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That's a fair point. Obviously there's less regular need to move between the adults-only area and the waterpark than the waterpark and the splash park. But it seems to be a lot more complicated than that. For example, what then do you do with all the Boardwalk balcony rooms? That's a couple hundred rooms that would look out over the adults area. I don't think the adults looking to get away from children would enjoy having dozens of kids in rooms above them staring down and making noise, and you definitely can't make all those rooms adults only. So, my guess is putting the adults area there was an impossibility that would've demanded a redesign of the whole ship. They spend years designing these things, so there's rhyme and reason to everything and logistical things we don't know about.

#1 - I don't think they're ever going to install nets. While these incidents make news, I don't think suicide rates are any higher on cruise ships than anywhere else (in fact, they're probably lower). It's not a cruise ship problem. It's a mental health problem. #2 - Not to be morbid, but to be fair to our friends in the animal kingdom, my assumption is anyone jumping off a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean would probably drown. Sharks are out there, for sure, but they're not typically aggressively hunting humans.

I did think about this when I first saw the design. The objective was to split up the usual high-traffic areas to prevent anywhere from being too crowded -- which it does a great job of -- but for anyone with kids of split age groups, this does present an issue. But... these ships are increasingly built to be like theme parks with distinctly different areas. And if you've ever been to Disney or any other type of theme park or water park with kids of different ages (where one wants to ride coasters while the other wants to meet Cinderella, or one wants to be in the kiddie pool while the other wants to go on slides), you know you either need to split up or compromise. To me, it's not that different from any other Royal boat where there are things to do all over the ship. I often find myself going with one kid to karaoke while my wife takes the other to play sports. Then there are times when we say to one of them, "too bad, we're going to stay together and spend time as a family now." It's just a reality of being on a massive ship with a million things to do. I've gone on cruises with just my family of 4, to groups as big as 5 families, all with kids of various ages. It's hard and perhaps even unrealistic to keep everyone together on a cruise when there's so much to do.

I constantly wonder this also when I see the prices for the largest suites on Royal ships. I love cruises, but if I had a $30k+ budget to spend on a week's vacation for my family of four, there's no way I'm going on a Royal Caribbean cruise. For that kind of money, you can go just about anywhere in the world, stay at a 5* hotel, and eat at Michelin star restaurants every night.

Assuming we operate under the dastardly capitalist assumption that a product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, Disney realized it had underpriced it's vacations for decades and jacked everything up over the past 10 years or so. Disney went from -- in the 80s and 90s -- being a vacation most families could afford, to something comparable to a cruise or resort vacation, to a trip difficult for a family of 4 to pull off for less than $8k+. The cruise industry is now realizing the same thing. Why offer something for $6k if you can sell it for $9k and people will still pay it? If Icon is the high-end Royal experience that competes with Disney World, why shouldn't it cost about the same as a week at Disney World? I keep saying, we are all in for disappointment over the next several years. Royal's prices are going up by significant %s, and they won't be going back down. This is the new pricing standard. The budgets we are accustomed to for our vacations are obsolete.

If the buttons were reduced to make them less sensitive, I can't imagine what they were like before. As it is now, if you're within 6 inches of the button is lights up. As I said, on easily 95% of the elevator trips I took there were buttons accidentally hit either by people while I was on it or by people who had just gotten off. If it was more sensitive before, you must've not even been able to stand in the elevator without setting them off.

