myself at the end of the day. 

I didn't take it personally -- don't get the wrong idea. I absolutely feel you have a right to make that decision, whether it be for political reasons or simply because you cruise for the ship and not the port. I don't judge you for either one. My comment about it not being a sin was more about the greater state of the world and humanity -- that people suffer everywhere and it's not a sin to enjoy life in spite of that. 

11 hours ago, Eighty8 said:

But there is a significant difference between there and Haiti... Jamaica actually has a functioning govt. Something that basically doesn't exist at this point in Haiti. Appears that most of the state apparatus has collapsed in Haiti, including the police and military. That is not normal... It has a level 4 'Do Not Travel' warning from the US State Dept. That doesn't exist in any other Caribbean port. 

 

This is fair. I suppose I'd argue that a "functioning government" doesn't necessarily matter when your murder rate is 3x higher than a place where there isn't supposedly such a thing. But I see your point. 

On 3/4/2024 at 2:16 PM, smokeybandit said:

The issue with Bermuda isn't storms hitting the island, but storms cutting off the path from the USA to Bermuda.

Usually, yes. But this one last year actually hit Bermuda!

There's no way you'd be kept off a ship for a (US) misdemeanor.

I'd also venture to say there are convicted felons on every cruise. It's just not that particularly uncommon. 

I'm no expert in the justice system, but I also imagine some violent ex-cons -- and certainly anyone on probation -- aren't able to hold passports, so their ability to go anywhere too interesting on a cruise would be limited to begin with. 

2 hours ago, Vancity Cruiser said:

I am not comparing the violence. You stated that you could not party where people are being murdered in the streets 6 hours away. My point is that violence occurs everywhere ( over 20,000 people are murdered in the US every year)  and while we should feel empathy for the plight of the victims of violence, it should also not stop us from living our lives and enjoying the beauty of nature.

This is true. There are people suffering everywhere. There are people within miles of where you live. In general, people enjoy life while others suffer. That's no sin. That, as well as empathy, is part of humanity.

So much of this is misconceptions and assumptions. Granted there's active violence going on in Haiti, but the murder rate in Jamaica is 3x what it is in Haiti -- in fact, it's the highest murder rate in the world. But none of us think twice about getting off in Jamaica for a cruise because YA MON JAMAICA IS PARADISE while Haiti is a dirty slum. But in general in all of these places, the violence takes place far from where tourists go. These countries depend on tourism for their economy. They are very careful to keep violence, poverty, etc. hidden from view. 

2 hours ago, David K said:

 I thought I read that specialty coffees are included in the deluxe and refreshment beverage packages, but could be wrong.  I understand the Starbucks location costs extra. 

Yes you're correct. I didn't realize you were getting the drink package. If you drink regular coffee vs. specialty coffees, you can get that in the park cafe. 

38 minutes ago, RCIfan1912 said:

 

Anyway our 10 year old had no interest in that of course, I don't blame him. We left him at the pool, we said you don't leave the indoor pool are except to get ice cream right next door and right back to that area. Don't leave with anyone, don't leave at all except for the ice cream and be respectful of everyone. He was great and followed directions. 

Not a good idea or ok in your book? Just curious because the decision was already made obviously. 

Ehh... I'm not going to give you some angry "WATCH YOUR WILD CHILDREN" answer a lot of Scrooges on these boards will (I have kids that age as well and believe the presence of lots of kids is a given when cruising Royal), but I wouldn't leave my kid at the pool for that amount of time. If you were to do it, I'd say they would need to have a phone on them that's connected to ship internet and you would have the same so they could reach you if needed. Pool or not, that's probably a bit long to leave a kid that age on the ship. It has less to do with their own maturity and trustworthiness and more to do with them simply being unaccompanied. Things can happen that have nothing to do with it being their fault, particularly on the pool deck.

1 hour ago, OCSC Mike said:

I enjoy having standard breakfast food in the morning like cook to order omelets with usual sides, bagels and lox, the McMuffin from Park Cafe, pastries from wherever, etc. The rest of the day I enjoy making several trips to places like El Loco Fresh for tacos, Park Cafe for a kummelweck or panini, the WJ for random items (often Indian food), etc. I've even found Sorrento's much improved recently although that's generally just a late night snack. By the time I get to dinner, I'm not looking for a 5-star meal. Unless we're doing specialty dining (we don't do much), I'm content with some pre-dinner snacks from the CL, the current MDR, and some WJ.

You make an entirely different point here which I fully agree with. As far as variety and choices, I definitely boast what people are going to find on cruises. One of the biggest reasons why we choose to go on cruises vs. other vacations is because anyone can basically eat whatever they want, whenever they want. If one kid is hungry at 12 and the other isn't until 1:30, who cares? One parent can stay at the pool with one kid while the other runs the first kid to the WJ. The other can go to El Loco later (I don't know if you have kids, but any time multiple kids don't have to eat from the same place at the same time, it's a massive benefit for anyone taking care of them). My kids also love that if we're walking through the Promenade they can snag a piece of pizza and sit down for a few as a mid-afternoon snack. When walking through Central Park I always peek into the Cafe to see if something catches my eye. And, as I said, we frequently visit both the MDR and WJ during dinner. 