Nah. I was on Symphony during Winter Break once, Wonder last Spring Break, and Mariner two Spring Breaks ago. Fully used to boats jammed full of kids. It really boiled down to fewer venues and areas to do things, and much worse traffic flow. I agree. And this is why it makes sense that many of the older boats (with naturally less to do for families) are typically used for cruises less geared towards children (9+ days, unique ports, more remote embarkation locations like PR, etc.) I knew what we were getting into before we left. I worried my kids would have less to do without all the venues and activities I spoke of above. I just figured it was a new boat and it's Royal (which does target families above all else), so I could trust there'd be enough onboard to compensate. But honestly, they made the problem worse by scheduling adults-only activities during prime hours (middle of the afternoon, early evening, etc.), removing kids from some of the key venues and activities that catered to them. We're focusing a lot on the "my kids didn't have as much to do" narrative here, but honestly it was everything else too. The crowds and elevators is nothing I've ever experienced on a Royal boat (including sold-out Wonder and Symphony during school breaks). And I felt overall that the additions (North Star, iFly, SeaPlex, 270) didn't nearly balance out all the subtraction (Central Park, Boardwalk, Sports Court, Aqua Theater, water slides, Abyss, play area on Wonder, mini-golf, ice rink, karaoke bar.)

I respect everyone's opinions here. Most things in life are subjective. I will say, however, the predominant nature of the responses 1) cite the fact that Quantum ships were developed for cold weather, and/or 2) appear to be written by people without young kids who are on cruises to have a mostly 'adult' experience. All of that is fine. It makes total sense for there to be cruise ships with more indoor options if they're going to be deployed outside of warmer climates. It also makes total sense for there to be cruises with more adult-driven experiences (although I'd argue the lack of Central Park and the Aqua Theater with no replacement is a bit underwhelming in that respect.) However, for most of Odyssey's short history -- including this cruise I just went on -- it has been deployed in the Caribbean packed with families with young kids -- which is increasingly Royal's target demographic. If I were taking a Celebrity Cruise in Alaska, Odyssey would be an amazing ship. But for a cruise full of kids needing things to do during two sea days, it underwhelmed. The SeaPlex continually kicking kids off the sport court to have adult sports competitions, giving the hundreds of kids no where to go on a ship built for cold weather, was particularly unideal. It was a Spring Break Caribbean cruise with no waterslides, no mini-golf, no sports court, no Boardwalk, no carousel, no Abyss, no ice rink, and no designated karaoke venue. It does, however, have a lot of specialty restaurants and a giant crane that you could pay to stand in and take pictures. To me, that wasn't an even trade. I also didn't mention the massive footprints of the Music Hall and Boleros. There are huge back areas of these venues far from the entrance, which serve no purpose other than to provide huge spaces for people to drink. Again -- great for a Celebrity or Virgin ship catering to adult experiences. Not ideal for one catering to families.

Before I begin, let me say that Odyssey is a beautiful ship and -- more importantly -- the service and staff are excellent. Our cruise last week had the best service and easily the best food of any Royal ship I've been on. I can't stress this enough. After several cruises lamenting the quality of MDR service and food quality, and the freshness of food in the Windjammer, everything on this cruise was fantastic. That aside, I've never before been disappointed by a ship on Royal -- and our group (all of us veteran cruisers) was continually underwhelmed by Odyssey's design. You wonder what happened during development of the Quantum Ultra ships that they totally missed the mark after killing it with the Oasis Class. I've been on Wonder, Symphony, Freedom, and Mariner, and I felt even the Freedom & Mariner were superior in so many ways. Quantum boats were developed after Oasis Class but they didn't include Central Park, Boardwalk (+ carousel & Abyss), Aqua Theater, or skating rink -- yet they basically added nothing to replace them. The elevators. OMG The no-touch buttons are a disaster. Of the 50 elevator rides I took during the week, I think I can count on one hand the times I got in and there weren't at least 2 or 3 buttons hit with no one getting off. You couldn't get within 2 feet of the panel without accidentally hitting a button. It was a joke among every passenger on the ship. I get that it's a COVID thing, but Wonder doesn't have this issue. The SeaPlex is a cool room but the big mistake was removing the sports court and skating rink, etc., and thinking the SeaPlex could handle everything. The sports court on every ship I've ever been on is in constant use by kids playing soccer or basketball. But because of the lack of other venues, every time kids would go out to play, within 30 minutes they were kicking everyone off for bumper cars, laser tag, adult sports tournaments, pickleball lessons. It was crazy. You had a boat FULL of kids on spring break and every time they started having fun they'd shut the court down for an adult 3-on-3 basketball tournament and leave all the kids with nothing to do. No waterslides. I realize not everyone cares about waterslides, but at this point they've been an expectation on all ships and cruise lines for 15 years. It's odd that they felt waterslides were unimportant enough to build Quantum class with none and then do a total 180 and decide they're so important that Icon needed SIX. They seem to have sacrificed them for the North Star, which is gimmicky, limited to a small % of passengers, and a clear effort to replace something free with something that drives $$$. The 270 Theater that essentially replaces the skating rink and Aqua Theater is terribly underutilized. We were on the boat for 6 days and never had a reason to go there. In general, I had the overwhelming sense that the amazing job Royal has done with crowd control on other ship classes was totally missed here. I've never felt crowded on a ship, but Odyssey is full of overcrowded venues (SeaPlex and Esplanade, particularly) and they totally screwed up the Windjammer. Half the seating is way in the back far away from the buffets, and as a result the WJ always felt crowded. There are buffet stations in the back but they were never open, even during the busiest of breakfasts, etc. Again, staff, service, food, cleanliness -- all excellent. But Royal totally missed the boat, so to speak, on ship design here. If not for the food I'd go on Mariner 10x again before I'd go Quantum class. Just my opinion

Correction. Formal dress code is never enforced.

One quick update here... It seems at the very least Royal is changing the availability of some excursions. I'm going on Odyssey in 2 weeks and in our Facebook group multiple people are reporting that Royal has cancelled their Labadee excursions (jet skiing and kayaking). Someone else has said their cabana hasn't been cancelled, so perhaps they're just limiting the excursions that venture off the coast but are still bringing people to the port.

Yeah not an expert on this but isn't there no cell service in much of the ocean? Isn't VOOM pretty much the only option?

Just keep in mind that Royal will wait for their own excursion to get back if it's late, but they won't wait for one they're not affiliated with. So if something unforeseen happens, you're SOL. In many of these ports, the transportation can be unreliable. Old busses and vans break down. There's blockages in the road or unexpected traffic. Or sometimes someone else on the excursion who isn't with a boat doesn't get back in time and you're waiting. There are a lot of variables, so I'd be careful. I'd find out when you need to be back before you book anything (it could be as early as 4 p.m. depending on the upcoming trip) and then make sure you're scheduled to be back 90 min. to 2 hours before.

From Labadee to somewhere more dangerous Enjoy!

I didn't take it personally -- don't get the wrong idea. I absolutely feel you have a right to make that decision, whether it be for political reasons or simply because you cruise for the ship and not the port. I don't judge you for either one. My comment about it not being a sin was more about the greater state of the world and humanity -- that people suffer everywhere and it's not a sin to enjoy life in spite of that. This is fair. I suppose I'd argue that a "functioning government" doesn't necessarily matter when your murder rate is 3x higher than a place where there isn't supposedly such a thing. But I see your point.

Usually, yes. But this one last year actually hit Bermuda!

There's no way you'd be kept off a ship for a (US) misdemeanor. I'd also venture to say there are convicted felons on every cruise. It's just not that particularly uncommon. I'm no expert in the justice system, but I also imagine some violent ex-cons -- and certainly anyone on probation -- aren't able to hold passports, so their ability to go anywhere too interesting on a cruise would be limited to begin with.

This is true. There are people suffering everywhere. There are people within miles of where you live. In general, people enjoy life while others suffer. That's no sin. That, as well as empathy, is part of humanity. So much of this is misconceptions and assumptions. Granted there's active violence going on in Haiti, but the murder rate in Jamaica is 3x what it is in Haiti -- in fact, it's the highest murder rate in the world. But none of us think twice about getting off in Jamaica for a cruise because YA MON JAMAICA IS PARADISE while Haiti is a dirty slum. But in general in all of these places, the violence takes place far from where tourists go. These countries depend on tourism for their economy. They are very careful to keep violence, poverty, etc. hidden from view.