That is absolutely a selling point of cruises. It's one of the things I love the most. It's the 5-star meal that I don't want people to have expectations for. 

This whole thing is insane. Sickening, obviously, but as someone (like all of you) who has taken a number of cruises I'm trying to imagine how and where you'd even hide a camera in those tiny staterooms that would go unnoticed but also have an angle that would capture anything this guy wants to see. It seems like even if it worked once or twice, pretty quickly someone would find it. There's just not that many areas within a stateroom that go unseen for very long.

On 3/4/2024 at 8:10 PM, OCSC Mike said:

I still do. Food is subjective.

Haven’t been disappointed yet. Thought the MDR was fine, not great, many years ago & still do. Some aspects of WJ used to be better but I can always find something. 

Again, food is subjective. If you choose to tell people how they will feel b/c it’s how you feel, that’s your prerogative. I’d encourage them to try everything & form their own opinion.

I agree. It's not that I want to influence people's opinions. It's more so that a lot of people still have the perception that high-quality (even fancy) meals are a big part of the cruising experience. We're going on Odyssey later this month with a few families. One of them hasn't been on a cruise in a long time, so I've told the dad who I'm friends with not to get too excited about the food. Not that it's bad or that everything is going to be awful -- just not to have high expectations. The food quality isn't horrible, it's just not a reason go to on a cruise anymore.  

23 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I was kind of surprised RC even kept the aqua theater concept on Icon.

I was a little surprised but moving it indoors was clearly an intentional change to at least avoid wind and natural elements. Obviously the Aqua Theater is something they really like and has more reward than risk because they didn't make any adaptations to Utopia or, as far as we know, Oasis 7. 

24 minutes ago, Crown&AnchorEsq said:

They were definitely not always running with the full "cast" particularly when it came to divers.  If  you only go once you do not really realize it.  You just assume that only one person is supposed to be diving at a time as opposed to 2 or more synchronized divers. 

We usually go to the Aqua show twice during our cruises so this is something I've noticed as well. With diving, it's doesn't seem to be a matter of a member of the cast participating in the show or not -- it's literally that particular dive. I don't know how it works, but you'll often see a diver walk out onto the platform or diving board, look out above the crowd and then walk back behind the stage rather than dive. There's some kind of go/no-go signal they get as to whether they should dive or not. I don't know if it's based on conditions, position of the other cast members, etc. Sometimes they come out and dive, sometimes they come out and walk back, and sometimes they don't come out at all.

Yeah, we do this as well sometimes for a couple seasons. One, sometimes my kids want to see a little more variety than what's on the kids menu in the MDR so we'll head up there after. Second, sometimes we want more dessert options. 

It seems kind of gluttonous but honestly there's not a ton to do right after dinner so it's a fun thing to go up to the Windjammer, grab dessert, and then walk around the top deck outside a bit.

We were on Wonder last year and the same thing happened. The seas were a tad rough and she slipped off one of the lower diving boards and fell fortunately into the pool. They nixed most of the diving for the rest of the show but I think they said the next day everyone was okay. 

On 3/3/2024 at 11:45 AM, David K said:

We are booked in a spacious infinite cabin and have some concerns after watching videos and reading reviews.  We are thinking of switching to a standard balcony room, but deck 8 is only available.  Can you hear noise from Central Park in your cabin?  We are specifically looking at a cabin directly behind Park Cafe.  We would really like to switch, but concerned about noise.

If you're on Deck 8, your balcony would be facing the ocean and not Central Park. You'd be in a closed hallway and would have to walk back to the elevator banks to access the park itself or the Park Cafe. You definitely will not get any noise from the park. In fact, even if you were to get a balcony overlooking the park on Decks 9 or 10, Central Park is always pretty quiet. 

On 3/3/2024 at 11:45 AM, David K said:

I suspect I'll be the coffee runner in the morning.  Can I order 3 coffees by myself using our cards (2x Deluxe pkg & 1x refreshment pkg) at Pearl Cafe or does everyone have to be present?

 

Just keep in mind that regular coffee is free. If you want specialty coffee (espresso, a latte, etc.) that is additional. But if you're just out to grab regular coffee, you won't need anyone's cards. Also, if you do switch to Deck 8 and you only want regular coffee, you can get that at the Park Cafe and won't have to go to the Pearl Cafe. 

I tell people -- particularly those who are going on a first cruise -- very openly that I don't go on cruises for the food anymore. It's not what it used to be. You're going to an all-inclusive resort. The food is average. You go to the MDR for the experience of having a meal with family and friends after a day in the sun, but my expectations of the food are virtually nil at this point. It clearly looks and tastes like food made in large quantities. 

If you go expecting a good meal at the MDR or Windjammer, you're absolutely going to be disappointed. That's just not the point anymore. But I've adapted my expectations to that point and I don't care anymore. I'm there for the fun and the vacation -- not the food.