Yes you're correct. I didn't realize you were getting the drink package. If you drink regular coffee vs. specialty coffees, you can get that in the park cafe.

Ehh... I'm not going to give you some angry "WATCH YOUR WILD CHILDREN" answer a lot of Scrooges on these boards will (I have kids that age as well and believe the presence of lots of kids is a given when cruising Royal), but I wouldn't leave my kid at the pool for that amount of time. If you were to do it, I'd say they would need to have a phone on them that's connected to ship internet and you would have the same so they could reach you if needed. Pool or not, that's probably a bit long to leave a kid that age on the ship. It has less to do with their own maturity and trustworthiness and more to do with them simply being unaccompanied. Things can happen that have nothing to do with it being their fault, particularly on the pool deck.

You make an entirely different point here which I fully agree with. As far as variety and choices, I definitely boast what people are going to find on cruises. One of the biggest reasons why we choose to go on cruises vs. other vacations is because anyone can basically eat whatever they want, whenever they want. If one kid is hungry at 12 and the other isn't until 1:30, who cares? One parent can stay at the pool with one kid while the other runs the first kid to the WJ. The other can go to El Loco later (I don't know if you have kids, but any time multiple kids don't have to eat from the same place at the same time, it's a massive benefit for anyone taking care of them). My kids also love that if we're walking through the Promenade they can snag a piece of pizza and sit down for a few as a mid-afternoon snack. When walking through Central Park I always peek into the Cafe to see if something catches my eye. And, as I said, we frequently visit both the MDR and WJ during dinner. That is absolutely a selling point of cruises. It's one of the things I love the most. It's the 5-star meal that I don't want people to have expectations for.

This whole thing is insane. Sickening, obviously, but as someone (like all of you) who has taken a number of cruises I'm trying to imagine how and where you'd even hide a camera in those tiny staterooms that would go unnoticed but also have an angle that would capture anything this guy wants to see. It seems like even if it worked once or twice, pretty quickly someone would find it. There's just not that many areas within a stateroom that go unseen for very long.

I agree. It's not that I want to influence people's opinions. It's more so that a lot of people still have the perception that high-quality (even fancy) meals are a big part of the cruising experience. We're going on Odyssey later this month with a few families. One of them hasn't been on a cruise in a long time, so I've told the dad who I'm friends with not to get too excited about the food. Not that it's bad or that everything is going to be awful -- just not to have high expectations. The food quality isn't horrible, it's just not a reason go to on a cruise anymore.

I was a little surprised but moving it indoors was clearly an intentional change to at least avoid wind and natural elements. Obviously the Aqua Theater is something they really like and has more reward than risk because they didn't make any adaptations to Utopia or, as far as we know, Oasis 7. We usually go to the Aqua show twice during our cruises so this is something I've noticed as well. With diving, it's doesn't seem to be a matter of a member of the cast participating in the show or not -- it's literally that particular dive. I don't know how it works, but you'll often see a diver walk out onto the platform or diving board, look out above the crowd and then walk back behind the stage rather than dive. There's some kind of go/no-go signal they get as to whether they should dive or not. I don't know if it's based on conditions, position of the other cast members, etc. Sometimes they come out and dive, sometimes they come out and walk back, and sometimes they don't come out at all.

Yeah, we do this as well sometimes for a couple seasons. One, sometimes my kids want to see a little more variety than what's on the kids menu in the MDR so we'll head up there after. Second, sometimes we want more dessert options. It seems kind of gluttonous but honestly there's not a ton to do right after dinner so it's a fun thing to go up to the Windjammer, grab dessert, and then walk around the top deck outside a bit.